British Armed Forces

I was shocked to learn this morning, that the UK Government is going to scrap much of our forces to save money! We have 3 aircraft carriers. 2 are being scrapped and there are rumours that the 3rd might follow soon. Surely we cannot fight a war without capital ships to lead task forces?

What would happen if the Argentinians decide to go after the Falklands again? There is no way that our navy could lead another fight to liberate the islands again.

(Source: Daily Telegraph/Consertives.com)

Have you heard of "The Air Defence Gap" too?

Between 2006 & 2012 We (the UK) will have no real combat aircraft; as the current aircraft, the Tornado GR4 and the Tornado F3 and Jaguar and the Sea Harrier are to be retired and their replacements are not set to enter service until the Eurofighter and the JSF.The tornado Gr4 replacement is not set to enter serive until 2017!!! The Chief of the Royal Navy has said that if the PM was to ask him to hold a major operation, without US support, we would be unable to do it.
There seriously needs to be something done about this.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by minimi]

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by minimi]

Well thats not good.
Isnt's Britains main defense its navy?
And scrapping 3 aircraft carriers, you think they would get rid of something smaller like a cruiser or something.
Oh well, i guess them carriers cost alot of money.

I really wouldn't worry about it too much, they're bound to have something up their sleeve.

This could include our own UN army, it could mean we have new technology for this not to be needed anymore.

Or badly it could mean that we are going to rely on the US to protect us.
We've seemed to have set them up as the spear head, so that if lightning ever comes down on "The Coaliton Of The Willing(TM)", it's going to come down on them alot more than us even though we're right beside them.

They might be scrapping the 3 through deck cruisers (they're not carriers) but they have laid down the plans for two new carriers which will be bigger than almost anything else ever used by the Royal Navy.

www.mod.uk...

The Invincible class through deck cruisers are old. They've been in service for over 30 years - Invincible was commisioned in '78.

You could panic if they weren't replacing them with something better, but as this is not the case, it doesn't really matter.

I have just read that the 2 new aircraft carriers that were ordered from BAE are going over budget, and that features in them may need to be scrapped, or other vessels.

source:Conservatives.com

See, I'm not surprised to learn that.
We wouldn't just go through with scrapping them without a back up, I mean, we are in a "War Against Terrorism(TM)" aren't we?

Originally posted by minimi
I have just read that the 2 new aircraft carriers that were ordered from BAE are going over budget, and that features in them may need to be scrapped, or other vessels.

That's not really news. When the MOD go to the government, they always ask for everything top of the line, state of the art and sometimes totally un-necessary. The government grants it at first, gets it costed and then cuts it down in price.
Every single peice of hardware that the MOD has ever got - from aircraft carriers to rifles, has been cost cut in some way.

I'm no fan of Labour, but the Tory accusation is pure bunk. What the MP isn't telling you is that this is the way that defence procurement always works.

Why should it all be over budget and take until 2015 to complete?

I fail to see how during WW2 it took 11 years to design and build a ship?? If that were the case how were we able to win?

Originally posted by Humpy
What would happen if the Argentinians decide to go after the Falklands again? There is no way that our navy could lead another fight to liberate the islands again.

maybe we could just refrain from fighting a colonial war and give the island back to its legitimate 'owners'. its like argentina claiming rights to jersey. nonsense.

incidentally, whereas the tories have committed themselves to defence cuts, brown has promised increases in real terms next year.

Originally posted by bolshevik
maybe we could just refrain from fighting a colonial war and give the island back to its legitimate 'owners'.

try telling that to the inhabitants of the Falklands.

Originally posted by EvilSpallacus
try telling that to the inhabitants of the Falklands.

id be happy to. id say "you now have self-determination. you are free from the fetters of colonialism." the ex-pats might be a bit angry, but i dont really care about them, they have no legitimate entitlement to the land.

Originally posted by bolshevik

Originally posted by EvilSpallacus
try telling that to the inhabitants of the Falklands.

id be happy to. id say "you now have self-determination. you are free from the fetters of colonialism." the ex-pats might be a bit angry, but i dont really care about them, they have no legitimate entitlement to the land.

But if you want to think like that 80% of the land in the world doesn't belong to the people that claim it as there's.
The USA and Australia where taken from the natives. Should it be given back to them!

As for the MoD cut's. It's the British way and in a way that whats make our army pretty dam tough. If you can fight with # kit you must be good. Plus it stops you relying on too much tech.

Originally posted by bolshevik

Originally posted by Humpy
What would happen if the Argentinians decide to go after the Falklands again? There is no way that our navy could lead another fight to liberate the islands again.

maybe we could just refrain from fighting a colonial war and give the island back to its legitimate 'owners'. its like argentina claiming rights to jersey. nonsense.

incidentally, whereas the tories have committed themselves to defence cuts, brown has promised increases in real terms next year.

If the people living on the Falklands were Argentinian i would say yes, but considering they are British it should remain a dependency. We had to remove the Argentines from the falklands as the implications of not doing so would have been massive not least for the people living on the island but for Britain. Our proud tradition of military might mattered very much. If it happend again public support would be right behind military intervention.

As for our military it will be very weak for a number of years from 2006 onwards until the new planes and aircraft carriers come into service.

[Edited on 3-4-2004 by Sparks]

id be happy to. id say "you now have self-determination. you are free from the fetters of colonialism." the ex-pats might be a bit angry, but i dont really care about them, they have no legitimate entitlement to the land.

What about Hawaii? The USA only made it a state because they surrounded the island and cut off all supplies to it forcing it to surrender to the U.S. They wont care now because most of the people there are American. It is the same with the Falklands. The people there are British no Argentinian. They want to stay with the UK, they have even voted to stay. Blair wanted to give Gibralter back to Spain - they held a vote and overwhealmingly wanted to stay British. Yes, I would have a problem with the Argies claiming Jersey because they are also one of our protectorates - compared to the number of Brits there, there are no Argies there.