Democrats Delay Bill Release to Conceal Details

Originally posted by skeptic1
All of this seems to be happening behind closed doors thanks to one group of power hungry politicians.

I have been reading about this on the Internet and have had access to the various revisions of the bill on the Internet for a couple weeks now. I have been hearing on the news every little objection and speech and thought from the politicians until I'm pretty sick of hearing about it.

Now, how is it that it "seems" like everything is happening behind closed doors to you?

A lot of people want this bill passed. Because you and I find ourselves in the uncomfortable position of not wanting this bill, that doesn't mean that things are happening behind closed doors. It just means we aren't getting what we want this time.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I am generalizing the Dems and the few Repubs as the "power hungry group". I have watched the same news bites and I am just as sick as you are.

However, the negotiations, the promises, the vote, the hesitation to provide the bill to the public and others in Congress....that is what I am talking about with "behind closed doors".

If this is going to be shoved upon us, we should have time to read it and then be able to pick up the phones and object to our representatives before this is rushed to the floor for a vote.

[edit on 2/13/2009 by skeptic1]

reply to post by skeptic1


Pick up your phone NOW. You have time. That doesn't mean you're going to get your way, but you can have your voice be heard.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I've called all of mine....all the representatives in my state and my 2 Senators, one who I know personally. My Senators will not vote for this (I got that assurance). My representatives and the others from my state....well, they don't answer the phone.

reply to post by skeptic1


I've been calling, emailing and faxing all week. Except for Sen. Mary Landrieu, all of my congress critters are against this bill.

reply to post by redhatty


My Senators are Republicans and they aren't going to vote for it. I've called representatives and e-mailed them all. Most are Dems in the House and most will vote for it....the others, I don't know.

These people don't work for us; they work for themselves.

If you know what you want and have let your reps know, why do you need to read the bill? Think you might change our mind?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you know what you want and have let your reps know, why do you need to read the bill? Think you might change our mind?

God forbid anybody should want to be a more informed voter. We should just believe whatever were told instead.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by GuyverUnit I]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You don't care about what is in it? About how your tax dollars are being spent?

After reading how angry some people are over this, which is understandable, I have one question.

So if it doesn't pass, what happens next?

reply to post by ravenshadow13


It will pass; they are voting in the House now.

Of course, if you listen to the talking heads, if it doesn't pass, we will all go to hell in a handbasket.

In reality, if this didn't pass, it might give both sides a chance to hash out a logical and reasonable common-sense based bill that would focus on job creation, tax cuts for individuals and businesses, and programs which would stimulate the ecomony.

Well it passed the House

Yea 246
Nay 183

Not 1 republican voted for it and 7 dems voted against it too

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you know what you want and have let your reps know, why do you need to read the bill? Think you might change our mind?

Presenting a well researched argument against parts of the bill I don't agree with is a much better tactic than just whining and saying I don't like it.

Being able to show, through research options that are a better alternative to the line items in the bill help my congress critters have a better argument to the rest of their respective chambers

You don't think that everyone simply calls faxes or emails a simple "Don't do this" do you?

Some of us are very active and have meaningful conversations with those we elect, I know I do

Originally posted by skeptic1
You don't care about what is in it? About how your tax dollars are being spent?

Of course I do. As I've said, I've had access to the various revisions for 2 weeks now. I've been reading it and reading about it. And I don't want this particular bill to pass. But I've done my part. And I'm in the minority. Nothing I do is going to keep this from happening. I'm just an observer at this point. As are all of you. You just haven't realized it yet.

By the way, the US House Committee on Rules waived the 48 hour provision. They voted on it all legal-like.

Source

Note at the top of the page,

Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings...
US Constitution, Article 1, Section 5, Clause 7

Originally posted by GuyverUnit I
God forbid anybody should want to be a more informed voter. We should just believe whatever were told instead.

I'm a very informed voter. My point is, if you've already made up your mind on the bill, which it's clear you have, why do you need to read it?

And did you read it before you made up your mind? Or did you take the words of the talking heads? Did you just believed what you were told?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

OK, back to the point of this thread....

Here's some interesting things I found in here:

appropriations.house.gov...
Homeland Security Appropriations.

REAL ID: $100 million, $50 million above 2008, to help states to comply with REAL ID, which requires state licenses to meet new standards in order to be used for federal identification purposes. This includes $50 million for DHS to develop a data "hub" that links state DMVs to other record-keeping agencies to allow State governments to verify applicants' identity documents when they apply for new drivers licenses.

Most States are against this Real ID as it is up to the state according to the tenth amendment that states:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This includes licensing such a drivers license, marriage license, and identification. State constitutions across the entire US have this power reserved to their jurisdictions and the REAL ID is a violation thereof.

There's a heel of alot more..But if they're slipping this Draconian crap in then god knows what else. This stuff is in this bill. Stuff that most Americans are against.



[edit on 13-2-2009 by projectvxn]