"Deny Ignorance" and ATS members, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 12 times
Topic started on 13-11-2008 @ 08:07 PM by Zaphod58
We all know that the words "Deny Ignorance" are the motto of ATS, but I have a few questions about these words for my fellow members:

1. Who decides who is ignorant? Take for example chemtrails. If someone posts a picture of a plane claiming it's a sprayer, and someone who knows aviation comes along and debunks the picture, is the chemtrail person ignorant, or just not knowledgeable about aviation? If someone disagrees with what you say, are they ignorant, or do they have different beliefs than you do? Who is to say that I'm ignorant for believing A instead of B, when I look at the same evidence and see something different?

2. When did "Deny Ignorance" become the be all, end all of an argument? It seems everytime a thread gets kind of heated, the words "deny ignorance" are thrown out like that should be the end of the topic right there, and that person is automatically right for saying it. Again, who decides what's ignorant, and what's not? Especially if a topic shows evidence that can have multiple interpretations.

We all should strive to be less ignorant, but it's up to ourself to decide what's ignorant and what's not. It's not up to someone to tell me that I'm ignorant because I disagree with someone about what they're telling me. Just like it's not up to me to tell someone that they're ignorant because they don't have the experience or the knowledge that I might have. It's up to us to EDUCATE each other, and show each other where to find the proper information and the answers to questions. Not decide that since they believe differently, they're ignorant and try to shout them down with those two words.

Denying Ignorance is a good thing, but it's not the be all, end all that people seem to make it out to be in threads lately. Just because you can say "Deny Ignorance" to someone doesn't make you right. YOU may think that you're not being ignorant but the other person may think that you ARE being ignorant. Unless someone is denying absolute, ironclad, 100% positive evidence, then who can say if that person is being ignorant or if they just have a different view of things than you do? When did having a different view become being ignorant? I thought that the idea was to think for ourselves, not end up with all the same ideas, or all the same views.

Deny Ignorance!


reply posted on 13-11-2008 @ 08:13 PM by The Utopian Penguin



reply posted on 14-11-2008 @ 08:31 PM by reticledc
reply to post by badgerprints



In order to deny ignorance, one must first be willing to call their own assumptions of what is correct into question.
Just because one may feel they know the answer to something, does not necessarily mean it is correct. There are also different levels to the answers to any particular question. one must be able to look past, examine, and make the determinations for ones own self to what is correct or not. Even then, that answer is subject to interpretation.

To deny ignorance, one may struggle their entire life, beyond any doubt in their own mind, that an answer is correct, only to be dis proven later by someone else. To deny ignorance is a constant struggle, that in reality has no chance of ever being fulfilled in anyone's own lifetime.
One must eventually settle upon an answer, accept it as fact, and move on, or be condemned to search for the answers for their whole life. Every question that finds an answer, only expounds on the question itself, raising new questions. Denying ignorance is all but impossible for us, for if we settle on any answer, we are being ignorant of any other possibilities.



reply posted on 14-11-2008 @ 10:50 PM by Hal9000
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Being an old timer here at ATS, I remember an explanation of the motto "Deny Ignorance" on the home page, which has since been removed. Now in the About ATS link on the home page it says "Deny Ignorance is what we do", but I like the original explanation better.

It said that denying ignorance was finding the truth of something. As the OP stated sometimes the truth is more of a belief, but I don't agree. It is either true, or it isn't. The problem is, in a place with so many people and opposing views, how do we find the truth?

The way it was explained was that the truth was usually found somewhere in between the two extremes of any given discussion. The truth was usually found in the middle where most of the people usually stood.

Ignorance can come in many forms. For some it is simply the absence of knowledge. For others it is having false knowledge. You can not find the truth without looking at both extremes, and that is why we welcome all views as long as people respect each other. Without the extremes, we can't find the truth.

Denying Ignorance is the ability to discuss a topic and explore the extremes to find the truth. Sometimes that means adjusting your opinion as new information becomes available. It is those that cannot adjust or change their mind that allows ignorance to thrive. None of us know everything and we can all learn something new from each other. That is "Denying Ignorance".

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



reply posted on 15-11-2008 @ 12:18 AM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Hal9000



That is what Denying Ignorance SHOULD be. But somehow it has become the be all end all to many threads to shout those two words at everyone, and think that you're right.

As to what I said about a belief, it's entirely possible that we can both look at the same evidence and draw two different conclusions to the same thing. I believe that I'm right, and you believe that you're right. That doesn't make either of us actually ignorant. It simply means that we're looking at things based on what we know and drawing different conclusions.



reply posted on 15-11-2008 @ 05:55 PM by reticledc
reply to post by Hal9000



Exactly. Nicely put.
To understand completely, one must understand the extremes that something can go to. Then after all is said and done, a choice must be made whether or not to settle on that answer or continue looking. Even after you settle on an answer, someone may just upset your entire understanding by bringing a viewpoint you may not have considered.


reply posted on 15-11-2008 @ 06:19 PM by gimme_some_truth
Originally posted by Hal9000

Being an old timer here at ATS, I remember an explanation of the motto "Deny Ignorance" on the home page, which has since been removed. Now in the About ATS link on the home page it says "Deny Ignorance is what we do", but I like the original explanation better.

It said that denying ignorance was finding the truth of something. As the OP stated sometimes the truth is more of a belief, but I don't agree. It is either true, or it isn't. The problem is, in a place with so many people and opposing views, how do we find the truth?

The way it was explained was that the truth was usually found somewhere in between the two extremes of any given discussion. The truth was usually found in the middle where most of the people usually stood.

Ignorance can come in many forms. For some it is simply the absence of knowledge. For others it is having false knowledge. You can not find the truth without looking at both extremes, and that is why we welcome all views as long as people respect each other. Without the extremes, we can't find the truth.

Denying Ignorance is the ability to discuss a topic and explore the extremes to find the truth. Sometimes that means adjusting your opinion as new information becomes available. It is those that cannot adjust or change their mind that allows ignorance to thrive. None of us know everything and we can all learn something new from each other. That is "Denying Ignorance".


I was just about to say something along those lines, all though I dont think I was here when they had the old description of what "deny ignorance" means. Denying ignorance means so much to so many. here is what "Deny Ignorance means to me.

To me, Denying ignorance means, to learn all I can. To research and work hard to find little tidbits of truth as much as possible. To deny ignorance is to consider both sides. It is to look into all possiblities. It is too help find different possibilities.

Denying ignorance, is not allowing hoaxers and trollers to spread lies. It is to not allow this site become corrupted with BS.

It is following what feels right in my heart. It is applying knowledge, facts and common sense to a topic that might not have much being used.

It is thinking things through. It is researcing and knowing what you are talking about before posting or creating a thread.

Deny ignorance means Doing all you can to help yourself and everyone else find truth.

That is what Deny Ignorance means to me.It is such a simple phrase yet it means so much to me and so many others.


That is what it means to me.

Deny ignorance.


Thanks for the opportunity to say that. I like this thread. It will no doubt give people the chance to state what "deny Ignorance means to them"

I suspect there will be quite a few good answers.

Flag and star

Dust

[edit on 15-11-2008 by gimme_some_truth]


reply posted on 15-11-2008 @ 07:49 PM by schrodingers dog
reply to post by gimme_some_truth



You can't star posts in the BB&Q Forum.
Ignorance denied.
See how simple it can be,
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