Gays Ya or Na

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
Stone...

Please save it for bible class. The bible has no place in reality, politics, or truth. I know nothing, you know nothing, let's just accept that and try to see things for what they are instead of following what other people say or write in a book.

As for the issue at hand, it's been over killed in these forums. But an observation is once you start assigning right and wrong to issues such as this is when you start making mistakes. It is as it is, just accept that and move on.

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I THOUGHT THE DESCUSSION AT HAND WAS WHAT THE BIBLE SAID NOT WHAT HE SAID SHE SAID. DOES THE BIBLE OFFEND YOU? I JUST QUOTED THE WORDS, YOU JUST DONT LIKE THE TRUTH. DONT WANNA LIVE THE GOOD LIFE? FINE BY ME BUT LIFE W/ CHRIST IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS. LIKE IT OR NOT. DONT SEEM LIKE IT KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, WHEN THE DEMONS COME AT NIGHT THERES ONLY ONE NAME THAT HELPS, JESUS

StandingStone, I'm just saying people will be turned off by the all capslock, not want to read more of what you have to say. You make a good point about the gay-bashing and Christian-bashing, which is something I haven't really thought about before. Why is there this double standard? When people say "gays are stupid" they get swamped with people saying how evil they are. But then others say "Christians suck" and it seemingly slips through the politically correct cracks.

I don't think there is room for any Christian or gay bashing. People can think what they want one way or another, but I don't think there is room for such harsh bashing one way or another.

Jesus did preach tolerance, after all. I'm sure Jesus didn't condone prostitution, murder or homosexuality; he embraced the people who chose to live their lives in such ways as his brothers and sisters even though he did not agree with their actions.

And StandingStone also made a good point. Show me a Bible verse where it says "thou shalt kill someone who works on the Sabbath" I'm pretty sure it's not in there anywhere. This is the case that happens many times where people make stuff up that they think "should" be in the Bible because of everything else that is written, but they have nothing or no reason to back it up. Again, show me the verse, and I'll say fine. But until you can do that (whoever wrote about killing sabbath-workers), please don't make stuff up to fit your bashing of my religion. Thank you.

Originally posted by Faisca
Hey StandingStone, sorry to say this but people like you who post things like that actually make other Christians look bad. You need to calm down with the capslock so people can actually read what you have to say; capslock looks like you are "shouting" and/or just ranting.

Also, you come off in a very anti-gay/gay bashing manner. This should not be the language in a forum such as this; especially if you're trying to convey one side in an argument. Attacking your opposition is a good way to get people to ignore you.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Faisca]

JUST BECAUSE I WALK THE LINE I MAKE OTHER CHRISTIANS LOOK BAD, YOU LIKE SITTING ON THE FENCE? CHRIST SAID BE HOT OR COLD BUT IF YOU ARE LUKE WARM HE'LL SPIT YOU OUT. HE HAS MORE RESPECT FOR THE EVIL THAN HE DOES FOR PEOPLE WHO TALK THINGS IN HIS NAME JUST FOR CONVIENCE AND TO FEEL GOOD. ARE YOU IN THIS FORUM TO SOCIALIZE OR TO BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION. I PUT EXACTLY WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU GET OFFENDED. SHOWS ME WHAT KIND OF CHRISTIAN YOU ARE. TAKING THINGS TOO LIGHTLY CAN BE BAD ALSO.

Originally posted by Standing Stone

JUST BECAUSE I WALK THE LINE I MAKE OTHER CHRISTIANS LOOK BAD, YOU LIKE SITTING ON THE FENCE? CHRIST SAID BE HOT OR COLD BUT IF YOU ARE LUKE WARM HE'LL SPIT YOU OUT. HE HAS MORE RESPECT FOR THE EVIL THAN HE DOES FOR PEOPLE WHO TALK THINGS IN HIS NAME JUST FOR CONVIENCE AND TO FEEL GOOD. ARE YOU IN THIS FORUM TO SOCIALIZE OR TO BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION. I PUT EXACTLY WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU GET OFFENDED. SHOWS ME WHAT KIND OF CHRISTIAN YOU ARE. TAKING THINGS TOO LIGHTLY CAN BE BAD ALSO.

Woah, woah, StandingStone. I'm pretty much on your side. I just don't agree with the way in which you propose your arguments.

I'm not on the fence when it comes to gays. Being gay is wrong in my eyes, it's disgusting. But that does not mean I must hate gay people. Like I said earlier, Jesus taught tolerance. He loved everyone equally, even sinners, he just did not agree with the way in which they lived and he tried to bring them to live the right way. Jesus did not preach hate, he preached love.

I am in no way a bad Christian. I didn't mean you make Christians look bad because of your beliefs, because to be Christian is to inheritely believe that being gay is wrong. I just said that because you are presenting your arguments in a very stand-offish manner that will turn people off from what you have to say. I mean no offense to you, like I said I'm on your side.

By the way, I know you presented quotes from the Bible. You actually presented one that I had quoted before. I never got offended by what you presented from the Bible. Why would I? The Bible is as much my book as it is yours.

So accordingto the original post marriage is scientifically for reproduction?... last time i checked it was just as easy to reproduce whilst unmarried... marriage is devoting yourself to someone for life... thats it, thats the bottom line... so i see no reason (scientifically, religiously, morally, logically or any other words ending in 'ly') why gays shouldnt be allowed to be married... if they get married does it block you from going to heaven? does it make your taxes higher? will it cause the world to implode? NO! NO! and NO! so get the # over it... i dont see why this is such a huge debate topic... personally i dont see the point in marriage full-stop... i think we are naturally polygomous (well i am) and marriage is just fighting nature... but if we stragiht ppl can do it, so can the gays!

You Mr. Stone are a fanatic. What is dangerous here is people like you taking a book way to seriously and imposing your opinions as truth on other people. There is no proof that your god or any other god exists. Why not spend your time on trying to find out what is really out there?? Maybe you have thoughts about hurting people or can't handle your life without religion in it. I can respect that but what you have to understand is that there are people out there who can control themselves, who can look at their life and be happy with it, who don't have impulses to do harmful things. Therefore what could religion do for them? Nothing, religion is needed for people who need it, it is a crutch, or a guide, for people who can't deal or aren't happy with life. You may need a set of guidelines and a insta answer to life the universe and everything, but with much respect I would ask you to please consider that you're point of view is no more relevant than any one else's.

Originally posted by Standing Stone

Originally posted by Faisca
Hey StandingStone, sorry to say this but people like you who post things like that actually make other Christians look bad. You need to calm down with the capslock so people can actually read what you have to say; capslock looks like you are "shouting" and/or just ranting.


[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Faisca]

JUST BECAUSE I WALK THE LINE I MAKE OTHER CHRISTIANS LOOK BAD, YOU LIKE SITTING ON THE FENCE? CHRIST SAID BE HOT OR COLD BUT IF YOU ARE LUKE WARM HE'LL SPIT YOU OUT. HE HAS MORE RESPECT FOR THE EVIL THAN HE DOES FOR PEOPLE WHO TALK THINGS IN HIS NAME JUST FOR CONVIENCE AND TO FEEL GOOD. ARE YOU IN THIS FORUM TO SOCIALIZE OR TO BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION. I PUT EXACTLY WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU GET OFFENDED. SHOWS ME WHAT KIND OF CHRISTIAN YOU ARE. TAKING THINGS TOO LIGHTLY CAN BE BAD ALSO.

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THAT LAST FEW LINES MIGHT HAVE WENT TOO FAR, SORRY. GET HYPED UP YA KNOW.

STANDING STONE

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
Nothing, religion is needed for people who need it, it is a crutch, or a guide, for people who can't deal or aren't happy with life.

I have to disagree with you. I'm very happy with my life, and I can deal with it just fine. Religion is a kind of guide, yes. But so is science to some degree. Science is a search for answers, the same way religion is. Yeap.

Originally posted by FaiscaI'm not on the fence when it comes to gays. Being gay is wrong in my eyes, it's disgusting.

What's so disgusting about it?

1. Being gay isn't a matter of preference, or lifestyle, it simply is the way some people are. Who the hell CHOOSES a life of persecution? I've seen some clever opponents try and compare it to pediphiles, etc. Sorry, no dice. Being in a gay relationship is a choice between two CONSENTING ADULTS, and therefore isn't hurting anyone...and this is how it is WAY different than such a comparison. Let's face it, many of us by now have good friends or relatives that are gay (in my case, both situations apply), and they aren't going anywhere soon, no matter how much their opponents want them to. So the choice then becomes tolerance, or bigotry. Which do you choose? There isn't a C option....sorry.

2. Marriage is more than some excuse for permitted procreation, or a religious ceremony. It is a joining of two souls who care for one another. If two gays want to celebrate this, and share it with friends and family, as well as have such a union recognized by the state, I see no reason to oppose it. And there are many civic reasons for this, such as in the event of death of a spouse, insurance and tax benefits, etc. Not to mention, there are many gays out there raising children, and many benefits marriage has to such children in such homes. Opposing gay marriages is akin to sticking your head in the sand in this day and age.....

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
You Mr. Stone are a fanatic. What is dangerous here is people like you taking a book way to seriously and imposing your opinions as truth on other people. There is no proof that your god or any other god exists. Why not spend your time on trying to find out what is really out there?? Maybe you have thoughts about hurting people or can't handle your life without religion in it. I can respect that but what you have to understand is that there are people out there who can control themselves, who can look at their life and be happy with it, who don't have impulses to do harmful things. Therefore what could religion do for them? Nothing, religion is needed for people who need it, it is a crutch, or a guide, for people who can't deal or aren't happy with life. You may need a set of guidelines and a insta answer to life the universe and everything, but with much respect I would ask you to please consider that you're point of view is no more relevant than any one else's.

(With Respect)

Its not my point of view, its that of the Most High.
This religion is a guideline like most of them but the substance of religion is not just right or wrong, because we all do wrong. Religion is people trying to fill voids that everyone has because of sin, we might not know it but we all search to fill that void and Christ is the only one who has proven to be diaty and the only one who's name can chase of the Demons and Wash away the Sins.
Like it or not you need to hear what I say so you can make a sound decision not one based on just what you feel. This is as real as it gets. you'll know what I mean when you get there but when you decide to follow Christ it is one heck of a ride. A whole new world opens up that is bright and shiny.

Standing Stones

First off JOHNSmith, you didn't respond to my post... But I'll respond to yours anyway.

Homosexuality disgusts me because it does. Seeing two guys (or two girls for that matter) kissing just doesn't sit well with me. It's my own personal preference. It's like asking why does anything disgust you? It just does.

Before you ask, yes, I feel the same way about lesbians. I'm a 20 y/o guy in college, and yeah, I don't think watching lesbians is that appealing; I think it's just as bad. Albeit its easier for me to watch two hot lesbians in a porn than it is for me to watch two guys kissing on the street because I'm attracted to women. But that doesn't mean I don't think its any less wrong. I like watching people get shot up and blown to bits in a good action movie too, but that doesn't mean I agree with murder or violence.

Also, Gazrok. I have to ask you if you would condone incest. Would a brother marrying his sister, or a mother marrying her son be something you would agree with legalizing? They are two consenting adults who can love eachother just as much as two gays can, yet I don't think that's right either. I just want to know what you think.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Faisca]

Originally posted by FaiscaScience is a search for answers, the same way religion is. Yeap.

Science is just as flawed as religion. Religion isn't a search for answers it gives them to you using the main premis that there is a omni present supernatural being watching over you. Science on the other hand uses math as one of it's main premises, and math has just about as many flaws as the idea of a all seeing all knowing being dictating how you should arrange you personal beliefs.

JOHNSmith, I ask you. How do you live your life? You don't believe in a higher being, and apparently you dont agree with science or math... Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but you probably are. I just want to know.

And for me, religion is a search for answers. You think I don't struggle with my religion? I am part of a faith that tells me not to eat shellfish lest I die, and also tells me to love everyone and turn the other cheek were I to be harmed. Christianity, and religion in general, are very hard things to deal with if you have an open mind. I question my religion all the time, I struggle with what I should believe in. It's no cakewalk, let me assure you.

OK, well I didn't understand your "Adam and Eve" line, elite, but sure, why not. You see, thats what I was saying, exactly what you said. They were born that way, so how can God be perfect, if he made beings that would be persecuted? That makes no sense. I really don't see why someone can be 'anti-gay', because that really just totally disagrees with respecting one another and respecting them for WHAT THEY ARE. I just don't understand..how can you call yourself a good person when you discriminate and hate? Can't you see that all you are doing is sinning yourself? Even if you are not a religious person, every human has that 'feeling' or the conscience, HOPEFULLY, you know when you do something good or bad. As a HUMAN BEING, respect eachother, don't hate...all hate does is build more hate, until it becomes a war. Why can't we just accept people for what they are, and let God do the judging (LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS) and we just love and respect eachother?

-wD

-wD

Well said, WebDevil. I agree with you. There is too much hate in this world, which is exactly why I don't hate homosexuals. I just don't agree with the way they live, whether it is natural or a choice. I don't hate the people, I just don't agree with the lifestyle (not saying I hate it either, just don't agree with it)

Originally posted by FaiscaHomosexuality disgusts me because it does. Seeing two guys (or two girls for that matter) kissing just doesn't sit well with me. It's my own personal preference. It's like asking why does anything disgust you? It just does.[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Faisca]

No sir, anything that disgusts me will have a very good and very thought about reason that makes sense to myself and that I can reasonable and rationally explain to other people. I do my best not to keep any notion as a personal opinion with the reasoning that "it just does" disgust me. You see I am happy because I understand myself and I fill that void stone was talking about with the knowledge that I do not know the truth, I do not pretend to know the truth, and I will not believe in something simply to fill a void. Just because you can fill it doesn't mean you filled it with the truth.

Also, Gazrok. I have to ask you if you would condone incest. Would a brother marrying his sister, or a mother marrying her son be something you would agree with legalizing? They are two consenting adults who can love eachother just as much as two gays can, yet I don't think that's right either. I just want to know what you think.

No, I wouldn't agree with it. And this is really comparing apples to oranges. For one thing, an incest relationship likely STARTED when one was a minor. In any case, it is taking advantage of that trust sacred between mother and child, or sibling and sibling, and as such, is wrong on a moral level.

Second of which, there are serious health reasons for not inbreeding, such as retardation, etc. and insanity. Hell, look at some of the ancient royal lines that practiced it, and the nuts it turned out!

I'm curious to see if anyone's actually looked into the legality of marrying siblings/parents, etc. I'd bet there are likely a few states or areas that it ISN'T illegal....but I'd still disagree that THAT is just plain wrong.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
No sir, anything that disgusts me will have a very good and very thought about reason that makes sense to myself and that I can reasonable and rationally explain to other people.

Perhaps I'm just bad at explaining the way I feel. But I can't explain to you why blood and guts disgusts me, it just grosses me out. I know it's not the same as gays, but the fact that I can't really put it into words is the same deal. It's not like I'm saying I hate something just because I do. I'd expect a reason for hate of something. I just can't explain why something disgusts me. Be it homosexuality, blood and guts, scat (poo and pee in sexual situations) S&M, etc. It's all disgusting to me, just because it causes me to cringe.

Maybe I'm not explaining it well enough, but that's all I can give you. Sorry. Is there anyone out there who understands what I mean or feels the same way? How can you describe what disgusts you?

Thank's for your reply, Gazrok. And you make some valid points, but I don't think its really comparing apples to oranges. More like comparing a Washington to a Red Delicious... In my opinion anyway.

This is simple......
Gayness goes against the natural order of things!!!!!
Being gay is not a priveledge or a right......IT IS A CHOICE!!!!! The sooner people understand this the better!!!!! MARRIAGE is between one MAN and one WOMEN to ensure the survival of humanity. Anything else is WRONG!!!!!!
To those who speak of the divorce rate and such.......MAYBE WE SHOUKD TEACH BOB AND MARY HOW TO LIVE TOGETHER, BEFORE WE GIVE BOB AND JOE THE OPTION!!!!!!