I’m Tired of It

Much to the dismay of many here, I am back. And I’m here to rant about the partisan hackery I see in the news and here on ATS. But what’s new? I always do that.

I’m tired of the blame game, the pointing fingers, and the mudslinging. I’m tired of people already saying “I told you so” about Obama, and then telling half truths with clear consciences. Let’s be honest with each other here, both parties need to get their acts together and quit spending so much. At the same time, this game of blaming Obama for everything under the sun is getting old already.

What gripes can you possibly have with this man already?

• The stimulus package is going to ruin the economy.
  
  Which economy is that? The one that already lies in shambles before us? The one that is in such despair that its effects are reaching every corner of the world?
  
  Take a step back and look at yourself. Are you an economist? I can be quite arrogant at times, but I would never pretend to myself that, with my limited education on economics, I have the ability to actually understand the bailout or the current situation that the world’s economy is in.
  
  Now, I realize that this is a conspiracy site. I also realize that it gives people a feeling of worth when they play the “I know something you don’t know” game. Yeah, I know that you think the NWO is slowly creeping up on us, and that they need to steal all of our guns and bankrupt us before they can implant us with chips. I know the theory.
  
  
  For those of us not hanging out on the dark side of the moon, let’s also quit pretending like we know more than we do. What’s that? You heard from Rush Limbaugh that Obama is only doing this stimulus package so that he can use government to control business? Oh, and you heard that one economist said the stimulus won’t help?
  
  That’s great! Too bad Rush Limbaugh is just a partisan-hack pundit who takes one scrap of truth and twists it around with speculation and opinion into a web of retarded lies. More importantly, for every economist who thinks the stimulus package will fail, there is another one screaming bloody murder that it needs to be passed ASAP.
  
  For Many Economists, Stimulus Falls Flat
  
  OH – MY – GOD. THE ECONOMISTS THINK IT IS GOING TO FAIL. Quick, make a post on ATS about how dumb Obama and liberals are. You know, according to at least one poster here, we all use drugs and steal money.
  
  
  Economists Agree Time Is of the Essence for Stimulus
  
  Oh snap! Economists think the stimulus will help, and it needs to be done immediately! Wow, what a surprise, economists don’t know the answer either! Can we all stop pretending that we are economists who know that Obama ruined the country with the stimulus he didn’t write?
  
  And, no, Ron Paul didn’t get elected, and never stood a chance to. Quit being cowards and hiding behind Ron Paul.
  
  
• This stimulus can’t work! They are using it for “Quiet Zones” and rebuilding golf courses!
  
  Duh! The entire point of the stimulus package is to provide funding locally to businesses so that they need to hire employees to keep up with demand. Then, the new employees (in theory) will spend the money they make, further stimulating other business.
  
  It’s not rocket science. And that’s not all that is in the package either:
  
  What's in Obama's Stimulus Package for You
  
  
  1. 25 billion for creating construction jobs. This will benefit us by providing new jobs, new facilities and upgrades on current ones, and more money in our local economies.
     
     
  2. 25 billion for the states. The entire point is to help states avoid cutting their employees (also helping inject money into the local areas).
     
     
  3. Suspension of tax on unemployment.
     
     
  4. $3000 to small businesses for each new hire.
     
     
  5. Automakers will receive loans for new fuel-efficient cars (I know, I know – the redneck Camaro isn’t covered in that, sorry).

This is among a whole bunch of things this stimulus package attempts to accomplish. Why does everyone here act like they actually know whether this will work or not? Why do they all pretend like they understand the Fed better than the experts?

Most importantly, how ignorant do you have to be to continue wishing for Obama’s policies to fail? You do realize that we share the same damn country, don’t you? If this package fails, you’re just as screwed as the democrats that pushed for it.

Personally, I don’t know why the democrats created this package. Any good democrat will tell you that the money should belong to the people – not corporate America. And since when do conservatives disagree with trickle-down economics?

Do they not realize that this plan relies on it? Have conservatives just admitted that supply-side economics is, and always has been, a sham?

• This is all the liberals fault! Clinton made the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which allowed all of these companies to merge!
  
  True, Clinton did sign the bill, but this was a republican created and pushed bill (deregulate, deregulate, deregulate).
  
  Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act
  

  
  The bills were introduced in the U.S. Senate by Phil Gramm (R-Texas) and in the U.S. House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa). The third lawmaker associated with the bill was Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-Virginia), Chairman of the House Commerce Committee from 1995 to 2001. On May 6, 1999, the Senate passed the bills by a 54-44 vote along party lines (53 Republicans and one Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats opposed).[2] On July 20, the House passed a different version of the bill on an uncontested and uncounted voice vote.

  
  
  Also, and more importantly, Bill Clinton did not force the American public to spend 105% of their income.
  
  
• Obama is going to Afghanistan? How is that change? He has already lied to us!
  
  Way to do your research! I’ve heard this time and time again. It’s another move I disagree with of his, but at least he’s said he was going to Afghanistan since the beginning. This is nothing new, and if you had done your research, you’d have known this was coming.
  
  
• Obama is allowing rendition! Just like Bush, told you so!
  
  First, I must point this out (in the actual order):
  
  What is Obama's Rendition Policy?
  

  
  ...(ii) to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control.

  
  
  Also, as pointed out by another member on ATS named Sestias, there is a difference between rendition and extraordinary rendition.
  
  Panetta says no torture
  

  
  SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): Will the CIA continue the practice of extraordinary rendition by which the government will transfer a detainee to either a foreign government or a black site for the purpose of long-term detention and interrogation, as opposed to for law enforcement purposes?
  PANETTA: No we will not.

If there are any other Rush Limbaugh, pseudo-facts that I need to address and forgot, please feel free to remind me.

Otherwise, I hope some will use this as a guide to remember that not everything you hear is true.


[edit on 2/19/2009 by Irish M1ck]

Your not saying anything new here. All this has been done before in past administrations and look at where we are at today.

The "in theory" crap lost its theoretical application to reality a long time ago, and is why it never panned out.

It does not matter how many jobs get created when that income is sucked up by overbloated real estate markets, prices on commodities, fuels, and of course, property taxes and income taxes and use taxes and taxes upon taxes.

In the end, due to people not having that extra money for extra things, jobs are reduced to next to nothing and the cycle repeats all over again.

Face it..the current capitalist and tax system does not work for the common worker who is the backbone of this nation. It only serves the rich and big corporations that are the ones who seem to be the only ones that get any benefit out of any situation, no matter what state the economy is in.

As far as blaming Obama, he does have a few things to be blamed about. That recent stimulous package he signed in Denver does not help the common worker at all. These huge corporations will take that money and invest it overseas, creating jobs there, not here. That needs to be changed otherwise big corporations will continue to belly up and get bailouts and invest once again overseas..while we pay for it with our jobless populace.

America needs to return to what it was back in the 60's and earlier, when we didnt need overseas investment, oil, manufactured goods, or investors.

Unfortunately the bottom line these days is not about people, its about profit. Screw the people, secure the profit...that is modern big corporate policy. And it is also modern government policy to allow it to happen and continue to make us pay for that free ride we will never be a part of...except paying the cost.



Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
Otherwise, I hope some will use this as a guide to remember that not everything you hear is true.

A great point and one that should be applied broad spectrum and beyond the political realm.

It should also be noted that the partisan divide is in actuality encouraged and actively pushed by some. As some may recall during the recent Presidential campaign, it was found that this site was being accessed by RNC ip's. While this doesn't prove that everyone is a disinfo agent or intentionally pushing for rhetorical division and argumentative tonalities, it does suggest that some people really care more about the party distinction regardless of the logic involved with either side.

I encourage one and all to not be drawn into the bickering (as I oddly found myself in recently) and to make substantial and thoughtful posts on these topics rather than react to percieved aggression...

Obama makes false promises. Obama is not as sharp as Obama or the Obamanites think. Obama is not as popular as the Obamanites think and that makes them REALLY angry.

Many people don't think they should have to pay to support all the Obamanites who voted for him to get the handout he has promised them in the stimulus (You know the one that nobody in Congress read before it was passed, real cool there politicians!).

Its been less than 6 weeks. You think people are hard on him now, you better close your eyes and plug your ears because its not going to get any better, the anti Obama crowd will continue to hurt your feelings.

He has shown himself to be what many of us thought all along - an inexperienced promise maker who will soon add excuse maker to his resume.

I'll take experience over hope any day.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Also - you completely forgot to mention his "transparency" pledge - the one where he said a bill will be posted for 5 days before he signs it.

He signed it and Congress didn't even read it. Wonderful. We'll be hearing about Pelosi's pet projects hidden in it for years to come. All I can say is I hope many more people realize Obama's "transparency" - in the fact that if you take off your rose colored glasses you can see right through him.

No - I'm not a republican or neocon or whatever new trendy word is used to describe right wingers today. I'm just a concerned American who sees this Obama character running up bills my great grandchildren are going to be stuck with.

The election is over - get off the Obama wagon and look at what's really going on. And to the first person on this thread to mention Bush - Please don't read my post because you just don't get it.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


So, you are tired of hearing the blame game directed towards Obama, but then you come here and pick on the past Republicans, Bush, Limbaugh, et al??

When are we going to realize that the blame game helps nothing?

When are we going to realize that both parties got us into this mess?

When are we going to realize that neither party is doing much of anything to help us (yes, us little peons down here in the real world) out?

When are we going to quit baiting each other, sniping at each other, playing party politics with each other, and realize that gets us no where?

This mess we find ourselves in is no one person's fault and no single party's fault. It is the fault of both parties and playing the "my guy does/did better/more/worse/less than your guy" game is getting to the level of kindergarten "nanny-nanny-boo-boo" antics. Trying to one up the other side day in and day out is getting old.

People here like Obama. People here don't like Obama. People here are Democrats. People here are Republicans. People here are liberals. People here are conservatives. We all have different points of view.

It doesn't matter who is to blame now. We are in a mess. And, pointing fingers as to who did what when doesn't do a thing to help clean it up.

[edit on 2/19/2009 by skeptic1]

reply to post by RFBurns

Face it..the current capitalist and tax system does not work for the common worker who is the backbone of this nation. It only serves the rich and big corporations that are the ones who seem to be the only ones that get any benefit out of any situation, no matter what state the economy is in.

I completely agree. Unfortunately, half of the country does not, and because of that, we are in a deadlock.

As far as blaming Obama, he does have a few things to be blamed about. That recent stimulous package he signed in Denver does not help the common worker at all. These huge corporations will take that money and invest it overseas, creating jobs there, not here. That needs to be changed otherwise big corporations will continue to belly up and get bailouts and invest once again overseas..while we pay for it with our jobless populace.

I actually agree. I think it subscribes to trickle-down economics, and it's complete garbage. I think it's Obama trying to be non-partisan and agreeing to it against better judgment. Why else would he even think to agree to the same old republican "help business and business will help us" argument?

But, the difference between most people and I is that I HOPE it does work. It might work. They are injecting an awful lot of cash into the economy, and though there are economists who say it won't put a dent in it, there are also those who say it is necessary.

America needs to return to what it was back in the 60's and earlier, when we didnt need overseas investment, oil, manufactured goods, or investors.

I agree. I found that many said that we've moved into a more intellectual society, so we don't need many producing companies or manufacturing jobs - we provide the ideas. Obviously that has turned out to be false.

So, I agree with most things you say, I just want to give Obama the benefit of the doubt since he inherited this (just like I did with Bush and his wars).

reply to post by MemoryShock


I have no doubt about that. Towards the end, when it got really crazy, some really offensive stuff was being said. It got really nasty. I have noticed that many of those posters never came back after election day.

reply to post by slicobacon


Yes, us stupid Obamanites. We have no idea what we are doing. We just follow him because he's so smart and he speaks so well.

An entire post of bashing, and not one fact, not one thing that wasn't complete opinion (and partisan opinion at that).

reply to post by slicobacon


You know, personally, I don't think anyone should sign anything without thoroughly reading it. However, you conveniently left out that his "transparency pledge" was for non-emergency situations.

This has been called an emergency, like it or not, and so that pledge doesn't apply.

reply to post by skeptic1


Rush Limbaugh is a hack. I don't care what party he represents. I feel no pity at all stating that trusting Limbaugh is throwing away any chance you have at looking at politics in a non-partisan manner.

Also, I don't see where I attacked republicans other than trickle-down economics.

[edit on 2/19/2009 by Irish M1ck]

Haven't you been bashing president Bush and Republicans in quite a few threads, or is that someone else with a similar avatar?

reply to post by stevegmu


I think you'll find it rare that I ever blame an entire party for something. Maybe if I'm really raging.

I do blame Bush for certain things: failure in Iraq, lying to the public, domestic wiretapping, the Patriot Act, and torture.

Stuff like that.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


You pointed out that where the Dems have made mistakes, so have the Republicans. Clinton signed this bill, but it was a Republican bill. Bush's rendition is worse than Obama's. Trickle-down economics doesn't work and guess who is the party of that belief....Republicans.

Yadda, yadda, yadda....

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I just don't think that you can gripe about the blame game on one hand while you are placing blame on someone else with the other hand.

There are ways to make a point without pointing the finger.

reply to post by skeptic1


I never pointed the finger at anyone... I literally have no idea what you are talking about. The entire post was that there are more people to blame than fingers to point, and we need to focus on being positive.

This trend where people lie and twist facts is unbelievable. How can people live with themselves knowing that they are intentionally leaving out parts of the story to push an agenda?

People disagree with everything Obama does... just because. I agree they did it to Bush after his reelection, but Obama has just started his term and it's obvious that people are just out for revenge.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


I never said "you" did. I said that there are ways to make a point without pointing the finger.

That goes for all of us.

Your opening post would have been just as strong (if not stronger in the sense of decrying the blame game) if you had left out:

* Ron Paul
* The "cowards" who support him and/or "hide" behind him
* Rush Limbaugh
* Sean Hannity
* Bush's rendition policy
* Republican support of trickle down economics
* The fact that the Clinton-signed bill was backed by Republicans

That is pointing fingers.....IMO. The points you made are strong ones and quite valid. It isn't tit-for-tat.

We are in a mess, and both sides did it to us. It isn't one side did it because of what the other side did. They did it together, and no one is to blame more than the other.

The election is over.Now it is time for this guy to put up and shut up.I am old enough to remember a time when we elected another "chosen one" that promised oh so much and was going to lead us out of the wilderness to the promised land.

He too had very little experience at the national level.

And was one of the most ineffective Presidents we have ever had.

He came to mind recently during the salmonella scare and it was traced to a place in Georgia that made peanut butter.

Obama will be just like him, a one term blunder.Because we never learn.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by calcoastseeker]

reply to post by skeptic1


-I'm sorry, I'm just tired of the "I voted for Ron Paul" defense. It just seems like a cop out to me. I like Ron Paul to, but he couldn't win, so why blame everyone else for not voting for him?

-Limbaugh... I'm sorry, but I'll take any chance I get to attack him. He's useless. Don't believe I ever mentioned Hannity.

-I didn't say anything about Bush's rendition policy. Go back and reread it. This is what OTHERS on the site have been saying:

"Obama is allowing rendition! Just like Bush, told you so!"

-Trickle-down economics. I don't care for it, and I think it's proven to be its own demise. This whole economic crisis is proof of that fact.

-The Clinton thing... I was just showing where people accused democrats of causing it that Republicans weren't clean either.

These are all things others have said about democrats, and I was merely showing that there are other sides to the story. Sorry if it offends you.

*Edit:

I should add, I do this quite often to get off some steam. I see multiple different rumors or "news" stories that don't quite tell the truth, I compile them in a thread, and I show both sides.

[edit on 2/19/2009 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by calcoastseeker


Another sound heard from from the microwave society.

Has Obama been in office a month yet?

I ask anyone to show me a president that has accomplished anything in a month.

I know everyone is anxious to see stuff happen, but despite lightening fast interent, the rest of the world does take time.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


It doesn't offend me, but in a way, you seem to be doing what you are complaining about.

Blame game and pointing fingers.....be it with comparisons or witty barbs.

That's just how I see it.

I agree with you and I am tired of seeing the slam-fest threads too. I am also sick of those threads turning from discussing the facts to seeing who can blame the other side the loudest. I would much rather discuss the topic than assign blame. But, how realistic is that hope? Not very.....not anywhere, it seems.

But, like I said, it is both sides. It is both sides placing blame here. It is both sides placing blame in DC. It is both sides placing blame in the media.

I am with you that the blame should be placed on both sides.....but equally. They all did it. It shouldn't be that "my side screwed this up only because your side screwed that up" or "my guy said this because your guy said that" or "my party did this and messed only because your party messed up when they did that".

They all screwed up. They all messed up royally. Both parties are to blame. And, we are paying for it....literally.

I thought I'd found a spot where sheep could graze in peace, I guess I was wrong. You guys didn't get past the first page without fighting!

While I agree the republicans oughta keep their mouths shut after the last eight rape years, the dems also better share some blame for being
spineless wimps and not standing up to bushs crony posse when they should of.

We turned a new page in this country and if some still dont want to, thats fine, just don't expect to ever progress or even get through the next baby steps that are critical to our cohesiveness as a nation.

We are already doomed with those attitudes,no matter whos in charge! We keep fighting each other all the while spouting off how much we're getting screwed. If we could ever get over this bickering we may get our country back. Our choice, we fight the PTB or each other. Which is it?

The bankers have ran this country for a hundred years now. Read the Bankers Manifesto(for starters),for a 700 billion dollar clue about who's REALLY in charge and who we REALLY need to be mad at.

Watch this! It explains alot plus it's funny!
www.youtube.com...
Guess who elects these people?
www.youtube.com...

This is why I have pretty much stopped posting.(I know who cares) This bickering permeates every thread. No matter how it starts, we turn on each other, I know I'm tempted myself. I'm no better than anyone. We forget at the end of the day we are all Americans and however much we dont enjoy seeing it being looted, it doesn't mean we need to take it out on each other. That's what "they" are counting on! That's what this is all about.
P.S. I'm tired of it too. S & F



[edit on 19-2-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by dodadoom


I agree with you, and thanks for the S&F. I'm biting my tongue on the rest of it, since I have to keep a low profile around here.

I agree, the back and forth bickering is just downright depressing.