UN 'has run out of Gaza food aid'

Originally posted by dooper

Instead of concentrating so hard on striking back at Israeli's, which hasn't been all that successful over the past 60 years, maybe they would be better served if the tried to clean that **it hole up, build schools, water systems, markets, and begin farming. God knows, the other Arab countries have poured enough money in there to gold-plate the entire region.

as ive posted earlier, the walls, checkpoints, and theft of land have nearly wiped out any sort of economy that existed in the gaza area.
there was a show on tv a few years ago called "Ford Transit" and it showed how folks lived in that area. How does a 4 hour delay at a checkpoint sound on your drive to work? you think your boss is gonna tolerate half a day late? you think farms that the owners cannot access harvest themselves?

funny you mention they should build their infrastructure, how exactly do you propose they do it..?

More than 1.4 million Gaza Palestinians are facing an impending health disaster from decaying sewage and water systems that lack vital spare parts, fuel, and maintenance work, due to an Israeli economic siege on the Gaza Strip.

....
Since July, the CMWU which maintains the majority of water and waste water networks, pumping stations, and water wells in the Gaza Strip, has been unable to perform normal functions because it does not have spare parts.


The World Bank and UNICEF have reported that despite repeated requests Israel has forbidden the importation by any means -- sea, air, or by land across the Egyptian border -- of consignments of pumps, metal pipes, air and oil filters, and other goods that need to be obtained from outside Gaza

......

As a result 15 percent of Gaza's population -- 225,000 people -- get water for only two hours per day. Gaza has an annual population growth rate of 3.6 percent and the water extracted from the coastal aquifer is not being replenished.


Furthermore, the poor quality water has not been tested for more than a year, because laboratories have been unable to import chemicals to test it. WHO tests carried out several years ago concluded that Gaza's water is unfit for human consumption.

www.metimes.com...

Sell the damned guns, mortars, and rockets, and buy pumps, merchandise, and schools.

No, that's too hard. Much more fun to hate and kill, and besides, the other stuff is just too much work.

you sound smart so i will trust that you can identify that its nearly impossible to be successful in the gaza strip. they cannot even pump their sewage, you think they are gonna have a bustling economy. And yes i will say there has to be response to rocket attacks in israel, but isnt it common practice to punish the perpetrators and spare the civilians?

several humanitarian organizations have pleaded with israel to let them through to give aid and they refuse. your talking about a million+ people who are at the mercy of wether or not israel will let them eat food that day.

Indeed, when Palestine makes any effort to revive their economy, in come the tanks and choppers to either level it or to annex it to 'great Israel'. Many Palestinians still try to do the impossible and become succesfull farmers, and then a wall gets erected separating them from over half their land.

I wonder how you can miss the connection with the Torah by the way, which, for the most part, is all the 'proof' a Zionist will be able to produce when asked by which right they feel historically entitled to Palestine.

Children throwing stones at tanks might not be 'productive', but neither is allowing themselves to be imprisoned in an area that has no chance at all to become productive. I for one admire them, for showing more resistance to injustice then many adults are capable of.

No man is as blind as he who chooses not to see. After asking many times, you still have not responded to the question what you would do if it had been you living in Palestinian conditions.

Much easier to condemn a people based on prejudice and ignorance then to make an effort to understand what they have to go through on a dayly basis I suppose.

I wonder how much chance Andrew Jackson would have had to become a celebrated officer and President, if he had been living in a wasteland, with an occupying army doing their utmost to ensure any attempts at self-sufficiency would fail, and would fail bad, and not like in the US situation where no economic blockade would work 100% but in Palestine, where any goods are let in solely by the grace of Israel.

Frankly, I think you are a disgrace to your heritage, if what you claim is true. But maybe I'm wrong and he would have been proud of you, he was, after all, also a slave owner so he also did not exactly believe in the equality of men under God.

*edit for spelling*

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Phatcat]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by turbokid
not all palestinians are terrorists
this is a case of a few fanatic idiots ruining it for everyone.

Poppycock.

Palestinians dance for joy on 9/11

Just looked at the video and the first time I saw it, I knew it was BS...then the comments underneath the video are very interesting. The media never let an opportunity slip by to perpetuate propaganda. This is one comment from the link you provided:

The video is fake. It was night time over there when 9/11 happened and this first aired in NY (The person said it was a live shot before it was shown). This is a very under reported story. After one day, when networks got the news, it was never played again in NY. Of course, Fox is an exception.

You guys are such slaves. Well, Christmas time is coming. It's time for you all to shop at Jewish Corporations and make them money. Merry Christmas for Israel. your source

oh edit to add, the only reason this video is suspicious to me is that there is nothing at all, no evidence that the people shown in the video are actually dancing for joy about 9/11. I want proof before I believe anything I see on the news.

cheers





[edit on 25-11-2008 by Thurisaz]

Turbo - the walls and checkpoints are security measures required to slow down historical attacks across these borders. Forget that for a moment - what about the land inside the Gaza strip?

Clean it up, start to build. Their decaying water systems are failing because they can't get spare parts? Pleeeeease! I guarantee you, they can get all the spare parts they need for their AK's, RPG's, mortars, and rocket systems they have! You think maybe they put the wrong emphasis on the parts they require?

And this line about Israel blocking the Gaza strip is crap. Gaza has a border with Egypt, and it has the sea. They could even build a port if they so wished. But they rather spend their money on weapons, and fund Hizballah, and their crooked leaders.

It's a matter of priority.

They have, and continue to have millions and millions of dollars poured into the country. So what do they spend it on?

They can't pump their sewage? They certainly can pump lots of rockets and ammo into the country.

It's all about what's important to you. What are your priorities.

Phat - You ask what would I do if I lived in Gaza? I'd get my ass out! Common sense says if it's that bad, then you get out and find someplace that actually allows one to make progress. Not digress.

Building a wall of separation is the opposite of annexing. I see it as a security measure taking in response to the thousands of attacks along that border. And deep down, you'd do the same thing.

Andrew Jackson's father died when he was a boy, and his mother came to live with her sister, who was married to my GGGGGreat grandfather. His life wasn't easy either. He made his own way in some hard times.

As for me being a disgrace to my heritage, at least I don't disgrace anyone with a candiass attitude. And whether Jackson had slaves or not does not reflect on me. Relation by marriage. So your slight missed its mark.

Originally posted by dooper
Turbo - the walls and checkpoints are security measures required to slow down historical attacks across these borders. Forget that for a moment - what about the land inside the Gaza strip?

Clean it up, start to build. Their decaying water systems are failing because they can't get spare parts? Pleeeeease! I guarantee you, they can get all the spare parts they need for their AK's, RPG's, mortars, and rocket systems they have! You think maybe they put the wrong emphasis on the parts they require?

If Israel can stop food and spare parts getting into the Gaza strip, they can keep weapons out as well.. it's all a matter of prioritys, indeed..

And this line about Israel blocking the Gaza strip is crap. Gaza has a border with Egypt, and it has the sea. They could even build a port if they so wished.

But they rather spend their money on weapons, and fund Hizballah, and their crooked leaders.

Shows how much you know, really.. Hezbollah is an organisation of Lebanese origin, the Gaza strip has voted Hamas into office. And this election, born of decades of frustration, is what causes Egypt to close it's borders as well, because Egypt feels it has enough problems with people turning to Islam in it's own borders.

An Islamist fundamentalist party had won the elections in Egypt at one point, after which it was outlawed and persecuted.. so much for Egyptian Democracy, as well.

They could build a port I suppose.. only problem would be getting ships safely in this port, with Israeli gunboats patrolling the water and even firing live ammo on unarmed fishing boats..

They have, and continue to have millions and millions of dollars poured into the country. So what do they spend it on?

They can't pump their sewage? They certainly can pump lots of rockets and ammo into the country.

It's all about what's important to you. What are your priorities.

for a man who states not to like repeating himself, you sure repeat yourself a lot, and it allways boils down to the same 'point', so I'll repeat myself also.. if weapons get into the Gaza strip, not just handguns but Katyusha rocketlaunchers (those are truck-mounted fyi) they are allowed in.

Phat - You ask what would I do if I lived in Gaza? I'd get my ass out! Common sense says if it's that bad, then you get out and find someplace that actually allows one to make progress. Not digress.

So you would roll over and let your land be stolen from under you, looking for a country that will take you in. Immigration laws are not exactly as supple as they where during America's starting days.. I can't think of a country that hasn't got stringent laws in place to ensure only 'economically productive' people are allowed in their borders, save for a few charity cases to keep up appearances.

And when you had a youth in which education was denied, how are you going to grow up to fit that profile?

Building a wall of separation is the opposite of annexing. I see it as a security measure taking in response to the thousands of attacks along that border. And deep down, you'd do the same thing.

Deep down, I would not be there.. there are moral guidelines concerning taking over other people's lands which I adhere to, not for religious but for moral reasons. I don't expect you to understand.

Andrew Jackson's father died when he was a boy, and his mother came to live with her sister, who was married to my GGGGGreat grandfather. His life wasn't easy either. He made his own way in some hard times.

Compared to a random Palestinian, it was still a rosegarden.

As for me being a disgrace to my heritage, at least I don't disgrace anyone with a candiass attitude. And whether Jackson had slaves or not does not reflect on me. Relation by marriage. So your slight missed its mark.

So you bring up Andrew Jackson to somehow get his glory to shine on you, but when his less admirable traits are brought up, they don't relate to you.. right..

You can make all the excuses you want. The Palestinians make choices every day. The stupid decisions of the past reflect greatly on the situation of today.

I don't give two hoots in hell who they choose to lead them. So far, it's been one idiot after another. One bad decision after another.

It's one thing to make a bad decision, and then take efforts to correct the matter. It's quite another to continue, decade after decade to make worse decisions than the year before.

To continue the stupidity is . . . well, stupid.

They can choose their own leaders, spend their funding on whatever they want. So far, they haven't done so well. So far, they only spread their misery.
So far, they go farther down the crapper.

That is why I think these have to be some of the most stupid people on earth.

Originally posted by dooper
You can make all the excuses you want. The Palestinians make choices every day. The stupid decisions of the past reflect greatly on the situation of today.

Earlier you said 'all water under the bridge' , and now you state it is a problem that has it's roots in the past.. make up your mind, will ya?

I don't give two hoots in hell who they choose to lead them. So far, it's been one idiot after another. One bad decision after another.

It's one thing to make a bad decision, and then take efforts to correct the matter. It's quite another to continue, decade after decade to make worse decisions than the year before.

To continue the stupidity is . . . well, stupid.

They can choose their own leaders, spend their funding on whatever they want. So far, they haven't done so well. So far, they only spread their misery.
So far, they go farther down the crapper.

That is why I think these have to be some of the most stupid people on earth.

Look at the history of.. say.. the USA.

Is that réally much different from what you attribute to Palestine?

Americans also choose their own leaders, also spend their money on whatever they want, and are experts at spreading misery.. how much dollars per minute does the US spend on war again? All while the economy is going down the crapper? Just pray your sewage systems, water supplys and food chain does not disintegrate, as well, in the very near future as a result of 'brilliant global strategy' by the people the majority elected.

And they (American leaders) are choosing the path of violence even though not under siege as Palestine is, and has been close to a century.

At least the Palestinians had several options which differed day and night about how to deal with problems, as opposed to having a two-party system where the two partys are carbon copys of each other.

Which makes them more Democratic imho.

And they can spend their money on edibles, indeed. They'd get stopped at the border and held indefinitely untill they're inedibles, but hey, what the heck, it's a choice I guess...

reply to post by Phatcat

The US is nothing like Gaza.

Our water systems work. Our school systems work. Our roads, work. Our sewage systems, work. Our warmaking abilities are unequaled.

By contrast, nothing in Gaza works, and they cant' even fight worth a damn.

C'mon, man. Admit it. They're stupid.

Stubborn, sure.
Bitter, no doubt.
ill-educated, yes.

But stupid? Stupid is denying facts to cling to a misinformed view.
Stupid is calling an entire population stupid.

The US' infrastructure is still performing, I couldn't agree more.

But, since the US is nearly bancrupt and finding it increasingly hard to maintain the economy, will it still be that way next year? or 5 years down the road?

You would be better off asking yourself why the USA, with over 10 trillion national debt, would still pump 3 to 4 billions into a country each year so that country can subjugate a people, and fund spying missions on your country to aquire a nuclear program among other things.

reply to post by Phatcat

No, Phat. Stupid is as stupid does.

And your hopes for the US to go down the crapper will have to be postponed for a while.

Yes, we have troubles, but our country has been broke before. And we came back greater than ever.

All our leadership would have to do to reverse this problem within twelve months is to drop all taxes to a flat ten percent. They too, are stupid.

No, the US isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Maybe in light of this economic downturn, we should cut off our funding of the Palestinians. They can't seem to do any good with the funding anyway.

That's the thing about stupidity. You just can't fix it.


[edit on 28-11-2008 by dooper]

reply to post by Phatcat

If Israel can stop food and spare parts getting into the Gaza strip, they can keep weapons out as well.. it's all a matter of priorities, indeed..

Food,fuel,energy and what not except weapons - goes through Israel, Hamas does not pay for it, and economy in Gaza makes only rockets for deadly export. EU, certain organizations , even Israel pays for everyday Gaza needs. Thus since it is something official going through Israel it can be stopped - without entering into discussion how moral mass blockade is in times of conflict. Weapons are paid for by Hamas , their smuggling is paid for by Hamas, whole industry of digging tunnels to Egypt and smuggling weapons exists - very rarely it is used for food/spare parts and other necessities since weapons and explosives are higher priority and are paid better for.By Hamas. It is choice of Hamas to buy toys of war and not food, and Hamas are democratically chosen by Palestinian population. Before this round of mess started Gaza had port, airport, access to Israel/Egypt and thus working (though still bad) economy. Smuggling of weapons existed then too but since it did not land on Israel there was no need to at least try and prevent it. Now the choice is conflict. Result is clear. Israel is there, and it will be there , there are millions of people living in Israel - Jews, Arabs and others who consider it their home. Until it is accepted by the other side attempts to push it to the sea will result in bad things for both. Since one side is more sane (or as one of Hamas spokesman described it - weak since their choose life while Palestinians choose death) it respects needs of its people more then ideology slogans. Other side chooses slogans and thus pays the price.
Israel retreated from Gaza, evacuated its people disregarding inner political conflicts and result is more rockets and larger range. Farms in Gaza that were used by Israelis and provided a lot of food are not used for farming by Palestinians since Hamas wants to make it into a museum how it drove Israelis out. And since it is a battle zone. If it is a question of providing for its population they should do two things - release hostage in exchange for hundreds arrested and stop rockets. Then Israel will have no excuse for blockade even if it would like to go on with it. Hamas will never do it since normalization of situation in Gaza is against its interests. Why should Israel care for Palestinians if they vote for and support party that uses them as cannon folder?

I guess you're right, stupidity cannot be fixed.. so I have nothing more to add to the thread. I came back to discuss the realitys of the situation because I hoped it would at least make you see not all is realistically the way you have been portraying it, simplistic and biased.

I wasn't thinking I would turn you into a supporter of the Palestine cause, but hoped there was still some humanity left in you, as well as critical thinking. If there is, I haven't discovered it, sadly.

Maybe my view is biased as well, and if you had used real arguments I would have felt forced to adjust my view, to acknowledge I was uninformed about part of the problem and to continue educating myself.

You've failed to bring any arguments like that, and prove you still have a clearly racist demeanor towards the Palestinians and their cause.

I hope some people read this thread in the future, people who are not afraid to do some real research and not cling to the notion 'they're stupid' and base every one of their own reactions based on that preconception.

I will keep an eye on the thread and, if anybody brings more real arguments to the table I will be happy to discuss them, but I refuse to hold a conversation that is slipping into a morass of stupidity..

reply to post by Phatcat

Phat, thanks, but I'll never become a Palestinian supporter - as long as they continue to kill folks.

Just today in the paper, Palestinians launched mortar rounds into Israel, killing some.

There will of course be a retaliation.

And the cycle continues.

Because of stupid Palestinians. There's no other explaining it.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Phatcat

 

Phat, thanks, but I'll never become a Palestinian supporter - as long as they continue to kill folks.

Just today in the paper, Palestinians launched mortar rounds into Israel, killing some.

There will of course be a retaliation.

And the cycle continues.

Because of stupid Palestinians. There's no other explaining it.

You are Christian right? If you would only have taken the effort the watch the video I urged you to watch you would see that the Israelis use the same violence. Anyhow, I think hope is lost for you anyway, you are biased and won't allow any form of objective news information to your brain.

Anyhow, reporters are not granted access to the Gaza strip anymore. One Dutch reporter managed to get in illegally and reported how babies have died in hospitals due to electricity interruptions. The Gaza powerplant gets little to no fuel at all. People are currently cooking on the little bits of wood available.

Just try to imagine for a second if you would live like that for decades, whether you would sit by idle. I don't think so, too many, however, prefer to eat their hamburger and not think of this at all.

unfortunately when the media is not reporting the whole truth, what hope is there for the ordinary people to grasp the reality. Wasn't it during the post WWII war crime cases that one of the key instigator's of the holocaust family said words to the effect of 'if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start believing it'. this is what i see happening here.

I just hope that those who seem to be supporting the unnecessary killing of innocents and advocating a second holocaust of sorts, personally go and see for themselves the realities on the ground in some of these countries. There is nothing more eye opening that living in the shoes of someone else for a day and having to bear the burden of seeing innocent people die before you and having to make decisions about how to feed a family when there is nothing but dust in the pots.

But then again, i see little chance of that happening. As MDV above correctly pointed out, why go through the 'hassle' of making an effort when there is hot food in front of you and a fire to keep you warm whilst putting one's feet up and watching mindless propaganda on the tele.

reply to post by Mdv2


What do you mean by:

try to imagine for a second if you would live like that for decades

If you speak about Israeli occupation of sector of Gaza - it ended several years ago. Since then it was ran by Palestinian authority and Hamas. If you mean Israeli blockade - then it continues for less then two years, since Hamas took control. Economical situation in Gaza was never good, but it is now much much worse. Hamas knows what will make Israel to stop blockade, but it prefers to keep suffering of its own population. No reason to try and make any excuse. Gaza will never be capable to support itself economically. It needs normal relationship with neighbors and trade to go on. Instead rockets are the choice - what exactly will it bring?
By the way - you know that Egypt also occupied sector of Gaza? Maybe you can blame Egypt too - it occupied sector of Gaza for decade plus, it blockades sector of Gaza - just as Israel. Well , not naval blockade but it is the same on land.