A huge challenge

I would like to see a forum where all input would have to come from the participants own point of view. It would have to be done on the honor system because all post would have to be original thought. The poster would not be allowed to listen to the radio, podcast, TV or have any outside influence by the MSM; that includes the talking heads. No quotes from Sean or Rush, CNN, Fox, etc. All information would have to be received from general Internet surfing and the reading of books, newspapers and local news is allowed if “read” online.

I would love to see and hear what people would have to say when they are using their own critical thinking skills instead of regurgitating the views and opinions of people would are being paid to push an agenda.

I know this is a huge challenge but do you think it could be done?

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


i don't know if that was sarcasm or not but there are alot of threads like that. Just look around. if you would like to see some cheack out my stuff on my profile.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


I agree. Most of the solutions posted here are just regurgitations of what others say. Many of these things that are mentioned should be done. However, most of the proposed fixes will do very little to fix things. For the most part they should be a part of how things need to be done after the system is fixed. Below is something I have been proposing repeatedly for many months. During that time, I have not gotten a serious reply either for or against my proposal. I have not seen a proposal of my breadth being proposed by anyone else in the world. I also think it is the only way to put this mess behind us and start moving forward. So here goes,once again.

Everyone wants to let the system fail. You do realize that means every bank goes bust, every dollar in the bank is gone (unless you want FDIC to pick up the bill, which mean taxpayers). With no money and no credit, then will be no jobs, no food, no clean water, nothing. A collapse to the system, while it would give banks there just deserves, would mean unimaginable suffering for all people. That includes everyone; no matter how well off you may be in your current situation.

In crafting a solution we need to look at what got us here. In general you can blame the debt based money system. To solve this alone would mean changing the monetary system 100%, which would be great. However, in changing the system you have the same problems that we have today: People cannot repay their debts and without forgiveness, a new money system will not do them any good and will leave us in the same situation as we face now.

Basically if you want to revitalize the economy, you need to handle the personal debt situation. People can't spend money they don't have, banks can't lend to those who can't repay them. Those who can get credit these days do not need it. So we are caught in a classic catch-22. The only way out without sending us back to the 19th century, is to bail out either the banks or the people. I prefer a solution where you bail out the people. This will ultimately help the banks as well.

What I propose is to set up a government bank. This bank would buy all outstanding consumer debt at mark to model values. They would also become the first source for future consumer loans. Once they buy all the debt they turn around and make it affordable for the debt holder to repay their obligation. This may mean some debt forgiveness and lowering interest rates, whatever it takes.

I figure if done on this large scale basis, then they could buy all the debt for an average of 85-90 cents on the dollar. The banks and other lenders would then pretty much be made whole and they could pay back the previous bailout funds. At this point you ratchet down the reserve requirements etc and limit the kind of loans they can make in the future. I see a future where they concentrate on business loans and consumer deposits. You also keep them under close scrutiny so this does not reoccur. There would be some banks that would still fail despite this, so let them fail.

As for the consumer, all of a sudden they have room to breathe. I think to meet my mandate of debt affordability you would have to write down the loans to an average of 65-70%. This leaves a hole of about 20% which the government bank would recoup through future interest payments. The government bank would essentially be funded with 0-1% loans from the FED unless we come to our senses and let the government print their own money.

For example a homeowner has a $200,000 loan. Gov. bank would buy it for $180,000 and modify it to $140,000 with a 4% interest rate. Over a 30 year period the government would get paid back over $240,000 with interest, yielding a profit to the government of about $60,000. Meanwhile the payment for the homeowner drops to $750 per month from about $1125 per month. So the government wins, the consumers win and the banks give up these future profits for their past malfeasance. In return the banks, at least most of them, can continue operations as viable institutions, albeit in a more limited fashion.

Only obstacle in making this a profitable or break even endeavor for the government is the fact that people will want to move and some will still default on the lower payments. To solve this there would have to be some profit sharing agreement on resales, until the original principal is earned off. You would allow the consumer to keep enough to facilitate a move. For the foreclosures the government would take possession and then write the new mortgages which change the outcome to the government very little.

If you don't want the government bank to be ongoing, then at some point, you resell the mortgages/debt to the private market, thus recouping most of the money. You could also let the banks resume normal lending once all the debt has been bought by the government.

Only reason this will not work is people being stuck on principle, as it could be looked at as anti capitalist. However there is no solution, including letting the banks fail, which will not require massive investment from the government one way or the other. Given that, we might as fix it right and at the lowest long term cost to taxpayers. This proposal achieves this goal and will act as a permanent solution rather than band aids that everyone else proposes.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


*sigh* it's called frustration. Frustration over this being manufactured in such a way that you're right, there is no solution outside of government involvement barring total collapse of the United States and even the world followed by decades of horrors. Frustration over people we by-and-large trusted and sent to Washington supposedly as our representatives not just allowing this to happen, but orchestrating it. Above all else, frustration over seeing the exact same bastards sitting in Washington today, claiming to be trying to fix it all but in reality just throwing handfulls of Earth over the grave of the average American's prosperity and fruitfullness.

As far as my "original" thoughts on the matter go, I can't post them on here without getting a visit from a couple of alphabet agencies.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

Only reason this will not work is people being stuck on principle, as it could be looked at as anti capitalist. However there is no solution, including letting the banks fail, which will not require massive investment from the government one way or the other. Given that, we might as fix it right and at the lowest long term cost to taxpayers. This proposal achieves this goal and will act as a permanent solution rather than band aids that everyone else proposes.

I think your plan makes a lot of sense. We do have another problem though and that is that the people who don't need saving, the few, are not going to go along with us saving the many.

People have been brainwashed to think that everyone that is doing well or is wealthy got that way because they worked hard and the ones that didn't are lazy blood suckers that want to take what belongs to them away.

I spent a over six hours talking with a friend that is convinced that people that don’t succeed in life don't succeed because they are lazy and looking for a hand out. Every time I would ask her where she got her information it would be from someone associated with the MSM. She is so programmed and brainwashed that she can’t see the nose in front of her face with a mirror. When I ask her what is she going to do when the SHTF she just smiled and said that is why I have smart friends like you.

We are on the wrong path and it is going to take a lot of us to get round on to the right one and it is not going to be easy and time is running out.

Have you tried pitching your idea to the Obama (We the People) web site? Heck, take out an ad in the big time newspapers. If it cost too much maybe we can round up some supporting dollars on ATS.

Okay it was just a thought. You guys can calm down now.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Thanks for the thoughts. I also have friends who take the stance that those who have financial troubles only have themselves to blame.

I don't know if this is true all around, but I also find that my friends who have those beliefs also consider themselves the most religous. Each man for their own, don't do anything to help them up, and as a result I am going to heaven to be with Jesus. They get quite disturbed when I mention that the bible states that Jesus wants everyone to give up all their posessions and give them to the less fortunate.

Unfortunately, it won't be until 99% of all people have had everything taken away before they realize that ruling for the whole is the the only thing that will work.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

They get quite disturbed when I mention that the bible states that Jesus wants everyone to give up all their posessions and give them to the less fortunate.

That is because they are caught in the trap. They think that they own the possession but the possessions own them hook, line and sinker.

What is more dangerous owning a snake that you think is poisonous but isn't or one that you think isn't poisonous but is?

Soon we will all learn what is really important in our lives and what isn’t. Soon we recognize all those grand possession for exactly what they are; another item waiting for its trip to the landfill.

When you have to travel light and you have to move fast you will have no trouble leaving those items behind and will have even less trouble deciding between what is a must and what is a want.

The transition will be swift and it will not be sweet. Many will not make it. I just hope that most of us do.