Barack Obama sends bust of Winston Churchill on its way back to Britain

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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Barack Obama sends bust of Winston Churchill on its way back to Britain


www.telegraph.co.uk

A bust of the former prime minister once voted the greatest Briton in history, which was loaned to George W Bush from the Government's art collection after the September 11 attacks, has now been formally handed back.
The bronze by Sir Jacob Epstein, worth hundreds of thousands of pounds if it were ever sold on the open market, enjoyed pride of place in the Oval Office during President Bush's tenure.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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What I find more interesting about the article, from an 'alternative' point of view are the lines toward the end of the article where it discusses possible reasons why Obama returned the sculpture. Please see my next post for the quote I speak about.

Link to image of the sculpture in question:



www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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www.telegraph.co.uk... itain.html


Churchill has less happy connotations for Mr Obama than those American politicians who celebrate his wartime leadership. It was during Churchill's second premiership that Britain suppressed Kenya's Mau Mau rebellion. Among Kenyans allegedly tortured by the colonial regime included one Hussein Onyango Obama, the President's grandfather.



The rejection of the bust has left some British officials nervously reading the runes to see how much influence the UK can wield with the new regime in Washington.
Now it is likely that Gordon Brown will offer a alternative symbol of Anglo-American fealty when he visits Washington to meet Mr Obama for the first time since he became President. Diplomats are still working to finalise a date for the visit which is expected in the final week of this month or early in March.
One suggestion, given Mr Obama's interest in the Lincoln era, is that Mr Brown should offer an artefact relating to the career of John Bright, the 19th Century MP and political reformer who became the most prominent British supporter of Lincoln's Union forces during the American Civil War.

BOLD emphasis mine.

I found the 'reading of the runes' to be a strange way to describe the situation.
en.wikipedia.org...

They are wanting to 'foresee' the future regarding US/British relations by looking at magic symbols carved in stone?

Also, the idea of 'fealty' in regard to modern relations seems a bit odd.

An oath of fealty, from the Latin fidelitas (faithfulness), is a pledge of allegiance of one person to another. Typically the oath is made upon a religious object such as a Bible or saint's relic, thus binding the oath-taker before God.

en.wikipedia.org...

So Tony Blair pledged allegiance to George Bush, under the head of Churchill ( who was half American on his mom's side )?

Very weird symbolism here. Hopefully someone more versed can take this and run with it.
DocMoreau



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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Seems to me he gave it back because it didn't belong to us and was just on loan.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when someone loans you something... you're eventually supposed to give it back, yes?

What is there to suggest that the return of the bust was anything other than an innocent return of another country's property?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Resinveins
 


I agree. Maybe you should look more carefully at what the article is saying. It says how flustered the British were when he gave it back, that they are wondering about the future relations with the US because of this sculpture being returned.

You see, they didn't want it back. Maybe because it was there way to listen in to Bush, via secret camera, I don't know. WHat I am saying, is that the article used certain esoteric terms, and also terms that have fallen out of everyday language.

Thats all. It is just weird... and not funny bone weird. Weird, weird.
DocMoreau



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by DocMoreau
 





Among Kenyans allegedly tortured by the colonial regime included one Hussein Onyango Obama, the President's grandfather.



WOW what a small world.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Churchill was in power when the British crushed the Mau Mau rebellion and tortured our dear leader's grandad into the bargain.

The dear leader it seems, holds a grudge.

Expect some serious socialist grovelling from that incompetent Brown.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
[Among Kenyans allegedly tortured by the colonial regime included one Hussein Onyango Obama, the President's grandfather. ]

Wow if that's the case then I don't blame Obama for tossing out the head like a hot potato.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by star in a jar
 


LOl I was gonna say the same thing.

Be careful of the bridges you burn. While the world may be huge, sometimes it is very small.

if that is the case, what are the chances? It is really mind boggeling.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Maybe not that small of a world, Obama's grandfather wasn't one of few, but many.
Kenyan casualties from the Mau Mau incident:

Casualties and losses
10,527 killed in action;
2,633 captured in action;
26,625 arrested;
2,714 surrendered;
70,000 - 100,000 interned.

en.wikipedia.org...

The uprising occurred during Churchill's second term 1951-1955.

I honestly had never even heard about Mau Mau until today.

There is definitely something more to this. Either I don't have the historical knowledge to know what to look for, or they aren't telling us...
DocMoreau



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by DocMoreau
 


the world has 6 billion people. The number of the mau mau situation is a sliver of a sliver.

much less the grandchild of one of those people, coming to the Us, and beating another 350 million people out to be POTUS.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Churchill has less happy connotations for Mr Obama than those American politicians who celebrate his wartime leadership. It was during Churchill's second premiership that Britain suppressed Kenya's Mau Mau rebellion. Among Kenyans allegedly tortured by the colonial regime included one Hussein Onyango Obama, the President's grandfather.


Items on loan are sometimes given back when the new administration comes in. This could be Obama just putting in his own decor or there could be more to it. THIS is why people are concerned about dual citizenships and divided loyalties. If the reason that statue is gone is for some Kenyan thing ... then the old Kenyan thing is of more concern then showing good relations with Americas allies now.

Then again .. it may just be a changing of decor. Dunno'.
But it is interesting.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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It's possible Brown would like to establish as good a relationship with Obama as he had with Bush. I don't foresee any problems with that. Anglo-American relations have been good for some centuries now. As far as the two men having a real rapport, we shall see after Brown's visit. However, I can see no reason why Obama wouldn't want to keep relations with the British as cordial as possible. They are, after all, one of America's main allies.

As far as Obama's Kenyan grandfather goes, I doubt he would hold any grudge toward the present Prime Minister, who had nothing to do with what happened during that colonial period. It's a dark chapter in Britain's past, but what country hasn't got some shameful history?

IMO Obama is proud of his African roots, but he's not going to jeopardize U.S. relations with any allies out of a need for revenge. People keep trying to read something sinister into his being half African, in a way that they don't with presidents who have had European ancestors. Obama is 100% American.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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LOL it could even simply be that Obama has two young kids and he wants to send it back before it gets broken.




posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


true, I see what you are saying. But then that plays into the six degrees of separation.

There were fewer people in 1952 as well.

ccording to UN estimates, the national total rose by 28% from 6,416,000 in 1950 to 8,189,000 in 1960; by 37% to 11,253,000 in 1970; by 46% to 16,466,000 in 1980; by 36% to 22,400,000 in 1987; and by 24% to an estimated 27,885,000 in 1995. About 75% of the population lives on only 10% of the land.

www.nationsencyclopedia.com...

and the population has risen to about 32 million in Kenya today.

So yes, small world. But it is not like Barack Obama ran for President in order to avenge his Grandfather by getting the head of Churchill out of the Oval Office.

He more than likely made the decision for personal reasons regarding his Grandfather. I doubt that all the Merlins in Britain need to be casting spells to keep the US bonded as an ally.

Do we really need to have Gordon Brown pledge allegiance to Obama over the relics of one John Bright?

DocMoreau



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
THIS is why people are concerned about dual citizenships and divided loyalties. If the reason that statue is gone is for some Kenyan thing ... then the old Kenyan thing is of more concern then showing good relations with Americas allies now.



Actually that's not true, Obama doesn't have dual citizenship.

factcheck.org

Back on topic,

If the leader of a foreign nation was responsible for detaining and torturing my grandfather, I wouldn't want a bust of him in my house either. I don't think it has anything to do with US-Brit relations, as much as it has to do with him respecting his grandfather's struggles.

I myself am a big fan of Winston Churchill, after all he was a hero for the allies of WWII. However we must remember that not everything he did was gold; the western world was into some very shady business back then (and still is).



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by DocMoreau
 


I think the phrase "reading of the runes" is just a poetic way of saying "feeling out the situation". And the word "fealty" is another poetic way of saying friendship or solidarity. I think the author is just being colorful.


"some Kenyan thing". From the source:



Indeed a bust of Mr Lincoln now sits in the Oval Office where Epstein's Churchill once ruled the roost.


I don't think Lincoln is Kenyan.


Originally posted by drwizardphd
If the leader of a foreign nation was responsible for detaining and torturing my grandfather, I wouldn't want a bust of him in my house either.


Same here. And when I saw that bust... Well, I wouldn't have than in my house at all. It's fairly hideous.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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Churchill ordered the crackdown of the Mau-Mau rebellion in Kenya - Colonial officials detained Obama's grandfather and tortured him. Doubt his family would welcome the sight of Churchill in the Oval Office.

Obviously, Obama struggled yesterday to praise the special relationship after majority of his African family hate the British. Secondly - most of his foreign policy affairs result from problems of the British Empire (Palestine and Pakistan.)

Am I reading into trivial matters too much? Maybe, but Obama is directly affected by the consequences of the British Empire.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Hardly suprising when you consider what happened to Grampa Obama.

So I suppose it will be covered in graffiti and stolen within the week once it returns to the UK.





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