Do we need a spiritual leader for 2012 and beyond?

reply to post by kosmicjack


I'm just extremely frustrated because he's putting words in my mouth and completely voiding what I've written; how can you have a debate when one only sees what they want to see?

reply to post by TNT13


I proved to where it doesn't have to be interwined. We can find simalarties in many things. But they are still vastly different as a whole.

Both have totally different thinking and objectives.
This thread is about spirituality NOT RELIGION.

A spiritual leader, does not need to be relgious. Most spiritual people I know who take spirituality seriously are not religious at all and are quite against it. Relgion is a set belief of the one source.

Spirituality comes by wisdom, inspiratoin and from the wolrd.


Reliigion was created by a group or person for people to follow. Spirituality is not about following nor does it imply that you follow anything. Spirituality is individualistic and personal.

reply to post by universe attracts wisdom


Again can you read? Where in did I say any man of Spiritual preference follows religious Guidelines? The fact is that if you are spiritual in the sense you believe in an afterlife. Again ATHEISTS CANNOT BE SPIRITUAL!! I never claimed anyone of spirituality having anything to do with religious guidelines, being spiritual means you are VOID of man made religioins but that you still share the same concept of a apparent AFTERLIFE!!! I haven't stated any other connection between the two other then the fact that both sides believe they are devine enough to go somewhere else after death. Please, Please, Please read before you post again or I'll just repost this.

I agree with what you are saying a Spiritual man is but your missing the fact that the word spirit would hint that you think you have a soul, which would hint at that you think this isn't the only life.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by TNT13]

Originally posted by TNT13
reply to post by universe attracts wisdom

 

Again can you read? Where in did I say any man of Spiritual preference follows religious Guidelines? The fact is that if you are spiritual in the sense you believe in an afterlife. Again ATHEISTS CANNOT BE SPIRITUAL!! I never claimed anyone of spirituality having anything to do with religious guidelines, being spiritual means you are VOID of man made religioins but that you still share the same concept of a apparent AFTERLIFE!!! I haven't stated any other connection between the two other then the fact that both sides believe they are devine enough to go somewhere else after death. Please, Please, Please read before you post again or I'll just repost this.

I agree with what you are saying a Spiritual man is but your missing the fact that the word spirit would hint that you think you have a soul, which would hint at that you think this isn't the only life.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by TNT13]

Right then there is an element yet still vastly different. I'm still baffled why your have such a insatious desire to continously compare two totally different things all the time, merely by a few minor details.

But I'm not religous and for you to say that I am to be honest it's quite insulting. Spiritualism is a totally different concept to relgion. Spiitialism is your own personal journey of your life with your souls purpose. Relgioun is study of principle beliefs that other people created for you to follow. It's also appalling to see you use language to degrade people who are spiritual as being phoney. I'd be surprised you didnt get a warning for that.

Spirituality has always been a personal relationship with the cosmos and you as a being.

Relgion is based on a group who believe in topics of whatever is specific to their beliefs. For example not all relgions believe in an after life. Some believe in reincarnation

Paganism. is not relgion but they believe in an afterlife. Its quite insulting that your degrading spiritualism, to a soiciety led belief system that is calle relgion. Relgion is a form of power and its a statement to the world of what you are believing in. Like your belief could be god, money, fame etc. Spiritualism detest this nonsense and has no simalarity what so ever Relgion denotes fear. Spiritualism does not. Relgion is non personal, spiritualism is all about being personal

I really don't see why your trying to compare them, in fact I don't even know why your doing it at all.


It's like trying to compare black and white. You can't yet they are colours, but they are not remotely simalar. Anyway this topic is back to SPIRITUAL LEADERS LEADING THE WORLD. Enough about relgion please.



[edit on 24-2-2009 by universe attracts wisdom]

reply to post by universe attracts wisdom


OK I'm going to be the bigger man an simply step away from this conversation, your aparently incapable of grasping my ideas and this makes it impossible to debate. IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DID I COMPARE THE TWO (OTHER THEN TO SAY YOU BOTH WISH FOR AN AFTERLIFE), IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DID I CALL "BEING SPIRITUAL" THE SAME AS BEING RELIGIOUS, IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DID I INSULT ANYONES SPIRITUALITY BECAUSE I NEVER PUT THE TWO ON THE SAME PEDISTAL. YOUR COMPLETELY MISSING MY POINT AND IN THIS INSTANCE SEEM TO BE VOID OF ANY SORT OF LOGIC, SINCE WHAT YOU ARE POSTING IS NOTHING OF WHAT I HAVE WROTE IN MY OWN POSTS. GOOD DAY.

Originally posted by Harman
reply to post by debunky

 

Oh, yeah, That is why the creators of the calender made that thing 3000 years ago with 2000 years in the past. (it went back to 3000 BC roughly) Sounds reasonable.

.

Anyway, still big no on the leader thing.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Harman]

you mean like the gregorian calender got introduced in 1582? Starting not with one but with 1582? I dont really understand what you are saying here to be honest, but it might clear something up to know that the mayas adopted their calender from an older system.

Anyway: If like the OP states 2012 events can happen anytime to anybody i think it would be best to wait for those to happen then ... Of course if being a spiritual being would be so great and if there was one way to become one everybody would be doing it eh?

Atheist can't be spiritual? Ummm...okay. Dogma doesn't bind me. I consider myself a highly spiritual person. When are humans seriously going to allow others to have their own beliefs? Even if you disagree with their beliefs - there is NOT one right way IMO even tho I know quite a few of you believe there is. And if you think the rest of us are wrong, well then just leave us alone and let us be wrong.

Now, addressing the orginal post. No, one spiritual leader is SO not the answer. It's been said in this thread to look within yourself - there ya go.

I almost started a thread today dealing with the 2012 issue and cults. I'm worried over the next few years we are going to see these springing up everywhere with not so positive outcomes. 2012 will come and go, I just hope there aren't a whole lot of nikey wearing, kool-aid drinking naive people out there. Please everyone trust yourselves. If they ask for money, run. If they ask for a human sacrafice, run faster.

We don't have to wait until 2012.
WE ARE the leaders.

Originally posted by debunky
you mean like the gregorian calender got introduced in 1582? Starting not with one but with 1582? I dont really understand what you are saying here to be honest, but it might clear something up to know that the mayas adopted their calender from an older system.

First you compare the Mayan calender with the human calender stating their similarities namely they both end some point in time. And now you try to compare the calender with our open ended yearcount? That is apples and oranges. So what is it? Compare it with the count of each year or compare it with the open ended count of years? Mayan's where the first advanced ones on that continent, after it came the Aztecs. So if it where the case that the Aztecs did it, you may had a point but the beginning of the calender was made several hundred years after the start of the civilization, that makes it so interesting and it is a pointer they are measuring something else than their count of existence. They had different calenders, including a harvest ( year) calender for their yearly crops and such)

Anyway: If like the OP states 2012 events can happen anytime to anybody i think it would be best to wait for those to happen then ... Of course if being a spiritual being would be so great and if there was one way to become one everybody would be doing it eh?

2012 is not a sudden thing, so we are seeing things around us and will keep seeing stuff around us coming after each other in a exponential faster rate. If you look at ATS itself you see two forums being created facilitating the new found demand of esoteric practice ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) and 2012 in the last 6 months. So yeah, it's gaining attention. Not everybody is doing something with it but religion is on the decrease and spiritualism/esotericism is on the increase.

Heck, even the presidential campaign has been constructed in such a way that it went with hope, love, cooporation, honesty and self-affirmation (Yes we can). Even if that campaign turns out to be BS they pulverized the competition with it. He would have lost hopelessly with that attitude 8 years ago, would be branded to weak for presidency ( like they tried now but failed they would have won then i believe)

Look around you and smell the coffee, just because it is not on the tube or other big media does not say it is not there.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Harman]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
We have one already, he is the Lord, and his name is Jesus Christ.
Yes, you do need him, as does everyone else. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

If that is the case, then where is the Big Guy and why isn't he here "to reign for a thousand years"?

For that matter, why hasn't he used his ecclesiastical authority to appear before church leaders and excommunicate all Christian pedophiles - ministers, priests and nuns, many of which have preached in his name no less - who have sexually assaulted and in some cases RAPED thousands of innocent children around the world?

If Jesus is the Son of God, then why is he morally bereft, compassion-challenged, and completely unavailable in physical terms?

These are all important, timely, and valid questions that Christians like yourself ignore and remain unanswered because the Christian "god" simply isn't around to address them, directly or indirectly.

I think the OP is referring to an incarnate leader of good moral fiber and compassion, not a false-god icon furthered by collectives of inferior spirits

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Paul_Richard]

Give it time my nonspiritual chums for has god got a gift for you that will blow your mind. oh yes in time perhaps your doubts and confusion will be lifted. Keep an eye and ear out because your souls are about to be rocked to their core. you want proof you want truth be prepared because its coming its just taking a bit longer. id explain but i think that will be something for you to experience yourself.

In addressing the initial question in the OP, I think it is foolhardy, even dangerous to wait around for a spiritual leader to emerge. It is much wiser to strive to be our own spiritual leader, what Krishnamurti referred to as being A Light Onto Oneself.

That is the solution

The paradigm shift leading up to and culminating in or around 2012 is not something that will just happen, like being a passive passenger on a train. If we want to be part of it we must actively pursue the raising of our consciousness, serve others, and strive to live by The Golden Rule; thereby becoming A Light Onto Oneself.



[edit on 24-2-2009 by Paul_Richard]

No, we need a moral leader and example.

Spirituality is all nice but morality is what it really is about.

Ron Paul 2012

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Grey Magic]

Originally posted by Whisper67
Atheist can't be spiritual? Ummm...okay. Dogma doesn't bind me. I consider myself a highly spiritual person. When are humans seriously going to allow others to have their own beliefs?

Now, addressing the original post. No, one spiritual leader is SO not the answer. It's been said in this thread to look within yourself - there ya go.

Perhaps you could start a thread on the Spirituality of an Atheist. That could be a very interesting thread.

Now - addressing the original post. No - a single human leader is probably not a good idea.

Perhaps an "organizer/gatherer" will enter this world from some where else. I think I would still be skeptical of real intention.

Bottom line - the only person I can trust is me.

Originally posted by Grey Magic
No, we need a moral leader and example.

Spirituality is all nice but morality is what it really is about.

Ron Paul 2012

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Grey Magic]

Are you going to Choose my Morals?

The problem with Leader is its root word is "LEAD" - - - Not Follow or Join With.

Spirituality to me is more of a Join With.

reply to post by Annee


Only if they conflict with my own standards.

We need someone or some people to "lead the way" out of this *censored* mess since people are to lazy/dumb/afraid to walk alone.

And spirituality for me is our combined consciousness.

Originally posted by Grey Magic
reply to post by Annee

 

Only if they conflict with my own standards.

We need someone or some people to "lead the way" out of this *censored* mess since people are to lazy/dumb/afraid to walk alone.

And spirituality for me is our combined consciousness.

OK - I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

But - I Love your cat

Originally posted by Grey Magic
...spirituality for me is our combined consciousness.

That is the root of the problem, not the solution.

Combined consciousness in the discarnate dimensions that is not spiritually advanced results in the furthering of false gods, not genuine spiritual leaders.

Only by raising our consciousness on an individual basis can we then influence the raising of consciousness on a broader scale.

The traditional perspective of spirituality being defined as combined consciousness has proven to be antiquated and ultimately spiritually detrimental.

Highly evolved individuals, not groups, point the way and provide the answers.

Yes, but in the aftermath of 2012, what do we do with those whose Spirituality is defined by religion? There are many people who have no idea how to get in touch with the aethereal outside of what their religious text tells them to do.

Are they to be cast aside like so much chaff?

I suppose they are used to being slaves to something - so they could easily be used for labor in the new society. Perhaps a "spiritual leader" in the aftermath of 2012 could continue to give the people what they want in order to keep society functioning, but that seems disingenuous.

Religious people are responsible for atrocities going back thousands of years, maybe it's best for the future of Gaia if we just purge them all prior to 2012 to make sure we're ready for aenlightenment.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
Yes, but in the aftermath of 2012, what do we do with those whose Spirituality is defined by religion? There are many people who have no idea how to get in touch with the aethereal outside of what their religious text tells them to do.

Are they to be cast aside like so much chaff?

Spirituality is not and should not be defined by religion but by principles of moral conduct. Which does not imply submission to evil but it does mean trying to live by The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
I suppose they are used to being slaves to something - so they could easily be used for labor in the new society. Perhaps a "spiritual leader" in the aftermath of 2012 could continue to give the people what they want in order to keep society functioning, but that seems disingenuous.

That would not be a true spiritual leader.

Sounds more like a politician.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
Religious people are responsible for atrocities going back thousands of years, maybe it's best for the future of Gaia if we just purge them all prior to 2012 to make sure we're ready for aenlightenment.

There are many corrupt elements that are not religious just as there are corrupt religious elements. The focus should be on the cultivation of spiritual values.