Very Few Are Prepared

Need dictates action.

If they were in a position where there was no other choice, then they would have to have drank it.

Personally, OP, I am in a similar mindset as you when it comes to these things. It's no big deal.
It does make me chuckle that so many people fear becoming sick from "bacteria", "dirt" and so on, and yet they drink, smoke, spray chemicals all over their house, eat food pumped full of so many chemicals you can barely taste the food itself.

I've seen people cringe at the idea of eating a carrot from the ground, when we have evolved and developed to do just that.
And they see no problem with spraying themselves and their environment with chemicals that the body certainly wouldn't naturally know what to do with.

I agree most would die in a situation where they had to rely on their own. But I don't think it would be through lack of daring. I think most would die through lack of common sense and natural intelligence.

We've become too domesticated in the way the world works. Just ask the average person how something so simple as rain happens, and they won't be able to describe the process.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Need dictates action.

Great Quote!! and perfect example of life.

Originally posted by citizen smith
Another example is of a couple of neighbours who were round to see my flatmate. I was busy carving blades for my windatron and they were curious to what I was up to.

When I told them that I was building a wind generator to act as an off-the-grid power system one of them laughed and mocked me, calling me a nutter, and the other made the remark of "..but, isn't that illegal?"

I find that far feteched, either that or you have really stupid neighbors..

I think the gllom and doom crowd are jerks... spreading fear needlessly. This isn't the 1930's. We aren't all "gonna die" and we certainly won't need to drink pool water (good luck with that)

However if someone were building their own wind power I wouldn't laugh, I'd join them. And todays generation is a lot like me.

So you either made that up for effect or you live in stupidville which has ZERO to do with being unprepared. A lot of you probably come off as survivalist nutjobs spewing fear and that'll get you shunned everywhere.

The "I know were all gonna die so listen to me" gets the same response as that guy with the god sign o the street corner.





[edit on 4-12-2008 by gormly]

Well, I think the elders I would help because the older you get it seems the more closed minded you are so I understand that generation not accepting change. Although the elders should remember the Great Depression. Those who are able to help themselves will be sorry when they find themselves unprepared and wishing they had listened to my madness! The only way I can help them now is by continuing to try to educate them and hope one of the many times something sticks and they start to prepare for themselves and their loved ones. I wish I could welcome all into my home when the SHTF but I can't. That would be helping no one.

[



I find that far feteched, either that or you have really stupid neighbors..

I think the gllom and doom crowd are jerks... spreading fear needlessly. This isn't the 1930's. We aren't all "gonna die" and we certainly won't need to drink pool water (good luck with that)

However if someone were building their own wind power I wouldn't laugh, I'd join them. And todays generation is a lot like me.

So you either made that up for effect or you live in stupidville which has ZERO to do with being unprepared. A lot of you probably come off as survivalist nutjobs spewing fear and that'll get you shunned everywhere.

The "I know were all gonna die so listen to me" gets the same response as that guy with the god sign o the street corner.



Aah I wondered if this forum had some bad eggs or trolls, I thought this forum appeared to good to be true and the more unpleasant aspect of society even reaches here, Off to the KF with this guy.

How do you know we won't have to drink pool water ?
How do you know our supermarkets will be filled with food ?
How do you know your home will have power ?

We have insurance for many things in life. For our cars, our homes,
boats, and even our lifes.

But there is no insurance you can buy that puts food on you table, or power to your home, or clean water to drink. Taking these things for granted is only going to freak you out when they are not there.

peace of mind............

Originally posted by VixWix

How do you know we won't have to drink pool water ?
How do you know our supermarkets will be filled with food ?
How do you know your home will have power ?

We have insurance for many things in life. For our cars, our homes,
boats, and even our lifes.

But there is no insurance you can buy that puts food on you table, or power to your home, or clean water to drink. Taking these things for granted is only going to freak you out when they are not there.

peace of mind............

Hear, Hear, Well said Sir / Madam, Survivalism is only taking insurance to the next level.

reply to post by VixWix


I got a 'Berkley' Water Filter last month.

It is amazing - it will take out every chemical and I can even pour gross green full of bacteria and viruses water in it - and it will filter all the bad out and give me good water.

Why? because if anyone has been paying attention - all of us need to think of ways right now - of being able to survive without our daily conveniences!

Storing food etc. should be something everyone is doing right now.

Originally posted by warrenb
as per the title

it's actually a very good thing because there will be less food and those left will be in need of it. So if a large chunk dies off, it will help the survivors greatly.

Yeah, it may seem like a "very good thing" now, but when it happens, if it happens, and your parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins and freinds die, it's adding that much to your life. Not only do you have to deal with the death of your freinds, your family, and the world, but you have to survive. Maybe you won't have time to think about it, if your on the run from an enemy army or something. Have you ever read The Stand? I remember the part where Frannie had to bury her own father.

How is it a good thing to have to do that?

I don't want to kill people to survive. I probaly could, but it would be hard. I have to admit, I don't have a mind of steel. Some people can only take so much of a living hell, but I guess some can live through it (Elie Wiesel)

Thanks for the laughs, I know it's a serious thread and topic but OH MY GOD my sides hurt. I am prepared, Berkey water filter, no tablets please, guns, ammo, food, gasoline, crank radios and rechargers, AND... Toilet paper. Do not forget the toilet paper your women will freak about leaves...

Anyways thanks for all the laughs about letting the dumb ones die so there's more for us, I never thought of it that way and may just stop telling peope to be prepared, you know MORE FOR US!!!

ROFLMAO!

Originally posted by gormly
I find that far feteched, either that or you have really stupid neighbors..

I think the gllom and doom crowd are jerks... spreading fear needlessly. This isn't the 1930's. We aren't all "gonna die" and we certainly won't need to drink pool water (good luck with that)

However if someone were building their own wind power I wouldn't laugh, I'd join them. And todays generation is a lot like me.

So you either made that up for effect or you live in stupidville which has ZERO to do with being unprepared. A lot of you probably come off as survivalist nutjobs spewing fear and that'll get you shunned everywhere.

The "I know were all gonna die so listen to me" gets the same response as that guy with the god sign o the street corner.

You're shooting your mouth without first loading your head...



[edit on 4-12-2008 by citizen smith]

Originally posted by dooper
I know for a fact that in the event things go tits up, a lot of folks will perish very quickly. Many of you are correct. There are those who would be either physically unable to ensure their own survival, or mentally limited in their options, or just not strong enough morally.

I've been in a situation where we were completely out of water for three days and nights, and could barely stand up. I found a pond with green scum a few inches thick, splashed it aside, and drank deeply.

Would kick over small logs to get the white grubs underneath. Squeeze the guts out and eat the rest.

Some folks will surprise you. Both ways. Ones you thought would survive are all talk. Others you would anticipate being weak, will suddenly come on strong.

Partly, survival will be luck, Providence, preparation, determination, and your ability to avoid confrontation with two-legged animals who only know force.

Be armed, skilled, prepared, and determined. The rest is fate.

reply to post by mansky
That is so kind of you to help the elders. After raising my two children and several foster children and now watching over the teaching of my 7 grandchildren and new great granddaughter I can promise you I have learned to accept more than you can possibly imagine. Nothing shocks me anymore. I accept new ideas and also create new ideas.

The adults that were alive during the great depression are few and far between. Most are dead.

I bought a tractor so I can til my beautiful grass and plant food crops. I and my SO built chicken, hog and cattle pens that now obstruct the beautiful marsh view we once had. I've been working on solar systems for 5 years and about ready to go off grid.

I have many pounds of seeds in my freezer. I've dried fresh vegetables and fruit all summer. I have filled a bedroom with home canned vegetables and meat stews. I planted an orchard 3 years ago.

My weapons are clean and oiled and my ammo plentiful and dry. I can kill/trap any animal walking , swimming, flying or crawling. I can gut it and strip it's hide for later use and I am a heck of a good cook.

And guess what, I know many other old ladies that can do the same things I can do. They are the same ones I hunted and fished with when I was a kid and later a young woman.

Now, how is it you assume you can help this elderly woman and her friends?

What are you going to do when you have no mps's, laptops, cell phones and single serving processed food to eat.

If you make it down to my place we can eat delicious stew, listen to my favorite rock music and keep up with the world using one of my ham radios.

Do bring a talent or other worthy addition to our group. We accept musicians, actors, artist. and anyone with something useful for the community.

We are ready to come together at a moments notice and all have our special jobs to do.

We feel it is our duty and obligation to teach the old ways to the younger generation. We in turn want your suggestions on how to do things a better more productive way. We will teach each other and we will survive if it is at all possible.

By the way, the elders that have not and refuse to prepare are not a concern. The government has a place for their kind. I have no sympathy for those that are too sorry to take care of themselves.

I really do appreciate you wanting to educate us elders. By the way, I've done most all my work from a wheel chair.

wait until they're LITERALLY dieing from dehydration LOL ..

then theyll gladly accept your pool water, WITHOUT the tablets!

It's so true! and thats the kind of future we will have if things go Apocalyptic in that sense. . yikes. .

I would steal some pool water to drink :X if i was dieing and had tablets..

edit: not dieing, just thirsty!

[edit on 12/5/2008 by runetang]

I have a theory about this whole survival thing. While I prepare for a worst case scenario of about a year, and to be self-reliant beyond that, I truly suspect it will go something like this. . .

Shortly after the grocery stores are wiped out of food, the electricity goes off, and people realize it isn't going to change in the very near future, things will get very ugly for approximately two weeks. Rioting, gang violence, looting, etc.

The absolute worst place to be will be in some government shelter.

The first two weeks will be critical. I believe your ability to stay indoors somewhere, away from the heaving mobs of angry desperate animals will be crucial. You simply must be able to keep a very low profile and protect yourself for two weeks without having to venture outside.

After that, I figure the animals will get really desperate and those that have made it this far will be killed off looting or attempting to rob others. Once the law abiding folks have figured out that they can shoot without fear of reprisals, the animals of society will be quickly dispatched. . .and it will be viewed as a blessing.

The downside is if there is only a partial collapse, a sort of limping along in a semi-desperate situation. Then there isn't a chance to rid society of the worst elements.

Once the initial wave has died off, the rest will probably be too weak to be much of a problem. I figure after the first two months of the crisis, things will sort of settle down, then the survivors can begin bartering, setting up community gardens, etc.

I think if people prepare even minimally, they will probably survive most modern disasters.

Unfortunately, my family reminds me about all the food there is at the grocery store and why it's a waste of money to buy camping equipment you may never use.

Originally posted by VelmaLu

Once the initial wave has died off, the rest will probably be too weak to be much of a problem. I figure after the first two months of the crisis, things will sort of settle down, then the survivors can begin bartering, setting up community gardens, etc.

I dont disagree with you but I'd like to highlight this part of your post, after the initial wave has died off what makes you think the rest will be too weak? If anything these people are gonna be the stronger ones for making it through the initial stages, they will probably be survivalists or very determined criminals.

Originally posted by fred3110

Originally posted by VelmaLu

Once the initial wave has died off, the rest will probably be too weak to be much of a problem. I figure after the first two months of the crisis, things will sort of settle down, then the survivors can begin bartering, setting up community gardens, etc.

I dont disagree with you but I'd like to highlight this part of your post, after the initial wave has died off what makes you think the rest will be too weak? If anything these people are gonna be the stronger ones for making it through the initial stages, they will probably be survivalists or very determined criminals.

What the experts used to tell us back in the 70s was there would be a tiered die off in a post apoc world
1 Those killed by the initial event
2 Those reliant of 1 for their survival ( young, old and infirm)
3 Those suffering from post event shiock who simply wither away
4 Those injured and unable to obtain medical help
5 Those who survive but fail to adapt
6 Those survivors preyed upon by scavengers and criminals
7 Those who dont make it through the first winter
8 More die off from disease outbreaks such as typhus, cholera, bubonic and pnemonic plague, those weekend by the event who die from flu etc
Etc etc, twas quite a list and I have probably got some in the wrong order, But I do remember one large group die off was "Those who simply waited to be saved". I reckon in a post apoc wotrld you will see die offs for at least 10 years.

reply to post by Northern Raider


10 years is quite a long time, would it really be practical to start setting up a community after 10 years or would it be more sensible to start, say 6 months to a year after the initial sitX?

I think communities would develop automatically after the event as people would naturally join together in such times, the community itself would depend greatly on who was part of it.

Originally posted by fred3110
reply to post by Northern Raider

 

10 years is quite a long time, would it really be practical to start setting up a community after 10 years or would it be more sensible to start, say 6 months to a year after the initial sitX?

I think communities would develop automatically after the event as people would naturally join together in such times, the community itself would depend greatly on who was part of it.

I agree that people would naturally group to benefit their chances of survival, as soon as the event takes place.
I know the first thing I would do if the SHTF is contact my closest friends and family and make a plan to leave the city.

Take a look at your close friends, and you'll probably find that amongst that group you'll have a natural hunter, a natural nurturer, a natural thinker or strategist...
I think a lot of our programming probably hasn't changed that much over time, women are still attracted to men who can provide, men are still attracted to women who are nurturing, generally most of us require a leadership (regardless of any macho guys proclaiming otherwise :lol in any social group.
We do this all the time without knowing it. When we need a shoulder to cry on we seek our nurturing friends, when we need to have fun and let loose we seek out our friends who are more brave and brazen.

A good parody is the modern hunting; shopping!
Men know what their goal is, they go out hunting for it and return after using as little energy as possible. If there's more than one, one of them will be the planner, dictating the most efficient way to locate said item. If a woman is present, she'll consider the value of the item, its benefits and uses.

I know that amongst my personal close friends I have a team consisting of a warrior, a nurturer, a pragmatist and a planner/strategist (me). Most of us could probably do all those things if we really thought about it, but there is safety in the pack. Each one of your close friends probably has a trait that makes them valuable to you and you to them on a very basic level.

Of course that doesn't mean you limit your team or clan specifically to those people, but it does mean that if you have more than one clear warrior, nurturer etc there will be internal politics.

Oh, and I think those 70's guys were right, I can imagine the "tiered" system of decline, it is common sense really when you see it in type.

I've seen talk of remaining hidden in your home and waiting it out. But in all honesty, I think leaving the urban areas immediately would be the correct action to take.
Of course it might not be depending on the scenario (the zombie apocalypse :lol, but as I see the civil unrest scenario as the more likely and immediate one, I am certain that leaving the home to set up a secluded camp elsewhere would be the way to go.

Why is it that I get the feeling that some "survivalist" might be using poion ivy leaves as toilet paper?

That's the greatest part about the whole thing... those who ARE ready WILL survive... Those who hope or say it won't happen... Better hope their right.

McDonalds won't be open if the SHTF.

Originally posted by fred3110

Originally posted by VelmaLu

Once the initial wave has died off, the rest will probably be too weak to be much of a problem. I figure after the first two months of the crisis, things will sort of settle down, then the survivors can begin bartering, setting up community gardens, etc.

I dont disagree with you but I'd like to highlight this part of your post, after the initial wave has died off what makes you think the rest will be too weak? If anything these people are gonna be the stronger ones for making it through the initial stages, they will probably be survivalists or very determined criminals.

Okay, I'm not talking all events, or all situations, but probabilities. Here's sort of my thinking on it.

Let's say there is some nationwide, natural or man-made disaster. Once people grasp what is going on, there's going to be hordes of people hitting the stores, buying up bottled water, getting cash, buying gas and supplies. It will be frantic and somewhat dangerous.

I'm guessing the people who have prepared are smart enough not to venture out into that nightmare, unless it's to get to their retreat location. They will make the best decision about whether they should stay and wait or go now. They will have OPTIONS because they have met their immediate basic needs.

Their risk of accident, injury or violent crime will be immediately lower. Looters and rioting generally take place in business areas and don't affect people in their homes.

There will be many people gathering at government emergency shelters. These people will expect someone else to take care of them. These large groups of people will be where most of the violence is concentrated.

People will die without water in about three days. Stupid people will not be resourceful. If food and water is not provided immediately, the rioting will become much worse and will likely be initially directed at the shelter workers.

I suspect that in the initial three days will see the largest number of people die, either from injuries, violence, lack of water, etc. Most will die waiting for help.

What you will have left are predators, resourceful people who can protect themselves, and the preppers.

Day four through the end of the second week, I suspect the predators will start tarketing the preppers, or anyone they can. However, the predators will likely be weakened by fighting for survival, and will assume that taking from the preppers will be as easy as it was for the first part of the disaster. Preppers will have the advantage because they have remained indoors, and have had adequate water, food, medical care and sleep.

I suspect if there is little or no law enforcement, these predators will be killed off rather quickly. I think it would be very easy for people to come to the conclusion that if the predators were dead, then everyone would be a lot safer. I would not put it past people to simply hunt them down. You loot, you die. You rape, you die. You try to break into my home, you die.

Even if they do not meet their demise at the end of a gun, by the second week without food, they will not be able to put up much of a fight. Most people die without water in three days; without food in three weeks. They do not get stronger, but weaker and more desperate. They will make more mistakes, have more injuries, and take greater risks. So by the second week, the numbers of people who didn't prepare dwindle.

Your survival odds are much higher remaining indoors, drinking, eating and sleeping as opposed to roaming around a disaster area, using force to gain entry, fighting with armed people, etc.

I suspect the number of predators and resourceful people will be small by the end of two months. The preppers will probably be greater, and by banding together, will find safety in numbers.

I am confident there will be exceptions to the rule, but I'm talking probabilities here, not individual circumstances.