Does $65.5 trillion debt terrify anyone yet? Possibly as high as 99.2 TRILLION

reply to post by dean007

i mean do the math its cheaper to just declare war on who we owe alot cheaper

That's suggesting we go to war with China. They own most of our debt. That's not going to happen.

reply to post by Walkswithfish


You are right it would have to be astronomical. I couldn't even begin to imagine how much it would be.

Definitely in the the 100's of trillions.

Crazy.

why is it we owe china so much we have been buying there crap from them for 10 years
besides its all because they have some agenda to push on us they know it will never get approved so they have to make thing so bad it seems like a good idea

i mean how does every country all of a sudden go broke were did all the money go and look at all the companies up until the last year all record profits were did it all go

this is all just one big worldwide false flag

the worlds money system has always been broke why is it failing now because the puppet masters have decided to pull the strings at least we are getting front row seats to the biggest show on earth

besides there is nothing any of us can do it is and will always be out of our hands till we take it back

reply to post by David9176

If this is a possibility, how could they possibly print up enough cash for the entire world? You'd think it would take a very long time. I don't really know what is going to happen . .

I have personally lived through a money exchange. In Korea, in December, 1953, the MPC - military payment certificates - also called script - was issued by the US Government for use by US personnel in Korea and Japan. The exchange was made with very short notice. Like on Thursday at 6 PM we were notified to bring all our money to the Exchange Point between 8 AM and 2 PM on Friday, to exchange for NEW MPC. All MPC was printed in different colors.

We were limited to $500 exchanged without question. If we had more, we had to fill out a form explaining where we got the money (MPC). Pay for an E4 was about $175 a month - no taxes were paid by EM in Korea - so $500 represented about 3 months pay. Guys like me saved our money for the 7 days R&R in Japan. Rest and Recuperation. Or as we called it, Rape and Repatriation. Every 4 months for USAF types.


[edit on 2/16/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


Tell me about, Reganomics cause a panic in the stock market during his era but what is going on right now is going to give a full hart attack to the markets this time.

Thanks fro bringing the historical factor involved here with what may be a taste of the future.

I tell you I am just going to sit down and see what is coming our way next, because obviously as an American I have done what ever is needed to help push the government in the right direction, but is to no avail, the bad polices, corruption and bad administration is just our of control.

To do the next viable thing constitutionally will sound to radical for many.

reply to post by David9176


No no no , you know what happend in the Fallout 3 universe.

reply to post by David9176


The simple fact is that The Greatest Generation and the Flower Power Generation have systematically been stealing from the rest of us for 30 years. That bill is going to come due and it's Gen X'ers and the ones that follow who are going to have to pay for those assholes excesses. I don't know about you folks but as a Gen X'er myself, I'm friggin furious. We will be the first American Generation who is given less than what our parent's had. Forget left and right, America has been a culture of users for 50 years and sooner or later someone is going to have to pay for it and that's us. The sickest part is that the damage is done and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it other than suck it up and try to clean up after the children.

reply to post by marg6043

Tell me about, Reganomics cause a panic in the stock market during his era but what is going on right now is going to give a full hart attack to the markets this time. Thanks fro bringing the historical factor involved here with what may be a taste of the future.

I tell you I am just going to sit down and see what is coming our way next, because obviously as an American I have done what ever is needed to help push the government in the right direction, but is to no avail, the bad polices, corruption and bad administration is just our of control. To do the next viable thing constitutionally will sound to radical for many.

Reaganomics is the DEREGULATION of our society. Pull the plug on all the New Deal agencies and also on EPA and OSHA which are Nixon approved agencies. (But for his criminal tendencies Nixon was a good president).

Between 1933 when the New Deal created administrative agencies to watch-dog the financial world, until 1980 when Ronald Reagan said “government is the problem, not the solution” and “get the government off your back.” Reagan began a process to either repeal the regulations outright, install non-regulatory types in regulatory jobs to neuter the rules, or to reduce the staff to a level where it was basically impotent to enforce the rules.

The SEC. Securities and Exchange Commission. Recall the guy who reported the Bernard Madoff ponzi scheme 2 times as long ago as 10 years? Someone in the SEC prevented any serious investigation into Madoff. Although he operated out of a shoebox which itself should have been a flag he got by until the very end. I start from the position nothing big happens in the world of politics by accident.

The home mortgage meltdown happened under the Reaganomics scheme. Note: From 1933 to 1980, more homes were built in America than anywhere on earth! Under FHA and the GI Bill, not one LENDER lost ONE CENT in all those years! In 1980 the system of protecting not only lenders but indirectly protecting buyer as well was dismantled. Now as we are leaning, the system that protected the ENTIRE world economy was totally mucked up. Thank you, Reagan, Bush and Newt!

US home loan mortgages from 1933-1980 enjoyed a PERFECT record and that made the US owner occupied home mortgage next to GOD in safety! Little did they know Reagan had destroyed the protections. Good appraisals. Honest lenders. Qualified buyers. And now we may have to pick up TRILLIONS of dollars - maybe. Reagan and his followers have put our grand children’s futures into real jeopardy. Our perfect record of NO DEFAULTS is in issue. Can we afford to "stay the course" as Bush43 counseled? Or must there come a time when America says, "Sorry, but we'll pay you a nickel on the dollar."

The Commodity and Futures Trading Commission - CFTC - had 4,000 staff in 1980. Today, on its website, it says 405 work there. This is the agency that is supposed to protect us from SPECULATORS running the price of oil up to $147 a barrel. Gutted by Ronald Reagan and the TWO Bushes. Note: Bank of America is taking money given to it to loan and is buying crude oil and storing it offshore in tankers until the price is RIGHT! That’s today, February 17, 2009.

The CPSC - Consumer Product Safety Commission - which is to keep ALL LEAD out of children’s toys - it disgusts me to hear any so-called expert talk about SAFE levels of LEAD for Children! There is only ONE safe level for a child, and that’s ZERO! (And it's advisable for adults too).

The CPSC was down to ONE full time inspector for ALL the toys imported into the US. O-N-E. And he says his laboratory is 20 years out of date. We learned even China did not know where the many parts assembled into toys were coming from. Baby’s milk was contaminated on purpose with melamine. It must resemble protein as that was added to make 2% milk test like 4%. Pet foods have been contaminated with ethylene glycol, propylene, toxic metals and mycotoxins, to quote one website.

OK, point made. So what’s up? When the Democrats were in power, the Department of Agriculture, the Food and Drug Administration as well as the other agencies charged with safety of the American public were PRO-ACTIVE. After Ronald Reagan and the 2 Bushes pushed along mightily by the Newt Gingrich and Dennis Hastert Congress, the Government watch-dogs are now RE-ACTIVE.

None of the huge meat recalls, none of the peanut butter recalls were commenced by the Agriculture Department whose safety and cleanliness of processed foods is their responsibility. Under the Republicans, the manufacturers or processor DO THEIR OWN inspection, and report to the Federal oversight agency!

Like the Georgia peanut processor whose company discovered salmonella contamination in its peanut products but SHIPPED anyway! WHAT does that tell you? 1) This is not the first time they have done that. 2) They feel safe which means they have PAID off the Georgia inspections system and the Fed’s are also SAFE.

The FOX is watching the HEN HOUSE and with the FARMER’S approval.


[edit on 2/18/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


All this only makes the blood boil, this is what our government full of corrupted politicians on personal and corporate agendas has done to our nation, in pursue of personal wealth.

We have been rob, rape and plunder.

And still we forget the problems and do what our own government tells us to do, "go get more credit and loans and spend, spend and spend some more"

Remember Bush after 9/11, "Go out and spend"

It seems that this the way to make the people forget about the corruption in this nation.

I hope I live long enough to see a change when people actually get fed up and fire all the politicians in this nation.

The are nothing than recycle trash.

The amount of debt is larger than the amount of money.

So they're asking us to do the impossible.

By law, a contract that cannot be fulfilled is null and void.

reply to post by username371

The amount of debt is larger than the amount of money. So they're asking us to do the impossible. By law, a contract that cannot be fulfilled is null and void.

Impossible? Yes. Absolutely. The so-called “financial expert” says, $50 t. Then another expert says $90 t. Then yet another expert says $140 t. The amount of debt is larger than the amount of money. This is possible because BANKS were leveraging 30 to 1. Others were leveraging 50 to 1. I have ALWAYS said Wall Street (meaning the NYSE) is a RICH man’s gambling club! All my life. I’ve compared the NYSE unfavorably with horse racing which being from Kentucky, I’m somewhat familiar with. You can buy 10 stocks today and EVERY one can go SOUTH tomorrow! Yet, in every horse race, there is always ONE winner, at least.

To be more serious. All this running about calling for BAIL OUTS and now for STIMULUS is really the R&Fs calculating how to get out with their stolen goods and leaving us the P&P-ers behind to pay the bills. Like in a hotel, the con-man leaves and we have to face the checkout counter ALONE! (R&Fs are the rich and famous, P&P-er are the poor and poorer).

Now the saddest truth is we PEONS do need secure banks. We do need for our employers to be able to borrow on short terms to meet payroll and so on. It is that BOTTOM LINE NEED we have that the R&Fs are tricking us into letting them keep their ill gotten gains!

So once again (welfare reform in 1990s), I’m happy to have Democrats in the cutting room! I know the Dems are going to screw me too. But whereas the Dems will screw me maybe 2 or 3 times, the Repuliccans would screw me 10 or 15 times! So for a little guy, I have got to go with the guy who shows me some mercy! Dems are not perfectly GOOD, but Republicans are perfectly BAD! Come Quick, Sweet Jesus!

reply to post by marg6043

We have been rob, rape and plunder. And still we forget the problems and do what our own government tells us to do, "go get more credit and loans and spend, spend and spend some more" Remember Bush after 9/11, "Go out and spend"

It seems that this the way to make the people forget about the corruption in this nation. I hope I live long enough to see a change when people actually get fed up and fire all the politicians in this nation. The are nothing than recycle trash.

To answer your plaintive cry would require a longish book, M43. Let me deal in generalities. Politics is the art - not an exact science - of balancing competing interests. Some choices by necessity exclude other claims of right and or privilege. So in those instances, there is no compromise possible to make everyone happy. Or even satisfied if not actually happy.

Now unlike a lot of jingo Americans I do not excuse our MESS by claiming it is the BEST mess in the world. The ill informed may think that is the case but you and I know it is not. There are many countries around the world where the government is competent and responsive to the wishes of their citizens. Very few of those countries have a TWO party system such as ours. Off the top of my head, I’d say NONE have.

We - the US - had a 2 party system from the very beginning. It is true there were no parties in the first presidential election (1789) but by the second election (1792), there were 2 parties. See Note 1. There is only one time in American political history where a third party played a decisive role in presidential politics (I’m ignoring the Green Party in Florida in 2000). That was the 1912 election in which former Republican president Theodore Roosevelt ran on the Progressive Party (Bull Moose) ticket and split the GOP vote so that Democrat Woodrow Wilson was elected.

You might argue the 1860 Republican Party was a third party because the Democrats spilt that year into 2 parties. Douglas also of Illinois ran on the northern anti-slavery Democratic ticket and Breckenridge (of KY) ran on the southern pro-slavery Democratic ticket, making it possible for Lincoln with only 38% of the popular vote to be elected.

I can see now this approach is going to exceed the 10000 strokes allowed by ATS so let me slow down and end this. All too many people in politics think TOP DOWN, and too few think BOTTOM UP. I voted for Obama because I believe he will do MORE of the bottom up kind of thinking than would any GOP. I hesitate to say John McCain because he was INELIGIBLE for the presidency by not being a NATURAL BORN citizen, and he slapped America in the face by choosing Sarah Palin to be his back-up, and him OLD and SICK! (I also suspect he is rated a 100% disabled veteran too but his website would not respond to my repeated inquiries). See Note 2.

CONCLUSION. There is only ONE way ordinary Americans can ever regain control over their government. If they ever had it in the first place. And that is CFR! My favorite solution. CFR! Campaign Finance Reform. By which I mean NO private money allowed in a public election campaign. The Federal and state governments MUST pay 100% of the cost of elections INCLUDING the oh too long electioneering!

"You (candidates) spend non-public money, and you’re OUT! You take NOTHING, not even a cup of coffee or a used newspaper!" Until any person can run for any office regardless of his money, we are going to be victimized by the R&Fs. Rich and Famous.

IT’S EITHER OUR MONEY OR IT’S THEIR MONEY. It has always been true that he who pays the fiddler calls the tune.


Note 1: From the CIA World Factbook
Afghanistan has 47 recognized political parties. See
www.cia.gov...

Iraq has 16 recognized political parties. See
www.cia.gov...

Note 2. US Con. Article 2, Section 1, Clause 4: No person except a natural born citizen . . shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.


[edit on 2/18/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by marg6043


Marge,
What comes next are the commercial real estate loans and "derivatives".
These have been mentioned as looming ahead. Not sure about CREs...
the derivatives are in the 60-80 trillion dollar range, or so I have heard on talk radio. Not much has been said about either from MSM.

Perhaps, our man David can shed additional light. He seems to be on a roll.

Good job, David. You deserve a raise. WE should put you in a lower class in celebration. I know you'll be pleased. You, after all, have much more to give. ( whether you like it or not!:lol

reply to post by pyrytyes

These have been mentioned as looming ahead. Not sure about CREs... the derivatives are in the 60-80 trillion dollar range, or so I have heard on talk radio. Not much has been said about either from MSM.

The MSM isn't going to touch this stuff for the most part just like they won't talk about what happened last Sept 11 when 550 billion was sapped out of the system.

I think they may be afraid that if the public finds out too much and gets too scared, they will put a huge run on the banks and start pocketing all their money. If that happens, it's endgame.

In all honesty, we are at endgame now. It's all a matter of how it's all going to come down.

As for the commercial real estate, yes, I've heard the same thing. Check out some of Gerald Celente's vids on youtube. There are a few threads of him on ATS.

He's a trend forecaster and has been quite accurate. He's made appearances on countless shows and news programs. He is the first one I've seen talk about commercial real estate..and it makes much sense.

No one is going to buy up those buildings. It's just going to keep building up and up.

The derivatives thing I don't even understand. I've heard insane numbers on that. Many think that is what is going to bring us down.

We are extremely fragile right now as a country and as a world.

One bad thing happens right now, we are all screwed. The world's economy is just too unstable.



I'm going to add one thing. People are starting to listen to me...FINALLY! Friends, family, people I work with, they are finally starting to see it and they are pissed!

They are not angry at just one person or one political party, they are mad at EVERYONE for what is happening.

When people talk of things like revolution, i used to think it was "going overboard' so to speak.

Maybe it's not. Maybe this is what this country really needs.

What will you do?

monopoly money doesn't terrify me. this is so ridiculous it's becoming laughable. what else can we do BUT laugh. the plot is hatching. not a damn thing your or i can do about it now.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Now, the really worrisome thing is that, from that position, they do not seem to be serving the American public's best interests.

Holy crap Ian.

That must be the end all be all ultimate grand mal seizure of understatements.

excuse my ignorance, but where should we pay the trillions? to the 5 greatest bankers of all times? they should cancel all trash and start a proper moneys-stem based on the contribution towards the society and NOT the ability to trade the symbol of wealth..

[edit on 18-2-2009 by sty]

Thank you for posting this info.

I'm in Europe and some things are a bit difficult to put into perspective for me, despite of your equation with the one year BPD of the world. (This is mainly because I have no economic background what so ever... so not due to your explanation)

I do understand however, it's a lot. From where I am, the government sets a budget each year and the budget has to match the income with a margin of 3 percent. So the total budget is allowed a 3 % shortage. (except in crisis situation)

So I understand that America is in a lot of debt, but do you have a percentage for me relating to the national budget of america?

reply to post by donwhite


CFR would be a big help yes but the biggest factor that is hurting Americans are career politicians. They consistently put their electoral needs ahead of what is actually good policy for America simply because staying in power is more important to some of these people than doing what is best for their constituents. Limit Senate and House terms to a maximum of 12 years per individual and this country would be much better off going forward.

I was alarmed for awhile but I'm settling down now. What's 78 trillion dollars, when the dollar becomes worthless? The NWO will replace the dollar with a new currency and I'm sure they'll just wipe the slate clean at the same time. Everything is going according to plan. There is no reason to panic. Remain calm ladies and gentlemen.



[edit on 18-2-2009 by Bombeni]