Mother Goddess Cults - were they of single origin?, page 2

posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:03 PM

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Originally posted by redhatty
Considering that Mother Goddess Religions go all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia and the Sumerian Religion, it can be postulated that Mother Goddess worship is the oldest known form of religion.

It makes sense though, since women give birth that they should be associated with creation and would therefore form the basis of primitive belief systems. However, most cultures show evidence of phallus worship too, so they obviously had some ideas of the mechanics, that it takes one of each to procreate. The worship of the phallus has possibly been suppressed more than goddess worship. Latinisation was able to merge the beliefs of many of the goddess cultures using the mother Mary, but the phallus, well that creates difficulties I should imagine and was probably ignored and evidence destroyed, which would account for the relative rarity of male statuary.

redhatty

posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:09 PM

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reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Oh absolutely, Male/Female, Yin/Yang - these are very common and prevalent concepts in ancient religions.

The basis of them is BALANCE.

Just as good/evil. love/hate, etc. the duality was well known even by the ancients.

While the male "essence" (which we now know as sperm) was the spark that formed life, it was the womb that carried the life, and the life burst forth in the mix of water and blood.

Just as the concept behind the ancient fertility celebrations/rituals was to honor the act of creation, the ancients knew that it took both halves of the whole for creation to occur.

ETA: Male statuary? Oh it still exists, what do you think the steeple on the top of a church is representing? It is nothing more than an obelisk, one of the oldest of phallic representations

[edit on 1/30/09 by redhatty]

KilgoreTrout

posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:28 PM

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Originally posted by redhatty
ETA: Male statuary? Oh it still exists, what do you think the steeple on the top of a church is representing? It is nothing more than an obelisk, one of the oldest of phallic representations

I know that it exists in symbolic form but I was referring to the more literal representations which are much older than the obelisk in most cases, but are much rarer finds that the female forms, with the exception of some sites in South American, where they are somewhat plentiful. There is some association with mushroom cults too I believe because of the similarity of form.

Here are some examples of what I mean, but they are few and far between so I struggled.

www.famsi.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

news.bbc.co.uk...

Otherwise I agree, there is a reluctance by some to see that we were 'created' equal, and are therefore equally important in creation and creating.

The earlier you go back in cultural development, the clearer it is that men and women balanced each other out, it is only with increased leisure time, in my opinion, and the adoption of a sedentary lifestyle, that subjugation of the roles of one over the other occured.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

St Udio

posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:52 PM

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in the Baltics, modern Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania, the Pagan Gods & Goddesses included the MotherGoddess & the most favored lesser goddess

see:

... Saule The Sun Goddess

The Giver of Life. She brings Light and Warmth. With her benediction the crops ripen and all are fed.

In Latvian mythologies she is seen racing across the sky in her golden chariot pulled by two fiery steeds, or sailing the sky in her golden boat which sinks into the seas each evening. Saule is Life (daylight) Death (night) and Regeneration (dawn).

The sun is represented by circular motifs with or without rays, multi-petalled flowers, wheels, or circles with a single dot in the center.

Mçness- The Moon God

Brings Light to the Night Sky. He is the Protector of the Night.

Mçness rode the sky wearing starry robes in his silver chariot pulled by gray horses. His disappearance and renewal from New Moon to Full brought well being, light and health. Crops were planted according to his cycles to ensure abundance.

He is fickle in nature as seen by his constant changing for. Originally the consort of Saule, he fell in love with her daughter Austra, who rebuffed his advances, to have her as his own he married the Star Canopy Weaver, but when he look for her among the net of stars, all were there but Austra.

The Moon is represented by crescents, horns and half circles.

Zalktis – The Snake Goddess

The Sentinel of the Gods.

The green snake, Zalktis is a regenerative symbol bringing, life, happiness, fertility (to people and to crops) and prosperity. Saule love her best of all and to harm her was a great crime. If a snake is encountered it is an omen of marriage, birth or good fortune.

The Snake is represented by a stylized ‘S’. coils, spirals, ropes or waving lines and denotes rebirth.

Pçrkons The Thunder God

The Bringer of Fire.
[....]

do you see/understand that the Goddess' ranked over the male gods?
the Goddess was; The giver of life

the 'Zalktis', a green or glass snake, the 're-generative' attribute ->
based on the shedding of it's skin, was a representation of reincarnation
to some thinkers...but in any case Zaltkis was 'most beloved' by Saule,
the goddess& giver of Life.

just more examples of how the Goddess & serpent figured big in ancient & Pagan pantheon of dieties... based on the expressions of the natural world around our ancestors

[edit on 30-1-2009 by St Udio]

SS,Naga

posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:39 PM

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reply to post by St Udio

Very good post, St. Udio. It takes a bit of insight to go back to the Origin of things (subject), and not get lost in the box-like container of one's own limited belief-structures.

If any have an open mind, and don't Mind Opening it further, peruse the following link, in Full: (please note, christianity is referred to as what it actually is, a paganistic cult)
THE SERPENT-GODDESS CULT(S)

Mother Mary is El, the "dragon queen"
It is no surprise, given its origins in Babylon, that the Roman Church would so emphasize the importance of "Mary", the goddess figure, and its version of El or Queen Semiramis. El was also known as "May" or "Mother May" and so we have May Day, one of the most important ritual days of the year for the serpent cult/Illuminati.

The Illuminati-created creed of Communism has its day of celebration and military parades on May Day for the same reason (see ...'And The Truth Shall Set You Free' for the detailed background to the Illuminati origins of Communism). On the night of April 30th, Satanists perform the ritual of Walpurgis to the Goddess of Walpurgisnacht or "May Day Eve". She was such a popular deity in Germany as the May Queen, Walpurga, that she was encompassed by Christianity under the name "Saint" Walpurga, and a fictional story produced to justify this.2

Morgyn la Faye in the King Arthur stories is another version of El, as in Maer (Mary) gyn (woman) of the Fey (deadly serpent).3 Mary Woman of the Deadly Serpent - "Mother Mary" of Christianity.

(www: Children of the Matrix)

Also, please click and read my first posted link, which is pertaining to the etiology of the Goddess/Serpent cult worship:
THE WOMAN AND THE SERPENT

Nothing like denying ignorance, eh? Perhaps this site should better choose the actual insight mode most presented: "Death Before Truth."
It's what I run up against, past the 'material point-of-proof' responses. I understand people think the physical sciences are their absolutes, whereas, in 'reality,' it's not even half the picture. Some can see beyond the visibly obvious. The Invisible Rules the Visible: As Above, So Below; As Within, So Without. This is a very complex concept for many to wrap their minds around.

Read the material, and do some research. It won't be long before you're sent running, or pouting. The Truth is fearsome, and denial is the greatest protection from it.

Also, I'm not responsible in entirety for the content of links I provide: obviously, many think they are pure entertainment: like kindergarten (imo).

"Death Before Truth!"

[edit on 30-1-2009 by SS,Naga]

St Udio

posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:10 PM

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Originally posted by SS,Naga
reply to

If any have an open mind, and don't Mind Opening it further, peruse the following link, in Full: (please note, christianity is referred to as what it actually is, a paganistic cult)
(imo).

to tell the truth, i can't commit the mystical Gnostics or the mystical Kabbalists...to any sensible form in my view of the world...

it all gets too exotic & too confounding for me to grasp...
mostly because of the esoteric compounded meanings of words.
Its all more like an academic endeavor than a practice of living.

Now i do understand the Kundalini, the force that has been bastardized into
the serpent symbol,
and the coiled-serpent as a pre-electron microscope representation of the
double-helix DNA

i did scan over the links provided when you provided them..., thanks

Hanslune

posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by SS,Naga

One comment

The Illuminati-created creed of Communism has its day of celebration and military parades on May Day for the same reason

International Workers' Day is the commemoration of the Haymarket Massacre in Chicago in 1886, when Chicago police fired on workers during a general strike for the eight hour day, killing a dozen demonstrators. In 1889, the first congress of the Second International, meeting in Paris for the centennial of the French Revolution and the Exposition Universelle, following a proposal by Raymond Lavigne, called for international demonstrations on the 1890 anniversary of the Chicago protests.

kidflash2008

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune

Mr Wilson's theory is the Neanderthals were advanced in the arts and the science of watching the stars. He thinks they were in tune with nature, much like the shamans of many cultures are today. He does show evidence that they were much more intelligent than thought. My one problem with the book is he spends to little time on the Neanderthals themselves, but the buildup of evidence to support some of the theory.

One good thing is he doesn't go rushing to an aliens created us theory. It is a better book in the fringe science category.

Hanslune

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by kidflash2008

Well that is nice, no aliens! I presume no Atlantean either? LOL

I haven't heard anything about the book so won't comment. Any people who live off nature will be close to nature, if not they tend to be dead. Most 'modern' people are no longer close to nature because we need a different set of skills to survive. Of course the rural poor of many nations are both not intune with nature and not in tune with modern culture either.

KilgoreTrout

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Hanslune

Mr Wilson's theory is the Neanderthals were advanced in the arts and the science of watching the stars. He thinks they were in tune with nature, much like the shamans of many cultures are today. He does show evidence that they were much more intelligent than thought. My one problem with the book is he spends to little time on the Neanderthals themselves, but the buildup of evidence to support some of the theory.

I've read a number of books by Colin Wilson, I'm particularly fond of his 'Criminal History of Mankind', but he isn't necessarily great at sourcing his theories, they are though good theories. I have used his books as a jumping off point and found support for those theories in more academic texts. I haven't read the book that you refer to, but I will keep an eye out for it as it sounds quite interesting.

SS,Naga

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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(SERPENTINE) CADUCEUS GODDESS

(Source Unknown - Tourist Photo)

An example showing how common the Serpentine Goddess Archetype is in the Unconscious.
City Fathers seemed quite delighted with this beautiful bronze, to display it publicly for all to see. It represents unconscious aspects that few are alert to when casually viewing such mysteries...

Byrd

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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I don't think that's "unconscious." I believe if you check that the artist is very open about his symbolism. It may not be what you think it is, however.

SS,Naga

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Byrd

An artist's interpretation does not encompass the entirety of the archetypal symbolism, especially in something as commonly known as the caduceus, regardless.

I think Jung attempted to convey this, but was perhaps unsuccessful. It certainly is part of the unconscious of humanity, no matter what the given interpretation is. For example, most with a little metaphysical savvy recognize the 'ida & pingala' of eastern teachings (subtle body).

You are welcome to perceive it however you like, as are all. I am merely representing the concept I've given in my posts. And yes, the caduceus is also part of our 'conscious.'
Dwell deep.

PS - I only found the photo on an uncredited photo site, and thought appropriate for presentation. If you know the artist, I would be pleased to review their thoughts (and place credit!). Thanks.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by SS,Naga]

Hanslune

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
I don't think that's "unconscious." I believe if you check that the artist is very open about his symbolism. It may not be what you think it is, however.

One must always be careful in applying symbolism to art. I once observed a poetry writer listening to a series of academics getting up and explaining what they thought the symbolism of his work was. Most were fairly different in their interpretation and I was amused when the writer arose, thanked them all. He then commented on one thing that all the academics had mentioned. His constant use of variationd of the same three words in many of his poems. He said, " I used them because they rhymed".

Logarock

posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 01:45 PM
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There are several manifestations of the mother goddess that have traveled the globe. The common earth folk seemed to use the statue small figurine of a large woman on her knees large oversized breasts. The higher cultures used the seated woman with child in the knee and the multi-breasted model.

On the first it may have been considered just a figure of a woman with large breasts, like many other figures, that were dug up from grave sites around the world. However after finding so many scattered around the earth it was clear that they were finding small humble hand held versions of the big show.

They have even been discovered in the mound cultures of the USA. A crude multi-breasted example was dug up at Lebanon Tennessee in the late 1800's. I will post pictures or a reproduction asap although I have a drawing reproduction found in a book published in 1890 on findings in Tennessee earth works. Although this book does not discuss it, it is clear form this figurine and other clay works that the people responsible were influenced or were colonists form across the Atlantic.

In this form the multi-breasted figure used by the simple farming folk of the world probably represented the earth mother/breast sustaining elemental type deity. The larger cultures used the multi-breast, mostly the older operators like the Egyptians and the Philistines one of which an old statue from this period is spectacular. You many have seen it.

Historians with Cortez recorded many small temples in Mexico that were dedicated to a deity that was described as not unlike "like our own holy mother". I have seen artist reproductions of some of these and they are certainly of the same influential origin as those in the east. Catholic Spain was greatly added in its conquest of central America simply becouse so much of the Babylonian imagery that the church had incorporated was already present in its older forms in the area.

The mother goddess was spread thought the world from Babylonia form its very earliest days. She represents Nimrods wife/mother although the concept has many attachments. In some parts of the world the mother survives in her original black form as her son can be found still venerated in his black form in parts of the world. I have seen examples of this myself in the Dominican Republic where Christ having been adapted to the black son as deliverer of the world can still be found in his original color with the idea of Jesus Christ attached as well with the old idea of chief mourner of the dead as his mother was also known.

See Maya Paris Codex online and study the weeping mother representations, chief mourner. The black son or Nimrod or Gilgamesh also a Chief mourner and quester for everlasting life among other things is seen there and can also be found venerated today in Sumatra where he is still called believe it or not Si Gal Gal or Gilgamesh.

kidflash2008

posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Mr Wilson put in a lot of cites and references in this book. It is also fairly recent, and should be in the new book section of your local library.

Logarock

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by Logarock

books.google.com... DPT1gxMKqcSHasK_O_uuFius&hl=en&ei=61iISYi7FqS8MeSC-M8H&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result