The Mind & Heart of a Conservative

Since Reagan, the substance of conservative's character have baffled me.

Just looking at the past decade, their hypocrisies and double talk are legendary (my signature as an illustrative case in point). Considering all the mess our fellow anti-progressive pro-war brothers and sisters have roped us into, it's about time we put them under a microscope. My diagnosis is far worst then a bed cold, the conservatives have a disease. We should have separation of church and state but unfortunately church has found a way to influence the state... through the Republican Party.

The politically active bible belt and religious lobbies have infected the GOP which in turn has infected the country and thus we as a whole have infected the world.

The next decade, will be at best a desperate attempt to put all the pieces back together or at worst the republic will die.

We need to get to the root of this disease, that has the "Mind and Heart of the Conservative" misdirected in the use of logic and understanding.

(Please only adults reply and moderate... note; age is only a number )

..................................

In the 1999 Republican debate the moderator asked each candidate to name his favorite......political philosopher.

George W. Bush, then governor of Texas, replied, "Christ, because he changed my heart." Asked to say more, Bush responded, "When you turn your heart and your life over to Christ, when you accept Christ as the savior, it changes your heart. It changes your life. And that's what happened to me."

[edit on 14-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Since Reagan, the substance of conservative's character have baffled me.

Perhaps you haven't taken the time to understand what true Conservatism is all about then

Just looking at the past decade, their hypocrisies and double talk are legendary (my signature as an illustrative case in point).

The same could be said for some liberals, independents, moderates, etc. There are always those who are on the extreme ends. Furthermore, your signature does nothing to illustrate your point as 1984 is a work of fiction that has no bearing whatsoever on Conservative principles.

Considering all the mess our fellow anti-progressive pro-war brothers and sisters have roped us into, it's about time we put them under a microscope.

Nothing about Conservatism is anti-progressive or pro-war. Again, this is a prime example of your fundamental misunderstanding of Conservatism.

My diagnosis is far worst then a bed cold, the conservatives have a disease. Church has found a way to influence the state... through the GOP.

Not true, and there is no basis for this. The fact that a large portion of Conservatives hold religious values says nothing about the GOP's or any others influence on government. Again your lack of understanding about Conservatism shines through in your thoughtless connection between Conservatives and the GOP.

The politically active bible belt and religious lobbies have infected the GOP which in turn has infected the country and thus we as a whole have infected the world.

I think your rambling a bit now.

The next decade, will be at best a desperate attempt to put all the pieces back together or at worst the republic will die.

I could argue the same point if an ultra liberal like Obama is elected. Although I think it will take much longer than a decade to fix the damage he would cause.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by nyk537]

As i had stated, the mind and heart of the "true" conservative has been drastically altered/twisted over time... and i have stated the cause of this mutation.

As for 1984, we have in our current day this slogan from the novel turned into a reality... and we can thank our current conservatives in power for this.

Give my OP another read, after you have cooled your jets.

reply to post by The All Seeing I


You are confusing Conservatism with the Republican Party.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
As i had stated, the mind and heart of the "true" conservative has been drastically altered/twisted over time... and i have stated the cause of this mutation.

Please explain then what you consider to be the "true" Conservative, because even though you claim to have stated this, I haven't seen it. Also, please give some detail as to how you feel it has been twisted and what caused it.

As for 1984, we have in our current day this slogan from the novel turned into a reality... and we can thank our current conservatives in power for this.

I didn't realize we had any Conservatives in office right now. Republicans yes; Conservatives no.

Give my OP another read, after you have cooled your jets.

I've read it twice now, and found nothing new. My jets are perfectly cool by the way, I only replied to your OP piece by piece.

Did you only want replies from those who agreed with you?

There is no point in me continually sticking my foot in my mouth.

I obviously need some schooling.

Since i am the ignorant one here... you guys educate me... i'm all ears.

Please elaborate.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
There is no point in me continually sticking my foot in my mouth.

I obviously need some schooling.

Since i am the ignorant one here... you guys educate me... i'm all ears.

Please elaborate.

No need to get defensive here my friend. Remember it was you who started this thread.

I'm simply asking that you expand and add some detail to your premise here. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I'm just not too sure how you want me to elaborate on a topic that you created that I disagree with.

nyk537... It would be a tremendous waste of time and effort for me to school you on something i think you should already be well informed about.

You obviously see a whole other reality then i, ... it's like i saw a plane but you saw a saucer... we have all seen planes before but rarely saucers... so please describe what you see to be the Mind and Heart of a Conservative to be?

In the past and in the present.

By the way how many liberal republicans do you know?

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
nyk537... It would be a tremendous waste of time and effort for me to school you on something i think you should already be well informed about.

Why the deflection and sidestepping here? You created this thread and should be ready to backup and defend your positions. I find it hard to believe at this point that you could "school me" on anything, but in any case you are missing the point.

Obviously we have very different views on what Conservatism is, I'm simply asking you to explain yours to me. Again, you created this thread and made claims that you are now unwilling to expand on, not me.

You obviously see a whole other reality then i, ... it's like i saw a plane but you saw a saucer... we have all seen planes before but rarely saucers... so please describe what you see to be the Mind and Heart of a Conservative to be?

In the past and in the present.

I'd be glad to, which is something I can't say for you.

By the way how many liberal republicans do you know?

Not sure what this has to do with anything. I actually don't know many people that consider themselves republicans period.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by nyk537]

I'm heading home for the day now, but I'll be more than happy to accommodate your request for some information tomorrow. That is if one of my friends here at ATS hasn't already taken care of you by then.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by nyk537]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


i'm a conservative, and you couldnt be more wrong.

the ones who sell this country into slavery are the ones who embrace socialism and mean to impose it on the rest of us.

that will be the end of this country, it keeps ending bit by bit, in parallel to the success of the liberal agenda.


perhaps this illustration might shed some light on the situation:



any question?

lol... ok... so you don't understand the point of my OP and you want me to explain it to you? ...sorry i don't buy it, you can't be that clueless.

So since you are so hyped to tell me that i am wrong. Why don't you just school me... you said you'd be happy to, so here i am waiting to be enlightened.

I see the collective objective has been reached... my congratulations goes out to all the thread killers.

I think you guys have ATS's slogan flipped, unless it's been change recently ... it's not "deny facts" or to "deny truth"... it's to "deny ignorance"

Here's a google of "Religion and the GOP"
plus this great article... should bring those of you who are truly clueless up to speed...
Conservatives Against Religion in Politics... When it Embarrasses Them!

...as i was saying why should i expand/elaborate when we already have a wealth of information readily available around us. I just made a simple effort to bring it here for those too stubborn to take their blinders off... to act dumb, be willfully ignorant and twist what we know to be true is no contribution to any discussion on this matter, or any relevant topic that you refuse to acknowledge.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

lol... ok... so you don't understand the point of my OP and you want me to explain it to you? ...sorry i don't buy it, you can't be that clueless.

I can’t be clueless enough to read your initial post, which outlines your disgust at “true conservatism”, even though you never outline what you feel “true conservatism” to be? I can’t be clueless enough to read your initial post, which describes how “true conservatism” has been corrupted and twisted; even though you never describe what you believe has corrupted and twisted it? I can’t be clueless enough to figure out how you somehow equate conservatism with being a member of the GOP, even though you never explain that correlation?

If that is clueless, so be it.

So since you are so hyped to tell me that i am wrong. Why don't you just school me... you said you'd be happy to, so here i am waiting to be enlightened.

We’ll get to that in a moment, but I want to reiterate that isn’t my intention. I am not “hyped” to tell you that you are wrong; I’m simply seeking to have an “adult” discussion about this, which you seem incapable of.

I see the collective objective has been reached... my congratulations goes out to all the thread killers.

The only person who has killed this thread thus far is you, which your inability to answer direct questions regarding a topic that you started.

I think you guys have ATS's slogan flipped, unless it's been change recently ... it's not "deny facts" or to "deny truth"... it's to "deny ignorance"

Not so. I think you could argue that by denying incorrect facts and untruths, that you are in fact denying ignorance. You have not presented either facts or truths in your posts, only speculations which you refuse to back up and stand by.

Here's a google of "Religion and the GOP"
plus this great article... should bring those of you who are truly clueless up to speed...
Conservatives Against Religion in Politics... When it Embarrasses Them!

Alright, your first link is simply a redirect to a Google search. What are you trying to show us here? Apparently, and to no surprise, the Republican party tends to house more people of faith and religion than others. And? Are you somehow suggesting that people of faith are inferior to those who do not believe, and that somehow that has led what you feel to be “true conservatives” astray?

Your second link is an article that is basically a further attempt to bash people of faith. It suggests that somehow people of faith are “ignorant” and therefore unfit for public office. It also seems to suggest that anyone who takes into account the religious beliefs of someone else is somehow to stupid to be able to vote.

The information you have provided seems to be nothing but baseless hate mongering on the basis of religion. I still can’t seem to find a correlation between the information you have thus far provided, and the intent of your OP, which spoke of the influence of religion on the GOP, but never specified exactly what areas you feel have been influence by this.

...as i was saying why should i expand/elaborate when we already have a wealth of information readily available around us.

Again, because you created this thread here at ATS. If you didn’t want to discuss the information put forth, why put it forth at all. We all have access to search engines, and could have found this on our own; the point of ATS is to discuss these issues, not to simply advertise them.

I just made a simple effort to bring it here for those too stubborn to take their blinders off... to act dumb, be willfully ignorant and twist what we know to be true is no contribution to any discussion on this matter, or any relevant topic that you refuse to acknowledge.

I refuse to acknowledge anything, I will discuss and refute any information you provide to the best of my abilities.

For further information, please see this thread

[edit on 15-10-2008 by nyk537]

It's OK to be confused what "conservatism" means these days. Even Buckley Jr. is confused, as posted in this thread

This is what this former conservative had to say:

I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for

It's OK to be confused what "conservatism" means these days. Even Buckley Jr. is confused, as posted in this thread

What Buckley fails to realize in his assessment, is that we have not had eight years of conservative government. George Bush is no conservative my friend, and most would agree.

What we have here is, again, a case of people confusing conservatism with the republican party. The two are not one and the same. The conservative ideology has not changed, and still stands for the principles. What has changed though, are those in power who use the disguise of conservatism to gain support.

We haven't seen a real conservative in office for a long time now.

You make me wonder if you have grown up in a bubble. I think i have made myself perfectly clear from the get go and then again with the post/links. You are very eager to get into a fight... "fighter". I'm not looking to deny anything or spread hate... only awareness. By you twisting my intentions with every jab just shows your testosterone knob is turned up too high and could care less about the subject at hand.

Let me once again spell it out for you, in yet another way... the Christian Coalition and AIPAC have hijacked the GOP and everything they stand for. Their influence is so pervasive they have the Democrats spooked into giving a song and dance to this demographic of politically active bible belt conservatives and zionists. The people of faith i am referring to don't deserve a vote if all they are going to do is vote what their bible/torah and pastor/rabbi tells them to. We need voters who are independent free-thinkers, preferably with a conscious and have their heads in lead of their hearts.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

I won't waste any more time trying this with you, as you obviously are not going to participate in a discussion here. I will however, correct you one the one thing that seems to be the premise of your argument here.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
The people of faith i am referring to don't deserve a vote if all they are going to do is vote what their bible/torah and pastor/rabbi tells them to.

Sure they do. Every citizen of this country deserves their vote whether you like it or not. If they want to vote based on what their stuffed animals tell them at night, they have that right. That right was fought and bled for by young men and women going back to our initial declaration of independence.

Discussions are possible when all parties involved focus on the topic at hand... if you have people who care only to hear half of what you say and the other half is screened through a filter... arguments are more likely to occur... not discussions.

You can leave your sword and viking helmet at the door... and join me at the round table if you so choose.

With that said...

Yes americans have died to protect the right to vote ...which gives even more reason for people to be competent well informed voters.

When people make bad choices in matters that directly effect others lives, we as a society intervene in preventative ways to encourage people to make good choices.

For instance... we don't want drunks to drive or teenagers to get pregnant.
To prevent such disasters we provide mandatory education in these areas.
...same should be true for voters... though taken even more seriously.

We should have a series of classes that voters are required to take during the election year... before they are allowed to vote. Incentives should be provided to every american to encourage them to complete the series. The courses should cover the most pressing issues of our day, with relevant research provided on the success rates of different government programs, as well as every member of congresses voting record on every issue and lobby ties, bills passed with synopsis's provided on content including all earmarks.

An educated consumer, makes for a better variety of products to choose from.

An educated voter, makes for a better variety of representation to choose from.

What we have now, is similar to having creationism replacing science ... and abstinence classes replacing sex education in our grade and high schools.

Originally posted by nyk537
George Bush is no conservative my friend, and most would agree.

It follows then that McCain isn't conservative either, because he voted along Bush's lines most of the time. It's fine, McCain is NOT conservative. I don't know then WHAT he is. Some incoherent entity preaching to "fellow prisoners", maybe.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
It follows then that McCain isn't conservative either, because he voted along Bush's lines most of the time.

Get ready for this, because I'm about to rock your world…

We agree on something.



McCain is most certainly not a conservative either. He is much too concerned with "reaching across the aisle" and being buddy buddy with democrats to stand up for what (I think) he believes.