What is magic? (or Majick)?

I got into an interesting thread about 'mental magic' today. I call it psychology. The poster, kagutuchi refered to elemental, raw or physical types of magic, but was worried about scripts of 'mental magic.'

My personal viewpoint is that there is the 'irrational,' and the 'rational.' Rational is clearly explained by science, or maths or logic, or even reason. Irrational is like so many situations in our lives where it 'just happened.' Like rock 'n' roll and bands busting up, or for that matter any relationship busting up or somehow forming.

My perspective is that many things in life that we do, we just do and if it can be explained rationally, all is good, but if it cannot (yet) be explained rationally, it is either an article of faith, emotion, impulse, reaction or magic.

My question is, are faith, emotion, impulse, reaction (or deindividuation, possibly central), or magic the same?

We attack the unknown with logic or intuition. Are they seperate? And is our belief in the rational in itself not clinging to something mad. Look at our belief in the markets over the last year.

Is magic logic yet to be, or is it something completely different?

[edit on 15/1/2009 by redled]

"magic" is the manipulation of energy to perform a desired outcome.
Blessing, enchanting, levitation, telekinesis, psychic healing, curses; if you believe in that kind of stuff.

Originally posted by redled
We attack the unknown with logic or intuition. Are they seperate? And is our belief in the rational in itself not clinging to something mad. Look at our belief in the markets over the last year.

I say logic comes from the part of you that learns new information and regurgitates it on command. Intuition comes from that part of you that long ago knew all the answers and remembers them when the time comes, the only thing you have to do is accept the memory with faith. So yes, there is a little bit of a difference there. I also say rationale is limited to perspective, but so is insanity.

Magic/Majick is not all that dissimilar from you more popular religions. It just happens to be considered a pagan belief rather than a faith in God belief.

It is an acceptance and openess to that which is all around you. There are dark and light believers, just as there are good and bad religious followers. There is the belief in that which is greater than ones own self, but there is no central deity figure. There is strength and harmony in numbers, much like the religions gather together to worship. There is a greater level of acceptance of non-believers in the pagan faiths than there will ever be in the formal religions.

Harnessing and expressing magic in a good way is to essentially reach out through the elements (earth, fire, wind, water) combined with tomes, candles, charms, totems, chants and icons used to focus the mind and body in a certain manner as to achieve a positive outcome. In the light, there is primarily the desire to good unto others, saving self for last. The 7 deadly sins are very respected in the light Wicca community and the curse of 3-fold can be devistating.

In the dark, warlocks use the same as above, but seek only personal gain and outward harm to any that oppose them. They are not very accepting of the light path of Wicca, nor do they care much for the scorn or ignorance of those that do not agree with them.

Magic is very much alive today. Its not what you see on TV, theatres, or video games, but it is a practiced and practical lifestyle with some very devoted followings.

Originally posted by Kiwiemperor
"magic" is the manipulation of energy to perform a desired outcome.
Blessing, enchanting, levitation, telekinesis, psychic healing, curses; if you believe in that kind of stuff.

Dont confuse tv/theatre magic and the art of illusion with the core belief in magic itself. Wicca is more of a faith than a fireball.

I define it as "energy work"
Plain and simple.

The simplest way to explain what "magick" is i think is this.

It is concentrating, and directing your thoughts to accomplish a desired goal, your thought ( concentration ) can be backed up by performing a ritual.

The ritual consists of prayers, movements, and certain objects to strenghten and enforce your mind, and helps bring your mind into a meditative state.

So I forgot 'energy,' but my basic question is, although I agree with all of the above, are we approaching the unknown from two different angles, the rational, and what is 'rationally unknown?' I believe it to be focus and nature. I suppose my basis is nature magic, but how do we get it to meet the rational 'arts?' I believe the rational and the irrational are the same, but two sides of the coin in a different game.

My question was about how the two sides meet, not divorce. Maybe I did not make that clear. Thankyou for your answers but I am still looking for how they interelate.....

reply to post by redled


Hey there redled,

As others have mentioned magick is the subtle manipulation of natural energy (in a nutshell).

Because nature can display itself as both a passive entity and a chaotic force (the main principles of alchemy), it is usually impossible to capture any proof of it's reality under laboratory conditions ... it is what it is ... pure and simple !

However, having said that I consider myself to be a bit of a hybrid insomuch that I like to understand how and why results are produced via magick or the paranormal. Unfortunately commercialized New-Ager's are greatly responsible for natural magick being written off as little more than a 'hippy philosophy' by many ... but I beg to differ.

I personally believe that it is vital to combine the two if we are to grasp the underlying truth behind magick. Everything in nature is energy ... including us, therefore the potential for us to manipulate various forms of natural energy should not be dismissed or laughed off as delusional party tricks ... but it is very important to remain realistic and balanced throughout.

The main element of magick (esoteric) is psychology (science) ... in short the human mind-set. It is important to understand the nature (pardon the pun) of the human mind ... once you do then you are halfway there. Along with this recognition of logic we have to be equally balanced from the aspect of faith ... we have to understand that not everything fits into a neat little box ... in many cases it is impossible ... that doesn't mean it is any less valid. Think how many fanciful ideas have become realities accepted by the scientific community over the years (#1 space travel ... #2 telephones & tv's ... #3 the intenet ... # cloning ... the list is endless). So why not magick or communicating with the dead ?

The key thing to remember where natural magick is concerned is that it can be just as delusional to dismiss the logical possibility of it's reality as it is to accept everything blindly. And know that intuition is just as vital as hard evidence.

Having worked over the years to develop this balance (intuition + logic = magick), I often find nowadays that I see results before I have performed the ritual ... just by holding the thought ... because of this I have to be very careful what I wish for ! lol

>>> physics ... metaphysics ... magick ... science ... intuition ... logic should all be almalgamated for the best results in my opinion.

Woody

reply to post by redled


I get more from your question now, comparing the OT with this recent post. It seems to me that you are trying to find a link between the two. Logic and reason versus impulse and emotion. As if to make the assumption that the two sides of the coin are joined by more than the space in which they flip.

Logic and reason are dictated by what you learn. Fact based. Can be proven through tangible experimentation to a known end result.

Emotion and Impulse deal with psychology. Belief without tangible proof. Passion without barriers. Action without acknowledgment of consequence. Compassion without reason.

In many cases, I would not take the leap that the two could ever be linked. If you apply logic and reason to a problem, you will get a dictated outcome within a confined realm of possibilities. If you go on "instinct" your outcome has a high probability of randomness.

The counterpoint that I would ask is how often do you think that you apply logic and reason to an instance that is based in emotion? Does your "learned" side influence your "intuitive" side, or vice versa? And how often?

I know a lot of engineers that would agree that intuition and faith walk hand in hand with science and mathematics. To say aloud that you "just know it will work" is a result of faith and science.

I think your question is one of personal insight and is one that only the individual can answer. I know that I use both on a regular basis. Sometimes I just know something is right without the ability to translate the "how and why" into tangible evidence. Its part faith, part experience, part science. All walking three abreast, holding hands, whistling in the sunshine.

[edit on 17-1-2009 by wheresthetruth]