It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Physicians holding patients hostage to medication?

page: 2
7
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 12:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Badge01
 


What a nice reply.


I have thought of a different perspective for you.

So many people I know, when something is wrong, go to the doctor and want a rx. They want it fixed and now. I wonder how much of it is conditioning, because people, like everything else, don't want to take the hard way to health.
My husband and his family are in these groups of people. If it can't be prescribed, it can't be any good.
I will try every homepathic attempt before going on a medication.


I am not a medical professional but I am a professional patient. I also work for a health department.I have been sick for a very long time with no known cause or cure. I suffere from chronic pain, chronic fatigue. The latest thing is losing my hair. Like I said the hypertention is new and a lovely gift from my parents.

So it bothers me when people complain of somethign like hypertention and having to go to the doc every few months. There is barely a week that goes by where I don't have to go to the doctors. Tests, specialists, the whole nine yards. I have to do a slew of tests today.

So while I try to be empathetic, someone with a mild ailment should consider what it is like to be truley sick, where you life is filled with doctors, prescriptions, trips to the ERs. And a stack of bills you can't pay.And I have stood in line while people panic because the pharmacy doesn't have their life saving medication or the insurance doesn't want to approve it and the person doesn't have 800 dollars to shell out.

You know what the number one drug is that people overdose on in the US?

Tylenol

AS for stockpiling, oh sure. If you need to go for it.
You never know. But if the doc needs to see you and SHTF hasn't occurred, go see a professional while there is one. *grins*

Funny you mention this, my husband and I were discussing that when SHTF, what are we going to get from teh drug store when we raid it.


[edit on 6-1-2009 by nixie_nox]



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 02:49 PM
link   
Interesting rant and great thread.

I just want to add one more source of flexibility that does exist in the system but that I haven't seen mentioned: the pharmacist.

OK, I'm biased, since I'm making a midlife career change into pharmacy. But I also have had good experiences as a patient.

For several years I've been on antidepressants, which my doctor generally prescribes in one-month supplies with 2 refills on them. Then I have to touch base with him either with a phone session or an in-person session to get a new prescription (if I don't go in to see him he phones the prescription).

Several times it's happened that I've lost track of when exactly I'll run out of pills, the result being that I can't get an appointment until after my supply runs out. The pharmacists have always been willing to "advance" me a few days (in one instance a week's worth) of medication so that I don't have to go without.

Of course that won't be much help when the shtf and I can't get a doctor appointment for the next millenium or so, but I guess I'll deal with it then.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 11:05 PM
link   
reply to post by Badge01
 


Hello Badge 01, it is good to know there is a fellow ICP here. I agree for the most part. However, having worked contract for several insurance companies, I would say most of this is due to state and governmental regulations placed on insurance companies, possibly as a result of a few unethical physicians.

I actually request a dose for a greater frequency (or larger dose and cut it in half) and take it less often with the full knowledge of my physician. This is a great suggestion. What is needed is an informed public and a public who asks questions without being intimidated because the person is "a Doctor". Everyone has the right to be fully informed.

As for the doorknob etc. issue in physician offices, I see this as no greater a problem there than in any public place. Wash you hands frequently! From my view point, the greater problem is respiratory infections in the common waiting room. Of course, this is a problem everywhere, but may be concentrated in the doctors office.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 11:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Badge01

I think it's bordering on negligence, malpractice and subverting their Hippocratic Oath ("First, do no Harm").

[edit on 1/5/2009 by Badge01]


Massive Understatement IMO.

They arent "boardering" on it as i see it, they are neck deep in it.

Its because they love $$$ so much (among other reasons).


Most doctors are not just looking for the money, nor do they intend harm. I have been around a long time. The problem from where I stand, is that they have not thought beyond what they were taught in medical school. Medical school does not teach anything but traditional medicine. To be honest, most do not have the time to think beyond what they learned in school.

There is another problem. This is drug companies who give dinners for offices ( although they now have to give some education on the drug they are promoting), then give them sample drugs to give out to their patients. They develop a good relationship with the physician and the physician may not look at other drugs or sources of information. So you get what their favorite drug rep supplies them with.

Some of the problem may be laziness or loss of enthusiasm for the profession...maybe, just caught up in the hype.

Our job is to stay informed. Ask questions? Take responsibility for your own health.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by liveandlearn]



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 05:38 AM
link   
reply to post by liveandlearn
 


Thanks for the kind reply. On the risk of greater contagion at hospitals and Dr's offices you are probably correct it's no greater than any place with a large trafficed area, and in Hospitals it depends on circumstances, the ward you're on, your immunocompetency and staff handwashing.

So that part of my list of risks is probably exaggerated. I guess my point is I see no real reason for a normally, informed person to go to the Cr's as frequently as they'd like you to for minor things, and getting minor prescription refills is one of them. But they make money out of quick office visits and here they'll spend 5 min with me, bill my insurance for $150 bucks, and $15 from me. If they can do 30 of these a day (every 15 min) then that's $4,950 easy money.


Heck you or I could run a business like that prescribing Naproxyn, Hydrochlorothiazide and Lisinopril with very little medical training. (kidding). But try and get good diet advice and they're clueless - why? - they don't get it in Med School and have no practical experience. They just schedule bariatric surgeries, exhort patients to lose some weight and if they're not overweight themselves have no idea how hard dieting is.

Anyway, interesting we've had the same thoughts on beating the high cost of prescriptions.



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 06:04 AM
link   
reply to post by Badge01
 




In fact the Physician could help out with this. They could put you on a double dose of a relatively benign medication (say a water pill) and write the prescription for three doses per day when really that would be fine, but you could also get by on one. This is not really cheating anyone, and with many medications is within standard practice. This would cut visits and pharmacy costs by 1/3 to poorer patients.


While this is an excellent idea as far as cutting down office visits and expenses I recently had a bad experience due to this practice. I help oversee my 92 year old grandmother's medications and got completely confused because the doses she was taking did not match the directions on the bottle. She is in fantastic shape with a sharp mind, so I didn't know what to think when she told me her doctor had told her to take a half of this pill and to take another only once a day instead of the prescribed two a day. I scheduled a visit with her nurse practitioner to figure out what the heck was going on -- she was right, by the way.

The bottom line for me is I wish the proper directions for dosing were on the bottle for seniors and those who help them. I believe many seniors are taking the wrong dosages due to these money saving tactics. It seems like a dangerous practice just to save a few bucks.



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 05:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Seeker Mom
 
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

First, I have to thank EVERYONE for making this a great thread, with lots of good give and take. It's one where even radically opposing ideas have added greatly.

To Seeker Mom, you are quite correct, it's easy to get confused and/or take incorrect amounts. Thus, this evidently fairly common practice has to be carefully customized per the individual patient and "cost" has to be the last item on the list before being enabled by the MD.

Excellent point.

One thought upon which to elucidate, the idea of stockpiling. I originally got this idea from the Survivor types and Extreme Adventure Trekkers where they'd get a special pack by a supervising physician o use as an emergence life-saving measure. In it were medications of a fairly dangerous nature, including stimulants, epinephrine, antibiotics, sedatives and even (I think) a morphine syringe as they used in WWII for combat wounds.

Not that I'm advocating this kind of thing for casual use, but evidently there are ways to get such equipment legally. One would assume that the Adventurist would have some First Aid training and specific training in use of this 'Kit'.

But consider...people get licensed to handle dangerous equipment.

o Farmers can legally by high explosives to remove tree stumps;
o Grandmothers get Concealed Weapons Carry permits and carry handguns;
o Military Vets are injected with unknown vaccines.

Thus the government's claims of 'protecting society' do not ring clear here.

Why should certain legal medicines be so restricted and controlled? As one Poster said, people wanting to harm themselves can take OTC medications.

I have several friends back in the day who routinely took old Antibiotic prescriptions for ear aches and got rid of it (maybe it cleared up on its own, who knows?
)

How do we handle risk? We get training and we're judged competent. I think the same could be said of personal medical treatment.

Make it like First Aid training. You get special permission if you take Red Cross training, for instance.

IOW, what I'm saying is that Society is still giving Physicians the mantle of the Shaman/Priest in some ways and their knowledge is restricted and forbidden, as though the Layperson can't know enough even if they're a college professor, or a clinical scientist.

The truth is, the real experts in several sub-fields are Physical trainers, Nurses, some Nutrition experts (there are a lot of good ones), and though I'm pretty 'establishment', even Holistic Medicine practitioners have some good ideas (even if it's 'take less pharmaceuticals').

In addition we know 'Big Pharm' is out for Profits and Not our welfare. That's a fact.


We now license certain alternative medicines, and Deep massage and Shiatsu, Acupuncture, and 'Healing Hands' get approved by Insurance agencies (IIRC).

In my case, I tried for 6 years to get approval to go to a special Deep massage therapist (who had to have a physician referral) and my MD would NOT allow it. I was sent to a PT who hurt me doing a chest compression (HVLA), and to a very strange Chiropractor who would NOT make me a pair of orthotics (he kept dragging on our sessions to the point where I just gave up getting anything more than an adjustment).

But now, that special therapist has died and her business was closed, so I'll never get to be treated there. (One or two of my friends in academia raved about her ability, and one had an 8-year shoulder problem which would not be resolved healed in 5-10 sessions with her).

So my point remains that the MD and the Patient must work together as a Team - we're consumers and we're NOT some annoyance who can be 'fired' by their Doctor's office for not coming in for treatment. (That practice should be actionable in the legal system).


Anyway good posts, thanks everyone.


Disclaimer: I'm posting as a Member and I'm not advocating doing anything illegal, immoral or fattening.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 1/7/2009 by Badge01]



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 07:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Amniodarone
 


They actually spiked my blood pressure, gave me panic attacks, could not drive, read and I went into depression all within three weeks.

Still once again my doctor told me I was depressed and needed antidepressant pills.

Can you believe that!!!! I fire her!!!!!!



Marg, that can be scary when they want to put you on antidepressants when it is a side effect of other drugs.

Related, one of my friends went into a post-partum depression after the birth of her baby. She didn't really know anything about anti-depressants at the time, so she started taking Prozac (They also told her not to worry about the breastfeeding, she was taking the drugs, not the baby - but that's a story for another thread).

Now, she wasn't that bad off at the start. Within days she started getting worse. Paranoid thoughts, virtual inability to function, all that. So she went back to the doctor. He upped the dosage without examination. My friend went back home, same thing. This time she started to have thoughts of hurting her child. At this point, she was so horrified that she was having these thoughts, she went back to the doc. Yep, you guessed it, he raised the dosage again.

So this went on for weeks. At her worst, my friend stopped eating, was suicidal, and couldn't stop herself from thinking thoughts of hurting her baby and the people around her. Her doctor was talking about committing her for a while :-( Fortunately, we got her to another doctor who immediately began tapering her off the drugs (quickly, I might add. She was most alarmed at the extent of the side effects). Once the drugs were gone, she went back to normal! Still was suffering from the post-partum, but she ended up treating it naturally and eventually moved past it.

Stories like this make me absolutely terrified of what could happen if I ever ran into a bad stop like my friend did :-( Even more terrifying is her doctor, who had apparently through the entire thing been an absolute gem of a doctor, refused to consider the possibility that her worsening could be a side effect of the drugs :-( What happens to people who don't have a support system around them?



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 09:50 AM
link   
reply to post by Amniodarone
 


Just wanted to say as a nurse, you hit the nail on the head! It is very hard for most people to understand, that medicine is not an exact science. Most is trial and error.

I myself take an ACEinhibitor lisinopril and it has worked beautifully for me.
My Dr. likes to see me every 6 months. Personally, I have no problem with that, and if I were ever in a tight spot I would never be without my meds., even if I couldn't to see her. We have a very good patient-Dr. relationship. I also have this kind of relationship with my pharmacist. I feel this is key in taking responsibility for your health.

Medication is wonderful at times, but preventive care is just as important.

Thanks for letting me ramble, and thank you for all your compassion and selflessness!

Paxnatus



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 02:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by Amniodarone
 


...... medicine is not an exact science. Most is trial and error.


But the "trial and error" part should be kept in the lab and out of the office. Diagnosing a condition may be some what of a trial and error process but once the condition is diagnosed, treatment should be clear cut.


I feel this is key in taking responsibility for your health.

Medication is wonderful at times, but preventive care is just as important.


I think preventative care is more important. I don't really feel that having a great relationship with your MD is key in taking responsibility for your health. Responsibility starts and ends with you! The best prevention is sound nutrition and, as badge has already pointed out, MD's weren't taught nutrition in school.

Great thread Badge! Now I gotta one up ya!


-Dev





[edit on 8-1-2009 by DevolutionEvolvd]



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 10:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

But the "trial and error" part should be kept in the lab and out of the office. Diagnosing a condition may be some what of a trial and error process but once the condition is diagnosed, treatment should be clear cut.


But individuals are different, so the treatment will be different.

I actually think that the attitude of treating the diagnosis rather than the individual is one of the worst things about the way medicine is practiced in the U.S. today.

Once the diagnosis is clear, a goal of treatment needs to be worked out, then a range of treatments to get to that goal may become clear, then a decision might be made about which will work best for the particular patient.

In some conditions, the range of treatments will be very small and the criteria for deciding among them will be quite simple and easy to monitor. But for some there will be a constant balance between dozens of factors, and the patient-doctor relationship will be of utmost importance in managing them.

________________________________________________

Preventive care is of course preferable to sick care. But there's no reason that M.D.'s shouldn't be encouraged to participate in preventive care too. It's partially a myth that doctors are not taught about nutrition – people tend to assume that this means they have no training in how our body gets and uses nutrients, which is just not true. Any good college biology course will give you a lot of information on this; a physiology class will give you more; biochemistry yet more. I imagine that the medical school counterparts to these classes do the same in further detail. They may not know a lot about what foods contain what compounds, but they can use Google as well as most of us can.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:16 AM
link   
Thank you americandingbat, that was exactly my point (I swear I explain things much better to my patients). Every patient's treatment needs to be individualized. Hypertension in one person isn't the same as hypertension in another. A "miracle" drug for one person might be deadly for another.

If the physician doesn't take as much time as he/she needs to with each patient; my feeling is that they are doing a disservice to their patients and themselves. I know that in the U.S. physicians and other healthcare providers are in great demand. There is a shortage of doctors and nurses that is only projected to become greater as the population ages (Baby Boomers are growing old). However, I restrict the number of patients I see each day, because I feel that quality should overrule quantity. Unfortunately, not all doctors feel this way. They are people, just like everyone else. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. In the end, it is the responsibility of the patient to make sure that they are treated well. They should ask questions and pick the physician that will listen to them. I wish I could say that ALL doctors care for their patients first, and the themselves second...but that just isn't always the case. My suggstion is to find a doctor that will listen to you, and one that you will trust and listen to.



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1   >>

log in

join