The Great Puzzle to solve The Great Debate!

Wow! You guys are really making your points.

"LoL your not labeling them as 1 single thing....except you just did label them as 1 phenomenon with an extra terrestrial origin to boot."

Indeed, I did. Don't confuse the word phenomenon and thing. It is indeed one great phenomenon. One phenomenon with probably different origins. But, it's evident, that most of what we've studied so far, seem to not be of an earthly origin. Intelligent alien life? I don't know. Inter-dimensional beings? I don't know. Humans from the future? I don't know. But, it's one great phenomenon none the less. Don't make me repeat the same thing throughout this thread please.

However, we do have the oaths and claims from some very credible sources(Policemen, military units, astronaughts even) that some of these are of intelligent alien life.

Another hard to debunk sighting

Also, there's another well documented case about a sighting by 2 pilots I believe, in the 50s or 60s. I'm not quite certain. I believe it was either near the South Pole, or North Pole and either Mike Singh, or Internos opened up a thread about the sighting. I tried searching for it...but couldn't find it. Anyone knows what I'm referring to? It's another one of those classic cases that has yet to be debunked.

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


There are a few decent cases. There certainly isnt "sheer volume" of good cases or good evidence.

Take the millions of sightings, testimonies, abduction reports, etc

No i wont take the "millions" becuase 99% of that is extremely weak and contains mostly anecdotes.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by sdrawkcabII
What I would like, is for people to acknowledge what is happening.

I think most, if not all, people acknowledge that something is happening, the difference is that some people say that what is happening is related to intelligent extraterrestrial beings, some people say that they are inter-dimensional beings, some say they are common things seen under uncommon conditions, debunkers would not go to the trouble of debunking something that does not exist.

I really do not understand what do you want, it looks like you want people to do what they already do, talk about the sightings.

reply to post by ArMaP


If i understand it right what he is trying to do is say is that most of the time people blatantly say someone is lying when they have a claim. He is saying 100% of these people can't be lying 100% of the time. 100% of the claims cannot be fake 100% of the time. I think that's the point of this thread.

reply to post by DaMod


Exactly! Thanks!

I'm not only dealing with lying, but other speculation, that the person may be mistaken, or hallucinating, or pulling a prank. Which are all scientific explanations, however, out of all the cases and testimonies to date, it's highly unlikely that 100% of these cases are off their mark. Meaning, there has to be something to this.

I'm saying, looking at one individual case & pointing out that the person may be hallucinating, or that they're lying, misinformed, etc is quite rational, granted that the evidence isn't concrete. But, when looking at all the cases together, it's nearly impossible that at least one of them is not the real deal.

Sure, we do not know which ones are conclusively genuine. We will always have our doubts, some of us. But, because of the numbers, I am certain genuine cases of something(extra terrestrial, interdimensional, etc) have stared us directly in the face already. We may not be able to point to it & say, this is the real deal, and that day may soon come. But, I am convinced that out of all those millions(yes, I said it again, millions) of cases...somebody had something right.

And that's all I'm saying really.

Thanks for all the input guys. Regardless of what everyone believes, I have a great respect for the ATS family. Without you, this discussion wouldn't even take place.

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


where are you getting your figures of "millions"?

and how many of those catergorically claim that what they saw was of extra terrestrial origin? someone reports lights in the sky and you want to include that as evidence of extra terrestrial/interdimensional craft? no way sorry

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by sdrawkcabII

 

where are you getting your figures of "millions"?

and how many of those catergorically claim that what they saw was of extra terrestrial origin? someone reports lights in the sky and you want to include that as evidence of extra terrestrial/interdimensional craft? no way sorry

Can you prove that they weren't of ET origin? The door swings both ways.. Neither side can prove anything, that is the reason we debate the subject so much. You cannot prove anything you say just like we cannot prove anything we say, that is why it is called evidence and not proof. Even though people have been convicted of murder with far less evidence than the UFO community has.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by DaMod]

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by sdrawkcabII

 

where are you getting your figures of "millions"?

and how many of those catergorically claim that what they saw was of extra terrestrial origin? someone reports lights in the sky and you want to include that as evidence of extra terrestrial/interdimensional craft? no way sorry

You still seem to be missing the point. Do you have any idea how many UFO sightings occur each year? Between the years of 1953 to 1968, it's estimated that the USA alone had about 1000 sightings. Now, I am not certain how much sightings occur yearly worldwide, but I have some ideas. It's estimated that in the US, there are maybe 500-900 sightings per year. In Canada alone, in 2003, there were 673 reported sightings. And I know for a fact, that most sightings world wide are not reported. There is no info on the web about yearly sightings world wide to my knowledge, but I'll use some guesstimation and I'm only going with the small numbers here. Keep in mind that we're not even dealing with abduction cases, whistle blowers, etc. Also, it's estimated that around the world, 60% of sightings are not reported. The numbers start looking much greater now.

My belief that we have millions of cases is solely a belief. I have no real facts to support that. But, I believe we may have millions of cases, because, counting the reported sightings from a few countires yields large results...and if we increase that number by about 60%, we're looking at hundreds of thousands of cases, maybe a million. If we now add abduction cases and what have you...& consider the possibility of UFO cases in man's early times(I'm not even talking caveman here or Before Christ, I'm talking 12th Century, etc)...the numbers are immense.

Also, the mistake you're making, is confusing the word "alien" and "UFO." I never said we have millions of alien cases, I said we have millions of UFO cases.

"someone reports lights in the sky and you want to include that as evidence of extra terrestrial/interdimensional craft?"

No my friend, if someone reports lights in the sky, and the source is not identified, I class it as an Unidentified Flying Object. Whether it's extra terrestrial, interdimensional or Earthly in nature is unknown. All unidentified cases are considered evidence when dealing with Unidentified Flying Objects. That doesn't mean they're alien & that's not what I'm saying. So now, I'll say it again, and I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt this time. With all these thousands of UFO cases(I'm talking all cases here, from sightings, to whistle blower to abductees), it seems very unlikely that, 100% of these cases are hogwash.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by sdrawkcabII]

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


Yeah get him! SICK HIM!! Mess up his hair so bad his mama never recognize him! Cut him so bad he wish you no cut him so bad! Make him say hello to your little friend! We all now know where the bear does number 2!! Yeah how do you like that! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

He might understand the conversation now..


[edit on 21-4-2009 by DaMod]

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


i come here for the lols and you dont disappoint.

so why do you have alien abductions in the same pile of evidence as your lights in the sky UAP?



[edit on 21-4-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by sdrawkcabII
Also, the mistake you're making, is confusing the word "alien" and "UFO." I never said we have millions of alien cases, I said we have millions of UFO cases.

That is what is making me even more confused that I usually am.

I do not remember seeing people saying that there are no UFO sightings, or that the people that say that they saw a light in the sky are lying. They may disregard what they say and call them something less polite, but they only say that they are lying when the people say that they saw strange, alien looking craft.

reply to post by ArMaP


I hear you loud and clear.

But, that post was in direct response to Yeti01. He's misinterpreting what I'm saying, in that, just because we have millions, or as he would put it, thousands of UFO sightings, doesn't mean that all of them are of alien beings. I believe most of them have Earthly origin, but also, because of the vast numbers, & a few other factors, I believe that a few of them are indeed genuine and are extra terrestrial in nature.

The reason I included abduction cases with UFOs, is because of the general consensus. Most people believe some UFOs are alien in nature. I certainly believe so. A few others believe what is abducting these people(if they are being abducted) are interdimensional beings or even demons. And these are all the same speculations put into UFOs as well. They are part of the same phenomenon. From whistle blowers, to UFOs, to abduction cases, they all appear to be related, whether it's aliens, interdimensional beings, time travellers, or even demons. They have the same speculations associated with them. Hence the reason I consider it one great phenomenon. I'm not saying they are the same things and are caused by the same beings. No one knows...but the general consensus remains the same.

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


they all appear to be related? just 2 posts ago you were saying a light is unidentified and you were not saying either way what it is.

They are part of the same phenomenon.

Now you are connecting alien abductions with your unidentified light in the sky. Only in your mind are they part of the same phenomenon. You just so badly want them to be related and to have a "mountain" of "millions" of cases to help support your own belief system.


If as you have conceded alot of ufo reports will be natural or man made why include them in your evidence?. The reason ufologists like to do this is to try make it appear there is more evidence than there actually is.

a whole lot of nothing is still nothing.


[edit on 22-4-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
they all appear to be related? just 2 posts ago you were saying a light is unidentified and you were not saying either way what it is.

No one knows what the unidentified light is. No one knows for certain what the big spinning disc in the sky is. The general consensus(look it up) is that UFOs are alien in nature. The same goes for alien abductions...hence the reason I say they are of the same phenomenon. It doesn't matter if people believe they're aliens, interdimensional beings, time travellers, demons and back engineered alien craft made on Earth...they all fall under the category of unknown. While some people believe they may be time travellers or what have you, most people believe they are of intelligent alien origin, whether it be abductions or lights in the sky that move like no man-made machine does. The general consensus is, they are alien in origin. Do you see the relation with the two now? Do you understand? Because if you don't, I'm not going to try to explain that any further. maybe someone else can put forward to you what I've been trying to say a few posts back.

They are part of the same phenomenon.

Yes, they are!

Now you are connecting alien abductions with your unidentified light in the sky. Only in your mind are they part of the same phenomenon. You just so badly want them to be related and to have a "mountain" of "millions" of cases to help support your own belief system.

Am...no! I said it a little while ago...the general consensus of alien abductions and strange lights in the sky are that they are of intelligent alien origin. They may not be related though, until we can prove without a doubt what they are, we do not know for certain. But, we hold a general view of the matter. And in that general view...they are related. You know what...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's remove abduction cases from files. To hell with them! There is still moutains of cases that does support my own belief system.

If as you have conceded alot of ufo reports will be natural or man made why include them in your evidence?.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall here. I believe most UFO reports are of natural, Earthly origin(lying included), because I find it hard to believe that ALL UFO reports are of alien origin. Just like I find it hard to believe that ALL UFO reports are NOT of alien origin. However, if the case is studied and it remains UNIDENTIFIED...it becomes part of the evidence for this unknown phenomenon(whether it's interdimensional, alien[as most people believe], or time travellers) which I stated. A UFO report doesn't automatically fall in as evidence...if however, it remains unexplained, it does!

The reason ufologists like to do this is to try make it appear there is more evidence than there actually is.

There is more evidence than you'd like to think exists. And personally, I don't care what ufologists do. I do not consider myself to be one. For your sake, we can take out all the abduction cases, and most of the UFO report cases, and we'll still have a few very good cases, that to date, no man has
been able to explain as Earthly in nature.

a whole lot of nothing is still nothing.

If nothing is what you see, I ask that you consider hiring another helper to read my posts for you. Because, clearly you're blind, and the current helper apparently only sees what s/he wants to see.