Citizens in Iraq defend with their guns

www.foxnews.com...
FOX News Oct 3 2008

"Until recently, such terror attacks inside Iraq could have coerced the village into sheltering Al Qaeda. Yet this time, the "jihadists" got an unexpected reception. Local men grabbed their rifles and poured fire on the demons, slaughtering them.

Nineteen terrorists were destroyed. Times have changed for Al Qaeda here. Too many Iraqis have decided they are not going to take it anymore. Al Qaeda in Iraq is still fighting, and they are tough and wily, but Al Qaeda Central seems to realize there are easier targets elsewhere, perhaps in Europe, where many people demonstrate weakness in the face of terror."

Our founding fathers would have loved this. As another ATS member or ten said, you can't have the American Revolution, the War of 1812 or any independence from evil with your guns confiscated or limited. It is much easier to defend your country and your fellow neighbors with an AK-47 than with a pistol or deer rifle, but something is better than nothing at all.

Its about time the citizens of Iraq realized that they too have the power to overcome if they simply do something and not cower into a corner.

I salute them.

Cheers!!!!

poured fre on the demons? is this a bible lesson. way to spin the battle against the evil arab empire. did fox provide pictures of the treble sixes and horns on these guys?

reply to post by pieman


That's typical verbiage for a non-western reporter. If you look at the source it should give the name and the agency. Doesn't mean the reporting is any worse just that the translation into english doesn't come across the same as the original intent. IE demons could be bandits, bad men, etc. Some languages are quite colorful compared to english and when translated without being reworded or edited do come across a bit wierd.

Can anyone spot the problem with this?
Al Quaeda are not a big problem in Iraq - they've never amounted to more than 10% of the insurgency. the big problem is militia groups which are not under government control (like al-Sadr's) and who may be pro- or anti- Coalition depending on how the politics are going that week.
It sounds as though they are getting better organised...which is fine until they start disagreeing with you.
Remember, the government there is not universally popular and they still have the conditions brewing for a civil war.

They have learned that the tangos make great target practice. They are usually high as hell and not watching their backs. Line up that rusty little AK front site post on the back of the legs and rip off a burst.....Fun for the whole family! Honestly, good for them. AQ is really starting to piss off your average arab. Which is bad news for the men in beards and panties.

I'm tired of saving people that don't have the b**** to save themselves after we save them. Seems like they only want the foreign aid, and the US is great about dishing out a lot of it without controlling where it is going. South Vietnam was the same problem. Aid was converted to black market sales. Ky was not helping the US prevent corruption, but at the end he wound up running his own liquor store in S. Calif. I guess that was American success. I expect the same from any war we run. Look at the Marshall plan to rebuild Europe. We needed the countries in Europe as trading partners, and needed to help them (and Japan) rebuild. However, I would like to see an accounting of the waste of US taxpayer dollars there.

We kinda buy our way through the world. We buy the terrorists, buy the leaders of the Taliban, buy Israel with billions of dollars in aid, etc. I guess it's working. We conquer, flood with money, pay off resistance, and wind up with a democracy.

Of course, the Iraq democracy hates Christians and is killing them. India is killing them, too. Glad to have them as friends

india's killing christians? any more info on that?

I heard of one or two cases of real civic outrage against terrorists. One time I heard a US patrol watched a bunch of locals as they chased enemy fighters into a building and proceeded to clear each floor, killing them as they went. Unfortunately, Iraqis have no real sense of community pride or civic responsibility. They never seem willing to defend themselves, even though they frequently have their own AK-47s. They figure it needs to be done for them. The only success has been paying the enemy fighters to stop fighting and protect their own neighborhoods.
Enjoy-Polarbear6

Originally posted by Polarbear6 Unfortunately, Iraqis have no real sense of community pride or civic responsibility. Polarbear6

Have you actually served in Iraq or with members of the Arab co-alition or for that matter, have you ever been attached to an all arab unit?

I only ask because of your sweeping generalised statement about pride and civic responsibility.

Do you have first hand knowledge of this lack of community pride or civic responsibility?

Yeah, I've spent 2.5 of the last 3 years there. I've been in Mosul, Kirkuk, Tikrit, and Baghdad. I deal with the Iraqis every day. I would hazard a guess you haven't been here, or you would have agreed with me.
If you find trash in your yard, you probably get angry, pick it up, and resent someone disrespecting your home like that. In Iraq, the trash is left everywhere. The only time I'm aware anyone ever picked up a place was when my unit in Mosul cleared the streets of rubbish just to eliminate places to hide bombs.
Enjoy-Polarbear6

Originally posted by pieman
india's killing christians? any more info on that?

Jim Scott is an ignorant american religous zealot, Indias primary religion funnily enough is, you guessed it...Christianity then hinduism...

reply to post by Polarbear6[/url]

Not having a go at you friend.

I have always found that Arabs are a very proud and very friendly people.

You are right to suppose that I have never been to Iraq and no, I do not know what it is like from first hand experience, but I can only go by what my friends have told me.

Basicaly, your average Arab is a friendly guy who will ask you in to his home and will feed and look after you. That is one of the rules which most arabs follow because it is a sin against Allah not to do so.

I accept that times and moods change but I suppose that were my country to be invaded and over-run by a foreign power who then stationed soldiers on every street corner I, too, would feel aggreived and would take up arms against them.

Oh, I've enjoyed the friendliness and hospitality. I've also enjoyed the lowest, diritest backstabbing tricks, lies, and deceit. But the issue I mentioned was civic pride and responsibility, of which I have seen very little. For a nation where the majority have firearms in the home, they are generally unwilling to defend themselves. I would not place a great deal of faith in their ability to defend their nation, either, and I suspect the US will have troops here to "advise" them and lots of contractors to support them for many years to come. I'm finished out here. This war's a joke. Enjoy-Polarbear6

Originally posted by Wembley

Can anyone spot the problem with this?
Al Quaeda are not a big problem in Iraq - they've never amounted to more than 10% of the insurgency.

I've read somewhere that you only need to replace the important 7% of a nation for a complete revolution, a change of government.

Originally posted by Polarbear6
For a nation where the majority have firearms in the home, they are generally unwilling to defend themselves. I would not place a great deal of faith in their ability to defend their nation, either, and I suspect the US will have troops here to "advise" them and lots of contractors to support them for many years to come. I'm finished out here. This war's a joke. Enjoy-Polarbear6

You sound like a person who has learned a lesson from Viet Nam. Even though we won ground over and over, the country didn't have the b**** to maintain, and the villagers would stand on both sides of the fence. Then there was the black market corruption of our foreign aid. History is repeating itself again. When will we ever learn?

Yeah. My buddy has been over here longer than I have and he says the key learning material for fighting in Iraq are the writings of T. S. (It's S, right? Not E? I can't keep them straight.) Lawrence, the so-called Lawrence of Arabia.

One lesson he repeatedly brings up is T's warning not to give Arabs things. When you dump aid and money and support and weapons and uniforms on the Arabs, and I think you'll see this supported in most instances, they see you as weak and a cow to be milked. In my experience and the experience of the trainers I've talked to, that's exactly how they see us. We're annoying, we're not their friends, and we're a problem to be endured in exchange for the freebies.

We give their police new trucks-they sell them. We provide bottled water for drinking-they steal it and sell it. We give them new weapons-they disappear. We give them fuel for their Air Force-they steal it and sell it. They start a dining facility for their troops and try to strongarm the contractor feeding them to provide prostitutes. The only thing they really respect is force and strict authority. Freebies and flex time don't win their respect. Oh, and don't believe the stories about how they don't get enough power here-the Brits wired them for power down south and they tored down the lines and sold them, too.

I talked to a friend of mine who lived with and trained the Iraqi Army. He said they were only willing to listen and train when they knew there were new weapons, equipment, and tools in the deal. When they were being trained for the sake of training-they ignored him and refused to listen. Look online for the video of US Army trainers leading them in PT. You'll laugh your butt off.

The Iraqi Air Force, a group I deal with on an almost daily basis, have become a major force for corruption. They're trained and shepherded by the US Air Force, but those jokers have become enablers for a bunch of crooked thieves. One Iraqi I talked to told me the new Iraqi Air Force are worse than the old one. He said they're more corrupt, more coercive, and more dishonest.

I kind of figure the powers that be in the military are more interested in creating the illusion the Iraqi military is ready on paper than they are in actually teaching discipline and motivation. Standards don't matter as much as appearances do. This means even when they're caught in serious criminal activities-they get an easy ride. It's pretty scary how much free reign they have. They're carrying weapons on the base I'm on and that frightens a lot of us.

This whole conflict is a big joke to me at this point. I wish the American people could see how thoroughly this whole effort is a waste of their money and their time and their lives. I think a lot of people would be pissed if they saw how this conflict is waged over here. The news and the movies don't really convey it, although Iraq For Sale is a good primer.

Enjoy-Polarbear

reply to post by SKUNK2


According to the BBC article, only 2% of India is Christian.
news.bbc.co.uk...

And you may not be aware of the massacre of Christians there, so here is one of the news references.

www.nasdaq.com...\ACQRTT200809300549RTTRADERUSEQUITY_0422.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=Indian%20P.M. %20Faces%20Flak%20Over%20Christian
(RTTNews) - The European Union Monday pulled up the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for his government's utter failure to prevent what it called a "massacre" of Christians in the states of Orissa and Karnataka -- both run by non-Congress ministries, media reports said.

As you were saying about MY bigotry?

reply to post by pieman


Here's a link to get you started. One of the comments later said Christians are a majority there. Actually, they represent less than 2% of the population of India. For the massacre:
www.nasdaq.com...\ACQRTT200809300549RTTRADERUSEQUITY_0422.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=Indian%20P.M. %20Faces%20Flak%20Over%20Christian