FBI releases Pentagon attack aftermath video

Stars supporting 9/11 truth posts = (57)
Stars supporting official story posts =(5)
Stars supporting Neutral post = (4)


Now this is the theme I see throghout EVERY thread involving CIT, and OS followers.

Pretty obvious what the majority of ATS believes.

I mean if we wanna turn this into a win/lose thing like the sheeple do. Well looks like the twoofers win!

Hows that for name slinging, and strawman arguments, and thread derailment?

Seriously, Nice post Craig.

I would like to point out the "flashbang" theory wasn't proposed by Craig ,but by a fairly new poster, but it was just something Craige thought was a possibility that the explosion was misdirection for the plane as well as the false flag that it was. See a good investigator follows all leads, and doesn't dismiss them off the bat. This is what makes Craig a good investigator. The footwork he's put in, and the differing avenues he's willing to look at until he comes to the one that is supported by the most witnesses. That is what we have here.

Have no mistake it was an explosion. Yes a Displosion used for misdirection nonetheless. Trees or no trees it still works. It probably works even better,with the trees obscuring the view of the explosion. Doesn't stop the shock wave, or the heat blast.

See while all the people that ducked and covered as a 757 came ROARING in overhead nearby 30-50 above the pentagon. which is even less if you on the raised overpass,well after they got thier bearing I'm sure(after 5 seconds of that, they laid on the ground another 10-15 seconds during the explosion and blast wave, and ground shake,then only stood up when they thought it was safe.Thats gives the flyover plane a nice 20-30 sec window to get out of site. Even when the people got up though they probably either turned and ran in the opposite direction OR ran North of the trees to get a look at the damage, thus concealing the south banking flyover plane even more.

People probably didnt start scanning the sky's to the far north or south for a good while after the explosion,had no reason too, they were already pre-programmed by the NYC attacks that planes WERE Crashing into buildings.

C'mon do you really think this guy who couldn't fly a cessena, could pull off this move? Really.

[edit on 20-1-2009 by Nola213]

posted by benoni
Hey cameron...
are you trained in derailing peoples threads??

You sure seem pretty skilled at spouting anything....as long as its nasty....and off topic....

Why??

Whats your vested interest...??

Yeah CameronFox, are you one of the 9-11 perps desperately trying to save your own neck? Who reignited the fires in the Pentagon when the first responder fire teams essentially put the fires out right away with foam and even rescued people from inside? Who kept reigniting the fires inside and on the cars along the wall repeatedly, so the fires burned for days?



The party crashers? By accident these two National Airport fire trucks were working nearby before the crash and rushed in bravely to put out the fires. Arriving at the crash site within 10 minutes, according to their report, they dutifully put out the Pentagon fires within 7 minutes. They saw NO SIGNS of an aircraft crashing there. No bodies. No luggage. No wings. No engines. No tail. No piece of fuselage sitting over in front of the helipad near them which looked like it had never been riveted to an aircraft frame. They used lots of foam didn't they?

Serendipitous Arrival of Reagan National ARFF Team

According to the article, shortly before Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, a Reagan National aircraft rescue fire fighting team was already on the road, attending a car accident on the upper level of Airport Terminal B. (Aircraft rescue fire fighters don't usually respond to car accidents, of course and there is no mention that the cars involved were on fire.) The ARFF team had their backs to the Pentagon. At 9:38 a.m. they heard a dull roar, turned around, and saw the smoke. The article does not mention how the Reagan National team knew the Pentagon fire was the result of a plane crash; however, they left the airport immediately for the Pentagon, which was three miles away. They arrived in two or three minutes and put the bulk of the fire out in seven minutes.

Do the math. The Reagan National team must have arrived at the Pentagon at approximately 9:40 or 9:41 a.m. If they extinguished the bulk of the fire in seven minutes, the "bulk of the fire" was extinguished at approximately 9:47 a.m. or 9:48 a.m.

What serendipity! An aircraft rescue fire fighting team, already on the road attending a car accident they normally wouldn't attend, hears a noise, sees smoke, concludes the fire was caused by an aircraft, and gets to the Pentagon in three minutes. Using foam, they put out the fire in seven minutes!

This was a fantastic news story. The Reagan National ARFF team were surely national heroes; surely we would expect their story to command immediate national media attention.

No Contemporaneous Coverage
But, curiously, the story of their on-the-spot heroism and competence got no media attention whatsoever. The local Washington, D.C. TV stations, the national TV networks, the Washington Post, the Washington Times, the New York Times, Associated Press, Reuters, Time, Newsweek, US News and World Report, the National Inquirer, etc., all missed the story.

The DoD photographers on the scene didn't record the Reagan National story on DoD websites; in fact, the photographs (and captions) on official DoD websites showed water being sprayed on the fire. DoD journalists who wrote stories about the Pentagon fire and rescue didn't record the Reagan National ARFF story either. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Hugh Shelton, Army Secretary White, the Arlington four County Fire Chief (who allegedly directed the fire fighting effort) -- none of them mentioned the amazing Reagan National story to news-hungry reporters during their press conferences.

With the nation grief-stricken and reeling over the loss of hundreds of New York firemen, the story of Reagan National ARFF team's heroism and effectiveness would have rallied our spirits. Their story should have gotten top coverage.

www.public-action.com...

ARFF Crews Respond to the Front Line at Pentagon November 1 2001

When a hijacked Boeing 757, skimming the street lights, smashed into the Pentagon on September 11, firefighters at nearby Reagan National Airport were the right responders in the right place with the right equipment.

Being among the first responding fire units, National's aircraft rescue firefighters (ARFF) crews were able to set up their apparatus directly in front of the gaping hole in the Pentagon. That was where their training in fighting aircraft fires and the capability of their foam units to extinguish jet fuel fires were put to the best use.

The ARFF foam units knocked down the bulk of the fire in the first seven minutes after their arrival, said Captain Michael Defina, who was the shift commander that day at National.

"We applied the foam tactfully and kept the fire from spreading drastically," he said. "This allowed for self-evacuation of the Pentagon at a critical time, saving many lives, and eventually the building." Two Oshkosh T3000s spread approximately 600 gallons (2.2 kiloliters) of 6% AFFF with an initial fire flow of more than 3,000 gallons (11.3 kiloliters) per minute.

www.public-action.com...

Oooops. Had to wash all that foam off those unburned cable spools so we could use water and keep them fires burning as ordered. Wonder why somebody would want to keep the fires burning?



How come these guys are not National HEROES, getting the Presidential Medal For Merit on nation-wide TV? They were heroes, doing their job. See the fire truck tracks across the lawn? These guys were among the first arrivals to the CRIME SCENE and put out the Pentagon fires themselves with foam. That's the 16' hole in the wall, which a 757 couldn't possibly make or fit through, to the right of the fire truck. But no aircraft debris of any kind to be seen anywhere on that lovely lawn right in front of the crash scene with the helipad just to the left out of the photo. Why wasn't the left wing engine or engine parts found over in front of the helipad also? It could not possibly have gone through that 16' fuselage hole in the reinforced Pentagon wall and the engine certainly did not make its own hole through the wall, did it?

reply to post by Nola213

Your premise that everyone nearby was too busy hiding to witness anything is as far fetched as ever. Even if we accept it as true, there should be many more witnesses to a flyover who weren't ducking a low flyer but were standing farther back. They have not come forth. There is no real doubt that an aircraft, as described in the official reports, struck the Pentagon. There is no real doubt that the impact and resulting fireball and fire were caused by large amounts of liquid hydrocarbons, such as jet fuel.
I would say that the lack of witnesses to such a flyover says that there is no real doubt that there was no such flyover. Further, most are convinced that the flight path was generally as described in the official report because there would be no reason to fake light pole damage if that were the case.
In my opinion, this entire conspiracy is the result of stubborness on the part of the perpetrators. Initial reports were sketchy enough to generate the conspiracy theory because that is what people like on this site. After time, it became apparent to all but those with a vested interest in this conspiracy that what was reported by the press and confirmed by the government is what happened. As time goes on, the entrenched few are too proud to admit their error and now go further and further afield seeking anything that will allow them to exit gracefully. The signatures about leaving everyone else in the dust point to their irrational pride. Emotions run very high on both sides of the issue. Those that accept the official view can't believe the stubborn denial and illogic of the conspiracy buffs. Those buffs are desperate to vindicate their positions and grasp at anything, often changing their story "on the fly", so to speak, and invoking patriotism while calling those who disagree, liars. I believe that they know the truth but can't accept it. The invocation of "Liar" is the tipoff when heavy denial is in effect.
I believe that it is time for the CIT team to fold its tent and look for other conspiracies. There is no way CIT can fabricate one out of the Pentagon strike that is even remotely believable to the majority of those who frequent this site.
Likely, Craig and CIT will deny this post and carry on, but who will listen to them? Only the deluded few that feel they, and they alone, have the inside track to secet information. I think some people need this feeling because they have nothing else in life. CIT's voice is getting weaker and weaker as they shout louder and louder.




[edit on 1/20/2009 by pteridine]

posted by pteridine
reply to post by Nola213

 

Bla bla bla . . . empty words of denial . . . . more bla bla bla.

It is YOUR 9-11 Pentagon OFFICIAL STORY which is coming up so full of holes it makes a fish net look like a solid surface. Your incessant denial changes not one fact of evidence. Your pretense that YOUR fairy tale of a official flight path sinking into quicksand is on solid ground, is silly and you people look like a pack of fools.

20+ eyewitnesses place the aircraft Over the Naval Annex rendering YOUR official Flight 77 flight path with the imaginary grinning Hani Hanjour piloting totally impossible. Good luck on your self-convincing tomfoolery.

I think it is time you desperate pseudoskeptics and government loyalists quit wasting your time on people you think are wasting their time.



[edit on 1/20/09 by SPreston]

Originally posted by benoni
Hey cameron...
are you trained in derailing peoples threads??

You sure seem pretty skilled at spouting anything....as long as its nasty....and off topic....

Why??

Whats your vested interest...??

I respond to questions asked within a thread. Then I call out liars. (although I don't call them that)

I am not trained in derailing threads. I am educated in the events leading up to, during, and post 911. I do not have all the answers sir, but I can smell B.S. from a mile away.

Thank you for your post.


CF

Originally posted by SPreston

Yeah CameronFox, are you one of the 9-11 perps desperately trying to save your own neck?

Yes Spreston...I am a member of the elite NWO. I was running around with a tiki torch and a can of Aqua Net all night on September 11th.

As of 12:30 EST, I am unemployed. No more neocons in the White House, so I am S.O.L.

I haven't check Preston.... have you responded to the April Gallop thread that you abandoned?

reply to post by SPreston


Preston, you have misquoted me. I definitely did not say "bla bla bla." Perhaps in your current state of turmoil and confusion, you confused me with someone from CIT. It is also possible that what I wrote struck a nerve and you are in a defensive mode. Are you planning to "leave everyone in the dust" as you retreat?

Sorry cameron, but if you reckon you can smell BS a mile away, I suggest you go and see a doctor...


...because if you take a good, hard look at the one photo preston posted above,... you know, the one with the pristine,untouched, virginal lawn frontage right in front of the Pentagon....the one that shows no evidence whatsoever of any plane having crashed there that day....

Based on your comments thus far, I would suggest, sir, that you are not as astute at smelling the BS as you may believe....

To me, when i look at that photo above, the BS whiff is sooo strong i keep checking the soles of my shoes....thinking i must have stood in some....

Maybe the ARFF accidentally messed up someones plans by putting the fire out too soon? They were not part of the plan and were just in the wrong place at the right time? Any we will never know for sure what really happen on 9/11. It has been seen to that anything that could prove anything other than the offical story has been made to disappear forever. It is a waste of time to try anymore. The real true events of 9/11 are lost forever. And all anyone that is trying to hide anything has to do is to add fuel to the fire of conspiracy. To cover up the true story you hide in a pile of fake stories. And soon no one can tell which is which. What happened on 9/11 matters a lot but it is a waste of time try anymore. That is all I have to say about it.

Q:How do you hide a tree?
A:In a forest

[edit on 1/21/2009 by fixer1967]

reply to post by benoni

Benoni,
You said: "...because if you take a good, hard look at the one photo preston posted above,... you know, the one with the pristine,untouched, virginal lawn frontage right in front of the Pentagon....the one that shows no evidence whatsoever of any plane having crashed there that day.... "

The appearance just might have something to do with the camera angle and position or a photoshop edit by a desperate conspiracy buff. What do you think is the reason?

Hey Craig, I don't suppose you ever asked your buddy cameron there to go on down to the Pentagon, dig up those two cops in the Pentacon, and tell them to their faces they are bold-faced liars, eh? They were sooo nice and cooperative with you. Think they'll be sooo nice and cooperative with cameron if he did that? I have a feeling he'd get his front teeth knocked out, which is exactly what he needs.

After they explained it so well? After you double questioned them to make sure they knew exactly what they saw and where? I think that may prove to be an urgently needed lesson in STFU for someone who clearly has got to be on government shill payroll, or for some reason is totally obsessed with bringing you down. Well don't you get down brother! There are so many of us watching your every word! You go boi!

And cameron, Craig has done more for those 911 victims in one single strand of his DNA with all his research than 100 of you will ever do trying to cut him down. Shame on you. Be a good little kiddie and run along now. Let the truth alone, cause clearly you can't handle it. And you can't handle Craig. He is tearing you apart so bad at the seams you are looking like a fool. Are you a masochist? Ditto SPreston as well, another winner, presenting great illustrations, analysis, and blowing you the )(&) away. Yer beaten and badly bruised. You lose.

Originally posted by Seymour Butz

3- yes, exactly. Everyone in here has no problems believing in CTz. that's why they are here in the first place, not to discuss these issues, but rather to stroke each other's egos and make each other feel like they have special knowledge that all the sheeple don't.

I am sorry - but I am thoroughly disgusted and insulted by such an accusation and I formally complain to the moderators - such insulting sweeping statements are not acceptable.

I am here to listen to and discuss alternative views, interpretations and sometimes find real evidence and facts which are kept out of main stream media.

As for "9/11" - it is very clear that the "official story" is full of big holes and lies.

What the truth is I do not know, but there are quite a few things which are engineering and scientifically incredulous in the official story line. There are many intelligent, respected, high qualified people from airline pilots, fire-fighters, fire investigators, accident investigators etc who keep coming forward with data and reports which show that the official story cannot be wholly correct - else the laws of science and engineering were changed on that day....

I would like to know the truth - and this is one place where people will work hard to find new data as it is released, or point to credible people and sources of data.

Ok - some people may get carried away with theories - but hey I have a brain - I look at the information, i look at where data has come from and where I can verify it outside of ATS - and I then have information from which I can make up my own mind.

No-one should be shot down for bringing out more information, or new data sources, or new views or opinions - it is ok to totally disagree with something and say so – but it is unacceptable to go around insulting people for having different views – especially here.....

reply to post by TrueAmerican


You hit the nail on the head with this post TrueAmerican!

We have challenged our detractors time and time again to confront the witnesses themselves if they don't believe them.

Tell them that they all simultaneously independently hallucinated the same thing.

Either that or go find enough witnesses who refute them.

We have always said the evidence we present is falsifiable.

All they need to do is provide 14 first-hand south side accounts from witnesses with equal to or better vantage points than the 13 north side witness.

To accept anything less with be unscientific and expose their confirmation bias and pure unadulterated faith in what they are told by the government.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Excellent!
So when will you, SPreston, and Craig concentrate more on gettint this evidence forward rather then debating on internet forums?
THE TIME FOR DEBATE IS OVER!

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

Sorry but dont MOST IF NOT ALL of your own witnesses claim the Flight 77 HIT THE PENTAGON!?

Originally posted by 654321
reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

 

Sorry but dont MOST IF NOT ALL of your own witnesses claim the Flight 77 HIT THE PENTAGON!?

While that is a concern, don't miss the forest by staring at a tree. There are still a lot of unknowns. What is so great about Craig and SPreston is they are politely fending off the detractors, and are digging out the facts. Well I won't be so polite about it. I am telling it like it is.

At this point still to me is the fact of the northside flyover. It had to be. There is just no other way around it. And that one fact alone SHOWS the government lied and falsified FDR data. And if they lied about that, that's it for me. I don't trust another damn word they say. I trust Craig and SPreston. And btw, please don't even include me in that, as I am just a mere commentator, and NOT the researchers that they are.

But your words are not unheeded as to it's time. Maybe with the new administration on board showing that they intend to be "the most open, transparent government in US history" (hey says so on the new whitehouse.gov website), the time for filing some serious FOIA requests is now. And by God let's start with those unreleased videos at the Pentagon, by all means. Show the fricken plane already.

[edit on Thu Jan 22nd 2009 by TrueAmerican]