What are we Saving Planet Earth For or Who?

Is it not true that mankind is nothing more than a festering infestation on this Planet. That rather than trying to save the environment that we should be actively reducing the Worlds overburdening population that is hurtling along unchecked. Are we not literally sowing the seeds of our own destruction?

Should we not be doing all we can to reduce the overburden. I cannot simply see the point of telling people in the UK to turn down their thermostat to save the Planet or tell Americans to get out of their gas guzzlers when we breed like rabbits. It is time not just for individual responsibility but the responsibilty of Governments to act in the most appropriate way.

I am not advocating mass murder or any such nonsense but steps must be taken to reduce the population, forcibly if necessary as this is the only real answer to the problem. We can try and be as green as we like but 7 billion and rising that wont be able to feed themselves soon will result in massive suffering.

Man is a very resiliant animal an no disease or war will not reduce the numbers and neither should those means should be used or contemplated. What is required is education, resposiblity and open minds with a view to seeing the bigger picture.

I'm not convinced that population itself is the problem. Prevailing habits of economics and government, most of which could be replaced with enough effort (or, if you're so inclined, force) seem to me to be the culprits. We actually have abundant resources on this planet, but we fail to utilize them properly. Our methods of product manufacturing and food growth & distribution all work against human welfare and, ultimately, the environment. We've stacked ourselves on top of one another in overflowing metropolises (though even these have benefits), built factory after factory with an absence of environmental concern, encouraged the mass production of meat (which requires an appalling amount of water and grain and churns out pollution to match), trawled and polluted the oceans to the point of death...need I go on? And these are all instances of poor planning and execution, not population overgrowth. We actually have plenty of food to go around (though it never makes it into every hand) and other vital resources are present. We aren't at the "point of no return" yet--there are still remedial measures that can be taken--but this isn't a road we want to continue down.

Is it not true that mankind is nothing more than a festering infestation on this Planet.

No, it's not true. We are the natural product of a natural system, and what we create is a natural and emergent property of that natural system.

Are we not literally sowing the seeds of our own destruction?

No. Overpopulation is a self-solving problem. The Earth has plenty of resources for humanity well into the foreseeable future. The problem is one of infrastructure and technology needed to harvest those resources. If population outstrips out infrastructure - then we will have increased competition for resources. War and starvation are unacceptable to us where we are now, but they are methods of population control. When the population dips back down below a point to where our society is sustainable - then we will begin the cycle over again.

Should we not be doing all we can to reduce the overburden. I cannot simply see the point of telling people in the UK to turn down their thermostat to save the Planet or tell Americans to get out of their gas guzzlers when we breed like rabbits. It is time not just for individual responsibility but the responsibilty of Governments to act in the most appropriate way.

Overpopulation is not the problem. America, the UK, Japan, France, etc... first world nations are actually experiencing negative population growth. The only reason our population is increasing is because of immigration. From Latin America in the US's case, and from the Middle East in the UK's case. Compare this to Japan who, for a long time, has put up strict immigration controls - they are now in a state of perceived crisis, as there are not enough young people to support their elderly population. They've even looking to automated robotic nursing assistance.

The third world and pre-industrial nations of the world are the ones who are truly pushing the population envelope - but they also use the least amount of resources.

Sooo.... how we manage resources in the first world is very much a prime issue. Not population control.

I am not advocating mass murder or any such nonsense but steps must be taken to reduce the population, forcibly if necessary as this is the only real answer to the problem.

Really? I'd say education and research are the only real way to answer the problem. Education and research which brings us innovations such a the Haber Process that currently produces 1/3 of all the food we eat.. or Shmeat, a process for generating massive cloned sheets of animal flesh in a lab that will reduce the land needed to raise livestock substantially.

And just for the record, we haven't even begun to tap this planet's natural resources. 73% of the planet lies untouched, and most of that unmapped even. What lies below the ocean is the most geologically active area on the earth - and we have identified vents that spew commercial grade silver, copper, iron, gold, etc. So we know these deposits are there. We just haven't gone after them yet. We need technology and research to create the processes needed to harvest them. Further, we have scarcely begun to explore colonizing under the ground or colonizing the ocean floor.

We do NOT face a problem of the Earth being unable to sustain us... we face a problem of our SOCIETY not being able to sustain us.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by Lasheic]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
a view to seeing the bigger picture.

When I look at the big picture.. I can not help but fall back on this Carlin Clip I once watched long ago..

Disclaimer--May not be suited for younger viewers


The arogence of man, will it end? Will we ever grow up as a race? I ask myself this often. And as humans, we are very young. Both mentally and spiritually.
I learn alot when listening to Carlin! Rest his energy!
I think of this in a serious way.. Yet again, its something we can laugh a bit at. When it comes to the small things.. We shouldnt worry so much.
I don't think humans are much of a threat to this world.. As we are much more of a threat to ourselfs.
I strongly belive also that the Earth does not belong to humans. We do not "own" this world.
Yet we go through our days thinking this planet is all ours.. And we can do what we like.. We hold land, we sell land. Yet in the big picture its all human aggrogance.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by zysin5]

Originally posted by magicmushroom

I am not advocating mass murder or any such nonsense but steps must be taken to reduce the population, forcibly if necessary as this is the only real answer to the problem.

What is required is education, resposiblity and open minds with a view to seeing the bigger picture.

It's greed and not overpopulation that is destroying the planet.

I just don't like the sound of making poplulation reduction mandatory. I just see flashs of euthansia, forced steralization and birth control in the water. Sick or weak? Cut them out. Mentally ill or handicapped? Good-bye. It's greedy thinking like this that scares me. There is enough land, food, water whatever to go around. Most people I know including myself live to excess. It's not that there isn't enough, there just isn't enough effort (excuse preschool talk) to share what we have.

People are educated on the matter and are just not in a position to do anything about it. It takes unfortunately the people in power to change the way we as large groups can live and conduct ourselves on this planet. You can only work with the tools you have been given.

can you say eugenics?

If we are festering infestation on this planet, the planet itself will be the thing that puts us back in place.
nature has a habit of culling populations when they grow to large.

we don't need help to do it.
Nature is a master at doing what needs doing.

Originally posted by thewhiterabbit23
You can only work with the tools you have been given.

That is until you create new tools to work with!
As I belive strongly we as the people have not been given the correct tools, nor have we been taught in the ways that people where taught for 1000's of years just to get by..

In this day and age, the tools we have been given have been changed, and taken away from us..

How many people in this world would last more than a few months if the power grid was taken offline?
There are many ATS members who would do pretty damn good..
Yet the rest of the world, would have a hard time..
Suddenly all those 3rd world soceities would have one up on most 1st world soceities..

when life gives you lemons.. You go out and find someone with vodka, and have a party!!!

But in all honesty, you are correct in your post.. But we have the tools.
Its just most people have thrown all those old tools away for something high tech.. When the best tools you can ever have is the tool within your skull!!!
I belive there is hope for this world.. We just need to find a way to reach those people who are so set in their ways.. A way to reach out, and unteach them all they have learned.. To unlearn all that crap that has been pushed on us for so long..
And its not easy to do.. As a race.. We are like children. Children walking this earth with a loaded 45.. Or running with sissors!!
You know what I mean?

Originally posted by munkey66
Nature is a master at doing what needs doing.

Very true!! And this is why I have such great respect for this Earth! And nature in general! We are only guests here..
And we need to start acting like better guests to a place we are visiting..
This is home for now..
But you ever notice when large groups of people gather.. and how much trash and waste is left over from such large groups?
Its rather sad to see how we are in large groups..

You set one person down by themselfs, and you can have a good chat with them.. But once you get that mob group.. Things start acting really werid.. I try to stay out of large groups of people. Ive seen first hand what happens..
And Nature will repair anything we do.. Nature is a self correcting system!
Humans in the long run.. Are not that big of a threat..
That is until we break out the nukes.. And the big weapons.. But then again.. The World can repair itself.. It has billions of years to do so after we are gone..
Much thought can go into this when looking at the big picture..
The question is.. Will we be part of that world? Or will we be phased out?


Edit-- Added a couple thoughts.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by zysin5]

Zysin5, Thanks for the clip and I agree with you and him. Mankind is but a mere speck in the ocean and its true our arrogance knows no bounds. One day mother nature will smote us off this World that we think we own and control.