F-16s Tracking Stolen Cessna

reply to post by Clairaudience


Sure it does, but you can't just rule out drugs either. He may have loaded some onto the plane, delivered them, and then kept the F-16s occupied by flying on. The F-16s would have had their hands full trying to keep slow enough to stay with him, so they could have missed the drop.

reply to post by Zaphod58


You're right, I'm just asking myself how many have been really caught attempting to deliver drugs via air traffic. There are many that do so for sure, and have big planes, but they sure know what they are doing and won't even get into such situations, are mindful enough to avoid certain security measures, otherwise they wouldn't have the mindfulness to do such business in that sense (involving planes (privately owned) but not stealing them)... On the other hand, I have no idea......

reply to post by Clairaudience


I don't remember all of the details but I remember at least once when a plane was stolen and later caught with a rather large load of drugs on board. So it's happened before, but I don't think it has happened often.

Just read the first page of the thread. Our media says that he is a flight student, and is having psychological problems. He stole the plane from the school where he is training and he had hoped that flying into American air space would get him shot down. What befuddles me, is that if he was really attempting a spectacular Ariel suicide then why wouldn't he just veer towards one of the escorts and make them shoot?


What damage could a cesna do if smashed into a building? Very little.
How many people on that plane would die? 1, the suicidal pilot.

How fast was airforce response? Minutes.
The year proceeding 911, over 60 intercepts were done, within minutes.

How much damage could a commercial airliner do to a building? Quite a bit.
How many people on that plane would die? The pilots, crew and passengers. And anyone in the region where it hit the building.

How fast was the airforce response?

reply to post by king9072


It's damn easy to intercept a plane when you know where it is, and have time to intercept it. Aircraft coming into the US enter the ADIZ zone, which is far enough off the coast that it takes time for them to get into the US. Or they come through Canada, and Canadian Air Force aircraft intercept them.

On 9/11 they were told to launch late, there was confusion over where the aircraft were, and they were already inside US airspace, so they didn't have the time they usually had.

31 year old Yavuz Berke, now calling himself Adam Dylan Leon, claims to have been depressed and suicidal.

He was training as a pilot. For what end?

When aloft in a stolen plane over Missouri he found himself running out of fuel. He says he had planned to be shot down.

Did he try to crash, the easiest way to do yourself in if you are thousands of feet in the air and plan to die in a plane? No. He made a gentle landing by a highway then went off to get some Gatorade.

He has to come up with some story when arrested. This one I find hard to accept at face value.


Mike

I saw this last night on ABC and my first thought was ok there are 2 f-16's following a single engine plane with one man on board. I stay tuned the next thing I know he landed on a highway and ran.

What did he know that caused the U.S. Government to scram 2 F-16's and chase him over 2 states and not shoot him down? He was in violation of U.S. Airspace you dont scram Fighter Jets to chase down a single engine plane.

A helichopper ok maybe a UAV and track him or her without them knowing the military of this country is getting really sloppy these days. Another question is I know the U.S. Military has stationed SAM's along the canadian border why didnt they fire off any Surface to Air Missles at the plane when they knew it was in violation?

Too many questions surround this event to have it just be swept under the rug with in 24 hours. Theres more going on here then meets the eye.

My 2cents for now

Falcon

reply to post by falcon


Name one UAV that is currently in service that carries air to air weapons and could have taken action if necessary.

Helicopters don't intercept aircraft. They don't fly at 14,000 feet where this plane was flying.

Believe it or not fighters are what are used to intercept other aircraft. It doesn't make a BIT of difference if they are single engine Cessnas, 767s, 747s, or other fighters. ANY FIXED WING INTERCEPTION is intercepted by either an F-15 or F-16 (and soon F-22). Period. End of story.

As to what he knew that kept him from getting shot down, NOTHING. IT IS NOT POLICY TO SHOOT DOWN PLANES THAT AREN'T TALKING ON THE RADIO. They intercept, identify, and try to get them on the radio. If they don't answer, and aren't a threat, then they follow them until they land. Once they're on the ground they are grabbed by local law enforcement and interviewed.

If they shot down as many planes as this board wants them to shoot down, we'll have planes falling out of the sky daily. Good god, we used to launch F-15s to intercept someone that wasn't talking to ATC WEEKLY. We'd have them go 1-2 times a week MINIMUM. Should they have shot them all down too?

[edit on 4/7/2009 by Zaphod58]

Man, I predicted that one wrong.


The dude just wanted to end his life? What a way to go out, being shot down by the Air Force.
Man, I could have sworn they would have been touting him as the next Osama Bin Laden by now.
Oh well, can't win them all.

I think this was a dry run for something really bad coming.
Look where the guy is from. He got paid to test for others.
Bad news, this shows middle America could have a rel problem.

reply to post by Bejing


Well then, Bejing....by expanding on your theory, the 'test' failed miserably.

Really, why is an incident like this allowed to be conflated into some nefarious alleged future "plan" of attack??

A Cessna 172, which cruises at about 120Knots....blatantly and obviously enters US Airspace and is intercepted. THAT is what the ADIZ and International border monitoring are designed to detect.

A suicidal goofball in a Cessna 172 is no threat.

Does anyone remember the German citizen who landed a Cessna 150 in Red Square, in Moscow??? (Forget the year...just googly it...)

Or, the suicide in 2002, in Tampa, Florida....again, a Student Pilot in, you guessed it, a Cessna 172, flew himself into the side of an office building. He was the only fatality.

There was another incident in NYC....an instructor and his Student/Airplane Owner who crashed into the upper floors of an apartment building. Again, they were the only fatal casualities, but I believe one resident of the building was injured. At the time of THIS accident they were navigating underneath what is known as 'Class B' Airspace (used to be called the TCA years ago) in VFR conditions....I believe they were legally in a VFR 'corridor' at the time (now no longer legal) and fell victim to poor judgement. Winds aloft, within the artificial 'canyons' of a cities' skyscrapers can be similar to the 'box canyon' effect of normal mountains and valleys.

Point is....it takes a large Airliner to again become a guided missile to create huge damages. It seemed unthinkable on September 10, 2001.

ONLY in hindsight, and in view of so many, many, many suicidal bombing events since, did the extreme 'dedication' of these sick extremist individuals intent on wreaking havoc come to the fore.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Jay-in-AR

 

If you were high, suicidal, or just didn't give a damn you would keep flying. It's happened before many times. The Air Force DOES NOT SHOOT THEM DOWN for ignoring commands.

Why High? If I was high and in that situation first of all it would imediately ruin my high and bring me down. Second Being High doesn't make you how they show it in movies and tv.

I dunno though unless you are talking about hard drugs ( which I've never done) I was REFERing to Meredith.


But yea this is a strange incident to say the least.

reply to post by LucidDreamer85


There have been at least a couple of incidents where a pilot was high in a small plane like this one and did stupid things, like not talking to anyone on the radio and ignoring the intercepting aircraft. They haven't happened often, but they have happened.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Zaphod....you were of course referring to the altitude of the airplane, it's 'height'....and the effects of hypoxia on the pilot at prolonged exposure to the 'high' altitude.....right?

Right??? (nudge...)

The FAA Regs require that pilots above 10,000 feet MSL Cabin Altitude for more than 30 minutes' time must have supplemental Oxygen. Of course, I could be mistaken....I may be confusing FAR Part 121 with FAR Part 91 rules. Rules change so often, and I've spent many decades flying Part 121 --- it is possible that Part 91 Rules allow for altitudes up to 12, 500 MSL without supplemental Oxygen.

In any case, hypoxia is a very real concern, and can be researched by any who are interested in its effects on the Human body.


*edit*....for those who care, early signs of hypoxia may include...bluing of the fingernails...a lack of full cognitive skills, and in some people, a sense of euphoria....in others, a need to sleep....it is really very similar to alcohol intoxication, in a way....except for the fingernails....


[edit on 4/8/0909 by weedwhacker]

Hey guys. I bow to your demonstrably superior knowledge of aircraft, flight, and military procedures.

And yes, I know, this is a conspiracy site where anything and everything is part of some major secret plot.

But ... the examples of students crashing into buildings or the guy who flew into Red Square are very different stories with different motivations.

This guy went up, claims he is suicidal and tired to get shot down, then landed his plane.

We don't have enough material to get a solid picture, but so far his explanation doesn't add up.


Mike

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Bejing

 

Well then, Bejing....by expanding on your theory, the 'test' failed miserably.

You're supose to wackem not smokem!
The dude made it all the way to Missouri! The middle of our food producing states. He is from Turkey. They did not stop him. The bad guys could do it and cause a lot of damange. So there

reply to post by Bejing


He made it all the way to Missouri because he wasn't a threat. The F-16 pilots had him under control the entire time and if they deemed him a threat they could have reacted immediately.

So what if he's from Turkey. You're saying that a Canadian or American couldn't do this too?

Just want to quote myself so I can say 'told you so'

Canadian Turk wants to commit suicide.
Hasn't got the guts to do it.
Steals a plane from his flight school and enters US airspace, hoping they will shoot him down and end his life.
Fuel runs low and still he is allowed to fly on.
He lands and in still not having the guts to end his own life, flees in the fear of a life in prison.

That is basically what the media is saying today.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by king9072

 

It's damn easy to intercept a plane when you know where it is, and have time to intercept it. Aircraft coming into the US enter the ADIZ zone, which is far enough off the coast that it takes time for them to get into the US. Or they come through Canada, and Canadian Air Force aircraft intercept them.

On 9/11 they were told to launch late, there was confusion over where the aircraft were, and they were already inside US airspace, so they didn't have the time they usually had.

They knew the airliners were taken over within minutes, additionally they're commercial airlines which are obviously available on military radar. If it were possible to fool the greatest airforce in the world, simply by turning a transponder off, wouldn't we have already been invaded? Get real. So they knew the planes are taken over, and then obviously know where they are.... and for over an hour not 1 jet is even off the ground?

Yet, here we have a canadian plane, with no transponder (not a commercial jet), which just decided to fly into the states... and its magically intercepted... how did they know where he was? MAGIC? SORCERY?

OF course its magic fool.

reply to post by king9072


king, you should take some time to learn about the realities of Aviation before spouting off.

Military RADAR, you say? Yes, but except for in the vicinity of Air Bases, most Military attention was directed outward, to detect incoming unidentifieds entering the ADIZ.

You also need to undserstand how it was in 2001....as the first events unfolded, there was confusion at the ARTCC. Airliners routinely miss radio calls, transponders can fail. For the controllers, it is inconvenient when a pilot doesn't respond...maybe he is out of range of that sector's antenna, he missed the hand-off to another controller, or the controller forgot.

Awareness is greatly heightened in this day and age, and reactions are much swifter.

A target moving at just about 120Knots that penetrates US Airspace without a Flight Plan is going to be noticed very quickly...and likely not seen as much of a threat. I would presume, as well, that the guy was squawking 1200 (the VFR transponder code) and likely also had altitude reporting, allowing him to be found even easier...because it seems he wanted to be found, so to die in a shoot-down.