MS Windows is a threat to National Security.

MS WINDOWS IS A THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY

www.dailypress.com

All of these security holes exist because of one thing: Microsoft Windows

The proprietary code flaws in Windows that create these security holes have been known for at least a decade, but still, almost every business, every government agency, every branch of the military, and the vast majority of individual Americans, continue to use this phenomenally inferior operating system for their day-to-day work.

"The U.S. Navy uses Windows to run systems on nuclear carriers and subs"

(visit the link for the full news article)


Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 15-4-2009 by mrwupy]

I have had alot of dealings at least with documents and government secrecy but please tell me you morons at DOD didnt do this "The U.S. Navy uses Windows to run systems on nuclear carriers and subs".

I know a one of the only hackers alive that ever hacked mozilla. If this is true about windows being on Navy Government Computers then its no wonder you have so many leaks.

Do you have any idea what this means as far as a breach of national security but alone what someone could do to get a security clearance by knowing how to manuiplate windows source code?

Please tell me this isnt true.

Falcon


www.dailypress.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

The army is so retarded. Don't put your computers on the net with sensible information!

And don't put your NUCLEAR SUBS on internet with Windows..... the life on earth is at stake here...

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Vitchilo]

The systems actually interfacing with weapons and such are proprietary military ASICs. Some stuff like supply does run on windows. Some "special" sensors use various UNIX derived OSs. There has been a big move in military contracting towards COTS. Commerical Off The Shelf hw is cheaper to build and upgrade. When I was in the navy, our sub's sonar and fire control used obscure outdated languages developed in the 60s, that barely anyone could understand. You had to know the machine's low level digital code to manually input with switches to "talk" to it. No keyboards. The OS was loaded with a gigantic magentic tape. More like a film reel than a hard drive. Probably held 64k.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Schaden]

You only have to consider the Conficker worm to realise how vulnerable our defences are. It's infected Royal Navy shore establishments, ships & submarines, it's left French military aircraft grounded when flight plans were infected & has caused problems with the Bundeswehr (German Army) too.

Hard to believe our armed forces use Windows. Brings a degree of standardisation I suppose, but at what cost ? If they migrate to something else it'd only be a matter of time before that got targeted too.

Better the devil you know ?

You can't really think that the government use Windows can you?

They'll have their own operating system, and "internet" or network structure, totally off the grid from ours i'm sure.

Originally posted by Lister87
You can't really think that the government use Windows can you?

They'll have their own operating system, and "internet" or network structure, totally off the grid from ours i'm sure.

lol

No they don't - I've been in the military; including 'Classified' machines are Windows based in one form or another. What separates them is the networks they are connected to are segregated. So while the machines may handle nuke data, they are sitting on classified networks that don't have any outside access or wifi access, at least I hope, can't really tell who has what down the chain.

When I left back in 05 they were using Unix based systems as well, so they are learning.

And don't put your NUCLEAR SUBS on Internet with Windows

Someone explain to me how you connect to the Internet while cruising 200 feet below the surface of the ocean.

I have problems just getting a WIFI connection.

The systems on nuclear sub do not connect to the Internet.
There may by in port connections for the crew to use when in-port and used for departments like supply or engineering to to maintain the ship.

But these do not connect to ships functions like weapons or controls.

Even the surface ships have separate systems for the Internet and in all cases they would be behind hard firewalls. No connections with the Internet and weapons or other vital systems.

Most large navy ships have a internal net that is separate from the Internet

The OS on vessels may be windows based but in order to release ANY ordinance there are on-site PHYSICAL redundancies in place. As was said by a couple of posters the ships systems are not attached to the WWW.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by djvexd]

reply to post by falcon


This right here

"The U.S. Navy uses Windows to run systems on nuclear carriers and subs"

is the scariest thing I have ever heard. You think they would run Lenux, if they actually gave 2 poops for what they are doing out there.



[edit on 15-4-2009 by pluckynoonez]

Maybe due to Cost Cutting they use Windows over Apple OSX

Seriously though I thought Agencies like the NSA and others were pushing SE Linux

Originally posted by Vitchilo
The army is so retarded. Don't put your computers on the net with sensible information!

And don't put your NUCLEAR SUBS on internet with Windows..... the life on earth is at stake here...

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Vitchilo]

The Military uses a classified, private version of the Internet called the SIPRNet (sipper-net), the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, and typically (rarely) tunnels encrypted sipper packets of NIPRNet (nipper-net). Anything of importance uses SIPR. Even things like war games and simulations utilize it.

You're not going to see anyone hacking into SIPRNet any time soon. When you are dealing with networks this secure, it doesn't matter what type of OS you are using. Your only vulnerabilities would be from people on the inside, or people who had physical access to the machines - in which case, even Linux's security is easily bypassed.

ROFLMFAO

AJAHJAHAHAHDSHFSHDFSF

Oh my god.
This is the American government, for you.


If the American government was so damn smart, they'd use a open-sourced based operating system like LINUX FOR THEIR CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS, and a OS like WINDOWS FOR UTILIZING NON INTERNET BASED COMMUNICATIONS.

Ugh.

AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, I HATE YOU!

The article talks about the electricity grid getting hacked. Not any military computers. I think it's a bit sensationalistic to comment on carriers and subs using windows, since any classified systems are not connected to the internet. And anything really classified is on a different network with crypto so strong it would take the NSA itself, months or years to decode.

Originally posted by falcon
I have had alot of dealings at least with documents and government secrecy but please tell me you morons at DOD didnt do this "The U.S. Navy uses Windows to run systems on nuclear carriers and subs".

I'd say that Windows is decent for most applications. As for it being used on a sub, how is that different from it being used to run any other system? I don't think some hacker is gonna get desktop control on a sub and even if so, what would be the objective? Servers in dry dock would have schematics, the sub wouldn't have anything. On a sub maybe they use windows for systems and cooling and so on, nothing which if compromised would sink the ship or the nation. Windows is a tool and a decent one.

I am sure launch systems are not routed through MS Windows so let's clarify the fear factor here. I do not think the US DOD is full of morons.

I know a one of the only hackers alive that ever hacked mozilla. If this is true about windows being on Navy Government Computers then its no wonder you have so many leaks.

I would not assume that you know how many hackers have hacked what. Such things are generally known to either one person (and their friends maybe) or those who get hacked. Or just the one person if they are good and never tell anyone. Anyway, Mozilla's source code was released and that made it better, actually. Firefox is now the toughest browser (the latest, patched version) to trip up according to recent hacking contests. Mac OS X got pwned in like ten seconds.

I do agree with your thread, btw. Just clarifiying as to what is real and not, and also what can be done. Point is this: Open code becomes more secure, which is why I have a whole thread on ATS advocating XP being seized by the US citizens and forced open. After Vista, there is no apology which M$ can offer this nation, imo. They have a responsibility to America, before the pockets of their shareholders. Hell their "shareholders" are the whole reason the business model is so horked: They constantly need to produce new crap for consumption. They could easily have tuned XP and slimmed it down to be even better, but no, they decided to scuttle it.

Do you have any idea what this means as far as a breach of national security but alone what someone could do to get a security clearance by knowing how to manuiplate windows source code?

Well it's more about knowing the exploits in the servers or desktops so the box on the submarine running a coolant system is actually a pretty good tool in the appropriate application (it probably will run xp without crashing for months on end)

I think the better mental understanding of 'hacking' involves the ways to socially engineering that mouse-click through more subtle means. So if I want sub plans, it's probably more effective to simply target an employee with clearance and socially manuever them into giving you power over their password or whatever --Social exploits are far more effective for targeted actions imo. Just theory of course. I am sure clearance folks are properly vetted but human hacking is how most of the best infiltrators work. See War Games and also true life hacking stories. It's amazing how much easier it is to hack a person than a machine. The mind has no firewall, as a great man once said.

One would assume government facilities would use open-source operating systems if only for the cost saving abilities.

But no, there are many facilities and agencies that still use windows.
... yes, that scares me.


As for ships and equipment.
Don't be naive, the computers may run windows, but the automated systems are run by PLCs and PICs, as it is with most automated systems.
The instructions may be sent to the PIC's and PLC's from a Microsoft OS though.


Yes, most government databases are on Unix based OS's.
Most servers around the world are...

... but it's the client end machines that we're talking about mostly.



Personally, I don't know why we're still hooked on windows.
The only thing windows has that free operating systems don't is there are allot of video-games made specifically for windows.

... why that should matter to governments and businesses is beyond me.

Sorry for the all caps just the way the article came out didnt mean to post it that way. Seriously the Army at least as far as I still know still uses Linex to keep all of its information safeguarded as far as how to hack into a sub thats under water you have to have a pretty powerful highly modified parabolic ear and even then to remote hack why it was under water I would say would be very difficult but not impossible.

You would also have to have the sub schematics to know where to remote hack to but still. Many years ago frontline did this special on hacking of the U.S. Power Grid in 2002 and how it could be done remotely as far as SIPRANET I know SIPRANET can be hacked it was already done once that I know of. This artical is starting to bring back memories of the Y2k crisis and what lead up to it and why the fed was so spooked.

As memory serves Bill clintion why he was still in office decided to save money he brought in foreign computer experts to fix so called problems that were going to result from the Y2k crisis. And it turned out that later that the navy did a little investigation and found out that all of those workers from china and india planted spy bugs on all the networking when they were brought in.

The more I think about this the more that comes back as to what the fed was so deathly scared to death about people finding out about on this issue. If I remember correcly the FBI or someone or some group in it tried to nail charges on bill but if I remember correctly it was covered up rather quick because the fed couldnt risk having that kind of information coming out about what they had let happen.

I wonder recently the former director of the FBI now works for the Saudi's prince bandar to be exact I wonder if it was a pay off to keep his mouth shut about this? No offense to Mr. Freed I read his book and I know other things that arnt in the book surrounding this and other things bill and bush were involved in still.

If this is true it would explain alot of about a number of other things going on that ive seen over the years with the feds movements on servers for one.

Falcon