Area 51 de-classified. Wow.

abcnews.go.com...

www.latimes.com...

i.gizmodo.com...

According to UFO lore, Area 51, near Nevada State Route 375, otherwise known as "Extraterrestrial Highway," is where the Pentagon has, for decades, stored frozen extraterrestrials and recovered alien spacecraft. In the movie "Independence Day," it was where the heroes led a final attack against alien invaders.

But now that the CIA has started to declassify top secret programs developed at Area 51, former military officers and engineers are beginning to shed some light on the enigmatic airfield and give the UFOlogists some new information to consider.

""If anything, he emphasized, "We were the UFOs."

In reality, he said, compared to previous positions with frequent missions, "Area 51 was the most boring place I ever worked."

No aliens, no spacecraft from far-flung planets, no underground passageways, he said.

The only underground area he recalled was beneath a nuclear testing site at neighboring Jackass Flats. ""

......what previous areas did have UFOs and Aliens?????????

Related

Didnt Bob Lazar go on about Oxcart and was labelled a complete fraud????????





[edit on 10-4-2009 by stewartw2]

[edit on 10-4-2009 by stewartw2]

[edit on 10-4-2009 by stewartw2]

[edit on 10-4-2009 by stewartw2]

I have thought this for a long time...

Let the public go on with their thoughts and then the gov't says it didnt happen or it wasnt aliens. Then the Gov't throws in a few hints that maybe some stuff was real, and others werent. Then one day they say, "We are sick of UFO stories, lets end em" and tell the world it was all a fake.

I dont believe anything any Government says anyways. Its truly Yellow Journalism and in the public's hands

I wouldn't believe anything anyone from NASA or the CIA says about UFOs. They're the ones who are "in-charge" of the coverup.

By the way, Bob Lazar apparently did his reverse engineering at a base to the south of Area 51.

Bob Lazar took numerous lie detector tests, passing without a flinch.

George Bush said terrorists attacked the Twin Towers, do you believe that?

Gullibility and the sad reality....

I know which I believe, Do you?

Don't let ignorance be bliss.

"Harry A. Martin, 77, who supervised the fueling of the spy planes for four years, said his time at Area 51 was also one of the highlights of his career. I was real proud of what we accomplished," he said. "I'd never worked with a group of people who were better than those."

As for the aliens and UFOs, "people have an imagination," he said. "We laughed at it."

abcnews

Stupid geezer. If anything, he and his goons are the crazy ones. I wouldn't believe anything from naza or that puppet obama.

[edit on 10-4-2009 by DEM0N]

The evidence against Lazar is conclusive. No degree at MIT, unable to engage in discussions about physics, evasive about his academic and professional past... It's amazing that fables like this continue to echo on in ufology when there are so many more compelling evidenciary sources available.

2This is jsut a nice cover up , thatts all. Thier must be a reason, why the government expanded groom lakes perimiter, a decade ago..and its not becuase some people with night vision and binocualrs were watching..
ever watch history channel, when they have area 51 shows on? How o yuo explain the lights that wizz around the moutnian tops, and fly at speeds that make the SR 71 look like limp horse.. explain that.
oh, and their must be a good reason im sure, why the people working thier, were shuttled in ona bus undercover daily, and take planes that are ONLY for them.
this is jsut a cover up. I think, area 51 was moved, they knew word was gunan get out publicly, so this is a way of trying to hide secrets..

It entirely possible for someone to have worked at A-51, dreamland, whatever and not know anything about aliens or anti-gravity vehicles, while they were operating at the base. We know the need to know for this subject is extreme. Just because Joe Bob worked at A-51, and didn't see anything weird, means nothing.

Go to a building like the Pentagon. There are hundreds of rooms with cypher locks on the door. Unless you work in that area, you have no business to know what's behind the door. I imagine the same goes for A-51 and other research facilities. There is tons of support staff that don't need to see anything. Even a lot of scientists there don't need to have access to projects they're not involved with.

Originally posted by spaminferno
The evidence against Lazar is conclusive. No degree at MIT, unable to engage in discussions about physics, evasive about his academic and professional past... It's amazing that fables like this continue to echo on in ufology when there are so many more compelling evidenciary sources available.

The extent in which the now released information corroborates with Bob Lazar is ASTOUNDING. I would say this brings other Ufologists who have denounced him into question-reading the LA times article-Lazar is owed an apology.

There are complete threads about bob lazaar but although many claim he's a fraud there are some facts that somewhat support his statements...

It was claimed for years that he wasn't even being truthful about working at los alamos . We now know that was true.. He's even on the front page of one of the local newspapers back then with a "rocket car" he built. There are coworkers there that later came forward claiming to have worked with him there.. Plus, and people didn't realize this for years, his name was in the stupid phonebook!

-ChriS

reply to post by ziggy1706


We all want to believe stuff alien goes on there-but it highly possible, infact likely that none does. In this case the 'coverup-story' is credible in itself.
Perhaps, and I am sure it has been suggested before numerous times, Area 51 is a cover for somewhere we aint even heard of.

reply to post by spaminferno


You know how damn simple it is for a member of the government to erase educational records, your name, your social security #, your life(physical and personal)?

Well, considering they are the government - I'd say not very hard.

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
You know how damn simple it is for a member of the government to erase educational records, your name, your social security #, your life(physical and personal)?

Probably, and that's why we must not be fooled by any.

I too could pretend I hold knowledge and that the government erased my data. That would be a fraud, but if it were 100% true, you couldn't spot the difference either.

Exactly. We have reason to question Bob Lazaar's story because of the nature of what he, himself, claims the government is doing to his identity and because of how easy it would be to lie about it.

IMO, This stance would more or less be expected anyway just from an ideal skeptical standpoint. I believe skepticism is a necessary and constructive tool for finding the truth. The problem is that this guy's story was just way too far out in left field for most people to believe at the time he came public.

But despite all that, and despite all the people that have come forward to try and debunk this guy's story and claim him as a fraud, there are alot of verifiable facts that suggest he is at least telling the truth with regards to some of his story. There is no reason to write off this guy when alot of what he claimed we are now realizing is true.. One of the biggest debunkers out there that has really attacked Bob Lazaar and labeled him as a huge fraud is Stan Friedman (Nuclear physicist, lecturer, famous skeptic and ufologist).. You can hear his side of the story here:



He believes Bob lied about the whole thing.
But what he doesn't talk about is what we CAN verify as being truthful with regards to Bob Lazaar's story. Stan Friedman just doesn't belive that the government could possibly wipe away this guy's entire past without leaving some traces of his past that can't be removed by the government..(phone books, public documents, old newspaper stories, etc.)

But, in fact, alot of these records really DO remain and prove that Bob Lazaar isn't making this all up.

This video is a great clip from "UFO Hunters" on History Channel talking about Area51 and bringing up the topic of Bob Lazaar at 1:00 into the clip.



We have no way of knowing the truthfulness of Bob's entire story, but what we do know is that we can't just assume somebody is a fraud because a bunch of debunkers want us to.

The facts should be able to speak for themselves. I honestly believe that. And no matter how the government might have tried to erase Bob Lazaar's past, there would always be some traces they couldn't have erased (hypothetically speaking).

This is also a man that has passed multiple lie detector tests and shows no obvious signs of being dishonest or lying that I can see (there are some ways of telling). I mean, the newspaper article talked about in the second video (on the front page) shows Bob Lazaar, names him, and even sais that he's a physicist with Los Alamos National Laboratories.... That pretty much contradicts/disproves Stan's entire shpeel in the first video does it not? (Besides the fact that the guy was in the Los Alamos Ntl. Laboratories phonebook).

Not only that, but (and this was mentioned in the second vid) supposedly there've been multiple Los Alamos ex-coworkers of Bob Lazaar that have come forward saying he worked with them there on secret projects for the government. The problem is we cant' verify that because the people supposedly wanted their identies kept secret (and understandably so).

-ChriS

[edit on 11-4-2009 by BlasteR]

hmm last I heard the area formerly known as 51/groom lake/dreamland, was moved somewhere in the whitesands area in NM allegedly by some old nuclear testing facility.
As far as Lazaar goes, You know how bad it would make the entire UFOology community look to find publicly that a name like Richard Hoagland never worked or consulted NASA in any facet, or to find that say, Tesla was really a prankster, or any other leading name in this cause? Lazaar is just as great a leader in this community, Make him look stupid, and we feel stupid for listening to him for YEARS! Credibility is ALWAYS the first thing destroyed in these sorts of things. As much as Lazaar has debunked himself, he has done so without bias, or prejudice. He will be the first to say "This is BS!" but in that same light, he is also the first to say "I cannot explain this.. its not of earthy origin." Now you take the retards on that history channel show with the idiot that edits UFO magazine and always has to have his sunglasses on, who jumps at airplanes with the UFO banner.... THATS not someone you want on your side.Lazaar on the other hand.. yeah. You really want him, and Hoagland and so on.

Originally posted by stanlee
hmm last I heard the area formerly known as 51/groom lake/dreamland, was moved somewhere in the whitesands area in NM allegedly by some old nuclear testing facility.

That is a common misconception I think.. If anything, Area 51 is actually in a period of rapid growth and expansion of base facilities and infrastructure. All the satellite photos (even google earth) seem to confirm this too..
My very first post ever on ATS a while back was with regards to new satellite photos of some of these new area 51 buildings and structures.

I think the google earth images are actually newer though and they show even more growth and expansion.

Groom Lake is too ideal, too remote, too perfect a location for all activities to cease. The government has a vested interest too in keeping the base active. Over the years the government has continued to shell out huge sums of money for purchasing surrounding land near the base so people can't hike up certain hills/mountains around the base and take photos/videos of base activities.
The only really good way to view the base these days is by doing what the UFO hunters did in the area 51 episode. They hiked for a whole day (carrying all their equipment) to the top of Tikaboo peak (spelling?) which is about 10 miles from the base but still allows a clear shot of all the runways and main hangars. You can actually pull out quite a bit of detail with the proper imaging and filming equipment.

The inaccessibility of tikaboo peak make most people stray from even thinking of hiking up there with all their gear and imaging equipment. That's really the idea. It's also pretty rough, pretty dangerous terrain to navigate even for an experienced hiker.

At McCarran airport, there is a restricted terminal known as the "Janet Terminal" which still makes multiple daily flights to and from Area51. They fly unmarked 737 airliners with the distinctive red stripe in and out of McCarran and they all use the "Janet" call sign. The tail numbers beneath the horizontal stabilizers have been researched and have been proved to be owned and operated by the government (no additional information is really given) .
The point here is that the janet terminal is still very active, and these aircraft have been videotaped in high definition coming and going from area 51 runways as recently as a few months ago (they are unmistakable aircraft too) when the "UFO Hunters" filmed the Area 51 episode.

What you would see, if you could see Area 51 right now, is a top secret air base bustling with activity. If nothing else, it is more active than it has ever been.

The government DOES have land in and around the groom lake facility that they have used and probably still use for weapons testing. But other air force bases surrounding Area51 have become primary testbeds for some of these other classified programs. Edwards AFB has been a testbed for aircraft and aircraft-related technologies for decades. Area51 is basically just Edwards AFB's "estranged cousin" where top secret research and development can be conducted far-removed from the watchful eye of the curious public. The fact that you can still see the base from one of the nearby mountains just means that the government will eventually own that land too. They've been buying up the surrounding land for decades because they probably planned on expanding the base's activities all along (deeming it justifiable to shell out that kind of taxpayer money).

-ChriS

Area 51 is a big place. Being stationed in one section doesn't mean that you would or should know what happens at any other section.

The service personnel who know what's going on are very tight-lipped. Some people can keep secrets.

oops.. I was not thinking of Bob Lazaar in my last response. I apoplogise for that mix up. lol I was thinking of Stanton Friedman. lol. classic debunker, neither pro or con. LMFAO I swear! Im NOT a complete moron.. just partial. lol. sorry again mates.

Originally posted by BlasteR

We have no way of knowing the truthfulness of Bob's entire story, but what we do know is that we can't just assume somebody is a fraud because a bunch of debunkers want us to.

The facts should be able to speak for themselves. I honestly believe that. And no matter how the government might have tried to erase Bob Lazaar's past, there would always be some traces they couldn't have erased (hypothetically speaking).

-ChriS

[edit on 11-4-2009 by BlasteR]

ChriS.. Very well put, and I do agree skepticism is a great driving force. They demand proof, and proof is what WE seek. Spot on.
Im not so much into the whole phone book and newspaper articles, as much as I am into credibility and a name like John Lehr.. well I have to give MUCH credit for that. The guys father is the inventer of the lehr jet (perhaps my spelling is off as valarian root is kicking in) Now.. Both men, father a WORLD reknowned aeronautics, and mechanical engineer, and son, well, only the most noted pilot in the world, CIA, AND test pilot for secret/experimental aircraft, People trusted by damn near every bloody government organisation on the planet (ok thats stretching)
Point is.. a name like John lehr says its true.. I believe one can take that to the bank. Information like he gave about Lazaar would RUIN his name, career, pension, EVERYTHING> yet he confirms ALL of what Lazaar stated. I am not trying to sway you, but there are times when even the most far fetched things can be truth.. as far as one making others disappear.. well, I have learned this much. If Hollywood tells tales of such things... There is usually about 10% fact backing them

Originally posted by tezzajw
Area 51 is a big place. Being stationed in one section doesn't mean that you would or should know what happens at any other section.

The service personnel who know what's going on are very tight-lipped. Some people can keep secrets.

That's true.
I worked in munitions for over 6 years in the U.S. Air Force and my whole time in the Air Force I only came across one person who was willing to talk about what the base is really like.

This one particular individual (I obviously am not going to give his name) was my supervisor for a while and he was stationed at Nellis AFB at one point during his career. He was actually flown out from Nellis to Area51 on an unmarked, black helicopter to serve a temporary duty assignment at the base. He was completely honest with what he did tell me.. His activites were related to experimental weapons but probably not the kind of scifi craziness most people would normally think about (not to say that kind of technology doesn't exist).

Sometimes the military personnel is actually short-staffed there so they sometimes tap people from multiple different career fields (areas of expertise) to do tasks they probably wouldn't ordinarily do in their normal day to day duties. He said there were an immense amount of civilians there and the whole time he was there none of them said a word to him. He said it was almost "eerie" in how everyone just kept their mouths shut. He, like anyone coming to and from the base, had to sign some kind of security document swearing he wouldn't talk about what went on there. Most of his statements were very general.. He was careful to not get into too much detail. Though, he did talk about what exactly he was working on for whatever reason LOL... I am not going to disclose that though.

-ChriS