Human-animal hybrids fail in cloning experiment

Humans from livestock...makes you wonder.

"This very important paper suggests that livestock oocytes are extremely unlikely to be suitable as recipients for use in human nuclear transfer"

www.reuters.com...

Animal-human clones don't work, U.S. company finds
Mon Feb 2, 2009 2:47pm EST
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Researchers who tried to use mouse, cow and rabbit eggs to make human clones said on Monday the effort failed to produce workable embryos but added that they showed human cloning should work in principle.

Mixing human and animal cells does not appear to program the egg properly, said Dr. Robert Lanza of Massachusetts-based Advanced Cell Technology.

But using human cells did reprogram the egg cell or oocyte and activate the genes needed to make a viable embryo, Lanza and colleagues reported in the journal Cloning and Stem Cells.

Several teams have tried to make animal-human hybrids as a source of embryonic stem cells, the master cells of the body. Because human eggs are scarce -- it requires a surgical procedure to get them from a woman -- some scientists came up with the idea of using animal egg cells.

The cloning technique is called somatic cell nuclear transfer. The nucleus is removed from an egg cell and replaced with the nucleus from another type of cell from the donor animal or person who is to be cloned.

Done right, the process starts the egg growing and dividing as if it had been fertilized by a sperm, but the resulting embryo carries mostly the DNA of the donor.

"The idea was to simply to plunk a patient's DNA into an empty cow or rabbit egg -- and presto -- you reprogram the DNA back into a stem cell," Lanza said in a telephone interview.

But teams that have tried to do this have always ended up with what looks like a cell dividing over and over to become an embryo, but which eventually fizzles out.

"For the last decade, we've carried out literally hundreds of experiments trying to create patient-specific stem cells using animal eggs," Lanza said.

BEAUTIFUL HYBRIDS

"We got beautiful little hybrid embryos, but it didn't work no matter how hard we tried."

A mouse-human hybrid petered out after just one division. The cow and rabbit human hybrids went further, but stopped at the point when maternal DNA is supposed to kick in and turn the ball of cells into a proper embryo, Lanza said.

Lanza's team used a new method called global gene expression analysis to see which genes were turned on and off as the eggs grew.

"We never had the tools before to actually look inside the cell and see what's going on," Lanza said. It appears that using the egg of another species turns off the genes needed to make an embryo instead of turning them on, he said.

But the human-human clone did turn on the right genes, although it, too stopped dividing before it could produce stem cells, Lanza said.

"We see exactly the same genes turned on in a normal embryo are actually turned on in a human clone," he said.

Ian Wilmut of the University of Edinburgh, one of the scientists who cloned the first mammal, Dolly the sheep, and editor of the journal, called the results disappointing.

"This very important paper suggests that livestock oocytes are extremely unlikely to be suitable as recipients for use in human nuclear transfer," Wilmut said in a statement.

But Lanza said it might be possible to use other methods to create "banks" of stem cells that match the several hundred tissue types found among humans.

This could include cloning humans, using a single cell from growing embryos used for fertility treatment, or a new method called induced pluripotent stem cells, made by taking a sample of skin and reprogramming the cells to act like embryonic stem cells, Lanza said.

I'm pretty sure they already have cloned humans before. I had a person who looked exactly like me pop up in various situations over the years with different people who know me, and they absolutely didn't believe that I wasn't anywhere near them on that occasion. This person, when I went to rehab because of a pot conviction, had been going around to N.A. meetings posing as a heroine addict, and people who came to do meetings at the rehab center kept recognizing me, and this one dude like really got in my face (you know how some of those people can be...) and was like "WHY ARE YOU IN DENIAL!?!? IT WAS YOU, MAN!!! IT WAS YOU!!!"

A few of my friends, like 4 years after that, swore I was stalking them at their college classes, wearing disguises and sitting in the back of their classrooms.

And people who I've never met before always come up to me and go "Hey man! Remember me? From yada yada? Oh man, no wonder you don't remember. You were so messed up, man!"

Even though I know for certain that I( couln't have forgotten all of these people's faces at parties and such. I don't go out that much.

So... cloning has most likely already happened... and we don't really know how advanced our science is, because of veils upon veils of compartmentalized secrecy.

Thank YOU, National Security Act of 1947 and Project Paperclip!!!

[edit on 3-2-2009 by dunwichwitch]

There is a terminology problem in this article.

The experimentals they are describing are not hybrids. They are CYBRIDS.

If they did develop, they would be humans pure and simple. Humans with a different mtDNA signature, but humans all the same. Fully human nuclear DNA with a cellular power pack that was not human.

A hybrid would be a combine the nuclear DNA of two animals that do not share the same lineage. Using the mtDNA (ovum) of the primary animal. A human and a sheep for example. Which exists BTW. Yes, that is correct there is an actual sheeple.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

reply to post by dunwichwitch

Hmmmmmm.
Maybe there is human cloning; either that or you have multiple personalities and you don't remember the "other half"
hahaha.

I've been told similar things before, maybe we all have an evil twin out there.

All about Doubles, Clones & Aliens.

Article:
battleforworld.tripod.com...

Photos:
battleforworld.tripod.com...

reply to post by dunwichwitch


I don't want to jack the thread here but I've had more than a few people tell me they knew someone that looked exactly like me. I always kinda think 'poor bastard'. I've never seen anyone I thought looked like me.

Human animal hybrids (can't get GW out of my head now), I think we have enough problems. I hope it doesn't work for the animals sake if nothing else.

Again - what the article is refering to is NOT a hybrid.

A hybrid is when you combine the nuclear of two different things. A tomato with a fish gene. A pig that has DNA to grow a human liver. A recombinant between species that cannot recombine in the natural world.

A cybrid is when you take the nuclear DNA out of an ovum and then put a complete nuclear DNA from something else into that ovum and let it develop - if it can.

A clone comes close to being a cybrid - however a true clone would need to have the same ovum type as the original person. An often overlooked matter. All the same they aren't really cybrids because the ovum being used is human.

An ovum of another species in which the nuclear DNA has been removed, and then DNA not from that species is inserted into it instead. What you would have is NOT a hybrid. If this was a human in a rabbit ovum, you'd have a human. If this was a human reproduced from a chimpanzee ovum, it would still be a human.

This is REALLY important for you all to start understanding. It has political ramifications. Cybrids will be happening at some point. If people do not understand that a cybrid is just a human, what will happen is that societies with tendencies to caste structures will create a new class of "non-human" humans to encompass these people.

Understanding this BEFORE it starts working, will save the human race from another several hundred years of brutal stupidity towards another group.

I'm not educating you because it is just fun to explain the difference between yDNA, mtDNA and nDNA to people.

[edit on 2009/8/18 by Aeons]

Aeons nailed it. Awesome explanation.

I was going to repaste this part:

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Researchers who tried to use mouse, cow and rabbit eggs to make human clones said on Monday the effort failed to produce workable embryos but added that they showed human cloning should work in principle. "

They were using the eggs of other species to try and clone humans, instead of using human eggs because that would be human cloning and the jury is still out on whether we should do that.


Umm... here's a good comparison. Remember all the tests they're doing with the Tasmanian Tiger/Thylacine? (/mqv578) To summarize- they're using the eggs of mice and inserting the genes of thylacines in order to try and recreate some genetic material.

So technically the embryos are hybrid (part mouse part human) but not really hybrids. They just want to see which genes become activated.

reply to post by Dbriefed


unfortunetly they are real. They combined the dna of humans with animals. most failed.7 succeded. they recaptured most of them. 3 are left. i think that they are looking for me now, so im laying low. everybody knows im not normal. all my friends, even my family. they are afraid of me but they dont know why. i can see in the dark, have a very sharp sense of smell. my hearing is above average. im strong. im very skinny cause i have a very fast metabolism. yet i can pick up a can lift a two hundred pound man and throw him. im very light sensitive. i have two sets of canine teeth on my bottom jaw. i have 6 canines total. i dont know what to do. people are following me. im scared. any advice would be most helpful. they have bugged my laptop and phone. i found them. i dont know what to do.

Originally posted by Aeons
There is a terminology problem in this article.

The experimentals they are describing are not hybrids. They are CYBRIDS.

If they did develop, they would be humans pure and simple. Humans with a different mtDNA signature, but humans all the same. Fully human nuclear DNA with a cellular power pack that was not human.

A hybrid would be a combine the nuclear DNA of two animals that do not share the same lineage. Using the mtDNA (ovum) of the primary animal. A human and a sheep for example. Which exists BTW. Yes, that is correct there is an actual sheeple.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Humans, who developed inside an animal egg. Humans are meant to develop inside HUMAN EGGS. I read this results in the clones being 99.9% human. We should not be creating clones that could not be fully human. How do you think it will feel to have developed inside an animal egg? How does this effect someone's health, sanity and intelligence later in life, to be "developed" (like an experiment) inside a cow egg? It's unethical.

THESE ARE NOT HYBRIDS.

Seriously guys. You need to get this through your head, because this debate MUST be sane to prevent real problems.

A hybrid would be a case of nuclear DNA, gender chromosomes, being blended. \

The pieces of your DNA that say "hey you've got legs, and they go down there." Or "hey, your gonads need to drop."

Human nuclear DNA inside of another creatures ovum where that creatures nDNA has been removed is a CYBRID.

A CYBRID.

If such a person was born, they would still be A PERSON. Not a partial person. Not a person with floppy bunny ears. A full out human.

If they managed to get a human to develop in another creatures ovum, that person would have a different type of metabolism.

The fact that any scientists think that the parts that provide energy to the way a creature grows, lives, moves, develops isn't very important really doesn't say a lot about how smart they are about this subject.

It actually is a pretty good demonstration of institutionalized and internalized gender bias.

No matter how many times this experiment fails, they keep trying because.... man it'd be so much easier.

After all that female only contribution doesn't *really* matter.

The energy use of humans is unique. They aren't trying the animals that are the most likely to work because...well they are actually harder to get ovum from.

The whole thing is offensive, and ultimately *very* stupid, and insanely bad science.


Sorry guys - I started ranting on this before I realized I'd already ranted on this before!

Originally posted by shad0wmarine
reply to post by Dbriefed

 

unfortunetly they are real. They combined the dna of humans with animals. most failed.7 succeded. they recaptured most of them. 3 are left. i think that they are looking for me now, so im laying low. everybody knows im not normal. all my friends, even my family. they are afraid of me but they dont know why. i can see in the dark, have a very sharp sense of smell. my hearing is above average. im strong. im very skinny cause i have a very fast metabolism. yet i can pick up a can lift a two hundred pound man and throw him. im very light sensitive. i have two sets of canine teeth on my bottom jaw. i have 6 canines total. i dont know what to do. people are following me. im scared. any advice would be most helpful. they have bugged my laptop and phone. i found them. i dont know what to do.

Great. What's your mtDNA line?

wake me when we get mutant ninja turtles