Ahmadinejad congratulates on Hamas' victory over IDF

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Hamas leader in Syria Khaled Mashaal and congratulated him on the "great victory" the Palestinians had achieved over the IDF in the Gaza Strip

Jerusalem Post

I think that no matter which side you line up on in this conflict, we can all agree that Hamas had no chance of inflicting any damage on the IDF. I suppose the view from Iran is that Hamas wasn't wiped off the map, so they won. That's the lie that they're feeding to Hamas when we know full well that Hamas just blends into the civilian population when pressured. It would have been necessary to destroy much of the population of Gaza to finish them off.

Hamas is nothing more than an extension of Iran. This last conflict was yet another chapter in the proxy war between Israel and Iran. I suppose you could say that this was a success for Hamas. From Ahmadinejad's point of view it was a complete success. He was able to bloody Israel's nose in the civilian casualty war in the press, and at the same time kept his hands clean.

Sadly, the people of Gaza don't fully realize that they're just pawns for Iran and that Iran will just keep putting them out in harms way with little care of the damage it causes the Palestinians. That's what pawns are for after all. Just cannon fodder for Iran's agenda which of course is the general control of the middle east and it's oil supply. Although I can't help but wonder if Russia is pulling the strings in Iran.

Amusing but it would seem that we have Russia fighting through Iran, who fights through Gaza. Fighting of course the United States through Israel. The more things change, the more they stay the same. That's one perspective. This game could get really ugly eventually if Iran quits contracting out it's pawn status to a third part and gets directly involved.

How do they asses victory in that region?

Dead and injured on both sides perhaps?

(CNN) -- More than 1,300 Palestinians died and about 5,400 others were wounded during Israel's three-week offensive in Gaza, the Web site of the Palestinian Authority's Central Bureau of Statistics said Monday.

Louay Shabana, head of the agency, said more than 22,000 buildings were damaged or destroyed. Shabana put the economic destruction at more than $1.9 billion.

The fighting largely stopped Sunday with a cease-fire. Israel has said 13 of its citizens -- including 10 soldiers -- were killed during the offensive, which started December 27.

Israel said its offensive was aimed at stopping Hamas militants from firing rockets into southern Israel.

Gaza is in need of humanitarian, economic, sanitary and social help as a result of the Israeli attacks, Shabana said.

The attacks destroyed public sector and private buildings in Gaza, affecting even the United Nations Relief and Works Agency's facilities and halting economic and social services, the statistics agency said.

www.cnn.com...

What an ugly largely one sided battle, one side paid a great price for Mr. Ahmadinejad's victory. There is also a great video Mr. Ahmadinejad should watch on that CNN news page above of Palestinians being pulled from the rubble of his victorious proxy war with Israel.

13 Israelis died, THIRTEEN.

Who are the greater cowards Israelis or Iranians?

Maybe they one day will annihilate each other and this madness will finally end.


[edit on 19-1-2009 by Walkswithfish]

reply to post by dbates


If this is a great victory for Hamas I'd hate to see what a close loss would be. No wonder the Palestinians are so messed up, their bankrollers keep feeding them such utter BS.

reply to post by Walkswithfish


The victory was that Hamas lives and Israel did little more than give itself a very bad reputation.
They achieved no objective they where out to accomplish.

But this isn't over, I am no Nostredamas, but even I can predict "Hamas" firing rockets over the wall agin after the swearing in of Obama, and Israel going in harder and faster than before.

They rejoice because they did not win militarily, as everyone knew going into the war, but they did make it available to voice your opinion about a state of terror without being called an anti-semite, and for the true face of israel to be brodcast worldwide, even on American TV.

It exposed israel for what they really are, a twisted offshoot that does not practice anything close to Judaism.

It reveled they are zionists with no care for human life, who cares if they used civilians as shields, the israelis use Palestinian children as human shields as they go house to house, does either way make it ok to shoot the civilians?

If there was a bank robbery and the robber came out with a wall of human shields to get to the getaway car, and a police officer just threw a grenade in the middle of everyone and says, "its ok, I killed the terrorist!", that officer would be put in jail on murder charges. At least in the US he would.

It made people ask these questions, including WHY THE HELL ARE THEY EVEN THERE.

This is a victory which may have washed the ENORMOUS amounts of israeli propaganda away, I believe that IS a victory in the information war, the on israel is supposed to be winning.

Originally posted by munkey66
But this isn't over, I am no Nostredamas, but even I can predict "Hamas" firing rockets over the wall agin after the swearing in of Obama, and Israel going in harder and faster than before.

Of that I have no doubt. The leaders of Hamas are about a predictable as Old Faithful. They will continue to pinprick the Israelis till the Israelis chop off a limb of the Palestinians again. No one said the leaders of Hamas were very bright.

I wonder when the average Palestinian will figure out that they are being used as fodder for others. I got to imagine it will be pretty soon. They can't get much further down in the mud then Gazans are right now.

Hamas is like little red riding hood and Iran is the big bad wolf- its like Hamas has no idea of Irans true intentions- no matter what happeneds, as long as israel goes down.

im not supporting israel, iran, or hamas...i think all 3 at this point deserve no praise whatsoever...too many innocents involved...too much hate...these countries are battling like in the middle ages...

human life is not precious to these people...they dont cherish it, instead they want to sacrifice it for corrupt and greedy desires..

the world is sick...its only going to get worse

reply to post by breakingdradles


I don't think anyone thinks there is going to be a military victory ever. Israel pretty much destroyed/dismantled anything the Gazans had going for them, which was hardly anything, and they (Gazans) can thank Hamas for that.

Actually, in the long run I think the real winner of this might end up being Fatah/PLO. People in Gaza have got to see Hamas for what it really is: a wannabe power that is almost all talk and no action. They took over a Gaza Strip devoid of Israel once it withdrew from Gaza. They then proceeded to turn it into a springboard for attacks on Israel. Way to go there with the great strategy there Hamas. You finally get control and No occupation and what do you proceed to do? Merely incite the Israelis to come back in and bulldoze most of the strip. And how many IDF troops did Hamas manage to kill in this latest skirmish? Some great resistance there buddy.

I would be greatly surprised if the average Gazan ever looks to Hamas again for any leadership.

reply to post by pavil

anyone who stands up against opression is a hero, no matter how many innocent civilians die, Hamas will still be seen as the saviour in Gaza because there is no one else taking up the cause for them.

Gaza is not meant to survive, thats how the weapons get in in the first place, Israel had Gaza locked up tighter than a fishs backside and still somehow weapons got in.

Oh, I think Hamas can continue for a while. They are very busy teaching their children the glory of killing Jews.

This will not end until one side literally obliterates the other.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

I don't think anyone thinks there is going to be a military victory ever. Israel pretty much destroyed/dismantled anything the Gazans had going for them, which was hardly anything, and they (Gazans) can thank Hamas for that.

Actually, in the long run I think the real winner of this might end up being Fatah/PLO. People in Gaza have got to see Hamas for what it really is: a wannabe power that is almost all talk and no action. They took over a Gaza Strip devoid of Israel once it withdrew from Gaza. They then proceeded to turn it into a springboard for attacks on Israel. Way to go there with the great strategy there Hamas. You finally get control and No occupation and what do you proceed to do? Merely incite the Israelis to come back in and bulldoze most of the strip. And how many IDF troops did Hamas manage to kill in this latest skirmish? Some great resistance there buddy.

I would be greatly surprised if the average Gazan ever looks to Hamas again for any leadership.

You realize that Fatah was created by Arafat right? Its literally HIS party.

Were you a Arafat supporter when israel created Hamas to take Fatah out of power?

Or are you just one now because you just root for whoever israel tells you to at the time?

[edit on 19-1-2009 by breakingdradles]

Originally posted by dooper
Oh, I think Hamas can continue for a while. They are very busy teaching their children the glory of killing Jews.

This will not end until one side literally obliterates the other.

This is a two way street here dooper.
you can't have a fight unless someone is willing to fight back.
I think that maybe some of the Israeli children may be being taught that the arabs are always out to get them as well.

Yes and I'd like to, once again, congratulate the New England Patriots for beating the NY Giants in last year's Super Bowl, thus becoming the first NFL team in history to go 18-0.

Yeah, we won. We say so, therefore it is.

Originally posted by breakingdradles
You realize that Fatah was created by Arafat right? Its literally HIS party.

Were you a Arafat supporter when israel created Hamas to take Fatah out of power?

Or are you just one now because you just root for whoever israel tells you to at the time?

[edit on 19-1-2009 by breakingdradles]

I don't think you want to lecture me about this subject. I am well aware of the history. I just call it as it is. Fatah and the PA will benefit from this drubbing of Hamas. Though the Palestinians do have the track record of backing dead and beaten horses, so it wouldn't surprise me for Gazans to still morbidly back Hamas.

You keep believing this is some sort of victory for Hamas. Like I said, I would hate to see what would happen should they actually lose if this is winning.

Originally posted by munkey66
anyone who stands up against oppression is a hero, no matter how many innocent civilians die, Hamas will still be seen as the saviour in Gaza because there is no one else taking up the cause for them.

Gaza is not meant to survive,.....

Spoken like a true nihilistic supporter of Hamas. And people wonder why Israel doesn't want to negotiate with Hamas. Sorry, it really does matter how many innocents die. Why do innocents have to die fighting oppression?

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by munkey66
anyone who stands up against oppression is a hero, no matter how many innocent civilians die, Hamas will still be seen as the saviour in Gaza because there is no one else taking up the cause for them.

Gaza is not meant to survive,.....

Spoken like a true nihilistic supporter of Hamas. And people wonder why Israel doesn't want to negotiate with Hamas. Sorry, it really does matter how many innocents die. Why do innocents have to die fighting oppression?

Where or when have I said I support Hamas?
in fact I don't support either as I believe that Hamas was a creation to help destroy Gaza itself.

from memory I have stated that I am against all wars and believe that the pollititions who do want war should lead the fight from the front rather than give orders from the rear.

so before replying to just one section of a post you may find it helpful to read all the posts and see in what context the post was made.

I find what both Israel did and Hamas did was unforgivable, but I was just putting forward the position of the people of Gaza, who will stand up for the innocent?
If you knew people who had lost family members in the conflict, what would you do?
like 99% of any population you would scream out for someone to help, well who is there to help? The mighty US who managed to veto a bill to stop the killing? or will you turn to Hamas who are at least shooting back?

desperate people do desperate things, and sometimes they back the wrong horse when they are gambling the last of what they have left just on the chance they may win.

I think the "victory" is bassed on the ceasefire conditions. Not on winning a war as such. The "victory" he is referring to is in relation to Israels withdrawal from Gaza and the opening of the border crossings. The victory is that of freedom (not much of it, but more than they had).

"This is the outset of the victory and the resistance would complete it with making more achievements in the future", he told Mashaal in a telephone contact, adding that "The occupiers' withdrawal from Gaza Strip, removal of the Israeli blockades from the besieged area and reopening of the border crossings would pave the grounds for a complete victory."
news.xinhuanet.com...

dbates:

Not so sure that I agree there with the extent to which you have characterized Hamas as an extension of Iran. And my reason is pretty simple. If they were, I think Hamas would have been able to put up much more resistance than they have, and much more well supplied if nothing else than with arms from Iran through Syria.

Have they taken out a single Israeli tank or airplane? How many Israeli soldiers have they killed compared to what they have lost? The numbers are pretty one sided in Israel's favor.

And may I also ask what is the barebones supplied Hamas supposed to do against an overwhelming Israeli offensive other than blend with the crowd? There is no chance of them facing Israel. And even with formidable Iranian/Syrian proxy support they are going to have a tough time because Israel will just break out bigger bombs and increase sorties/ground offensives. And if really needed, they can break out the nukes. There is no chance for Hamas here.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Who are the greater cowards Israelis or Iranians?

It's all a delicate game of chess. Just because you move a pawn instead of your king does not mean it's cowardly. In warfare, it's smart.

Israel, US, Russia and many others all use pawns. It's about tactics. The idea is to win - long term. "Bravely" sending the full force of your military to their obvious defeat is not glorious, it's stupid. You will notice every country involved in hostilities tread very carefully, and after a lot of observing.

And sure it's totally wrong to have thousands of innocents suffer from moving your pawn, but that's how it goes on planet Earth.

[edit on 20/1/09 by NuclearPaul]

hamas lost militarily , though won politically ,

it was not proper victory for hamas , unlike as it was for hezobollah(military,polical victory) ,which destroyed 45 merkava MBT's and 2 helicopters and 125 israeli soldiers in 2 weeks , for losses of 270 guerillas itself