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Gorbachev to form new party in Russia

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posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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Gorbachev to form new party in Russia


au.news.yahoo.com

A Russian billionaire says he's teaming up with former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev to form a new political party that will challenge the country's recent steps away from democracy.

Alexander Lebedev, a former lawmaker who has built a fortune in business and investment, Tuesday said he and Gorbachev would work together in a political movement tentatively named the Independent Democratic Party.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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Talk about a blast from the past, never in my wildest dreams would I have envisaged Gorbachev making a comeback. Good on him. Something needs to be done about the state of politics in Russia at the moment. It has been taking a sharp downturn towards the old Communist system since Putin took over from Yeltsen.


Gorbachev has generally praised Putin for lifting the nation out of the post- Soviet troubles that many Russians blame on the late Boris Yeltsin, a longtime rival of Gorbachev who replaced him in the Kremlin.

But Gorbachev has cautiously criticised the political system put in place by Putin. The United Russia party of the immensely popular Putin dominates parliament and regional governments, while Kremlin critics have been sidelined, sometimes though force.

Earlier this year, Gorbachev suggested that United Russia was in danger of becoming like the all-powerful Soviet -era Communist Party and called for major changes in the electoral system.


au.news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


Good find. Gorbechev is a good man and did much for Russia, and indirectly for the rest of the world. Russia needs more like him and many many fewer Putins.

I'm surprised there isn't more interest in this.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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Of course, the next question is, will the KGB/Russian Mafia allow it?

Russia has been very nearly overrun by powerful 'black market' players, as well as others of a less than savory nature. In that respect, there sort of more like the US than ever before.

I always find myself remembering that the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany corresponded diplomatically to the effect that the only way to destroy the US was in a contest to control the minds of their people. I believed that Gorbachev was NOT of that school of thought. If I am correct, the Russian PTB will never allow a challenge to the 'enterprise' they are undertaking, as we speak.

Oh well, I wish the Russians luck, they are going to need it either way. The Central Banks are the ones with ALL the power.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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My unsupported opinion:
Of course current leaders will allow it. They are those who stand behind it, i am sure. Any opposition party that was suspected of any democracy ideology is stopped. But it looks bad, it shows what ex-KGB guys really are.So what is better to hide it then controled "democratic" party in controled "democracy"?
The other side also has things to gain (or at least to not to loose). The rich guy will be allowed to remain rich, just he will have to support the party. Friendly tax, so to speak. And Gorbachev wants to be remembered as a good leader in Russia, not as a person that sold USSR to the West. Probably he was promissed that.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
Of course, the next question is, will the KGB/Russian Mafia allow it?



Exactly.

How long before Gorbi and his billionaire friend start to exhibit the symptoms of radioactive polonium poisoning?



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:30 PM
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let's not forget Gorby's previous initiative....

en.wikipedia.org...

-



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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(edit) Thread re-opened.

Badge01
Forum Moderator


[edit on 1/10/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
Of course, the next question is, will the KGB/Russian Mafia allow it?


What does Russian Mafia have to do with this? Do not confuses the ex-KGB (FSB for over a decade now) and ROC (Russian Organized Crime). Totally different factions. The ex-KGB power figures were long ago dispersed among various newly formed Russian state departments, the most powerful of which is the FSB. As for the ROC - it is not and never was a single cohesive establishment. ROC is splintered into countless factions, each acting in their own interest. The ROC no longer has its roots in Russian government - those times passed with the oligarchy of the 90's. The FSB can be said to be running Russia now, and even then only as a tool of the government, not the other way around.

And yes it will allow it. Despite what you may think, Russian government has several opposition parties, which also have seats in the parliament, and run for Presidential elections. Gorbachev is free to form his own party, and he will be allowed to do that. If Zuyaganov and Zhirinovsky are allowed to have their own parties and run them as they like, there is no reason why Gorbachev wouldn't. His problem is - that he is still largely unpopular in Russia, and his oligarch buddy isn't going to win him any PR points either.



Originally posted by Maxmars
Russia has been very nearly overrun by powerful 'black market' players


Ahhh really? Who might these players be? You speak as if you know. And what exactly does 'black market' mean in the respect to the said players?



Originally posted by Maxmars
I believed that Gorbachev was NOT of that school of thought.


Gorbachev and the power figures who supported him in late 80's had their own agenda. They didn't bring down the USSR because of "freedom" or "democracy" or any of that bullshat. They saw a political and economic gain from quickly disassembling the Soviet Union into a capitalist state. What they likely didn't forsee, is the rapid decompossition of the country into the state of political anarchy - thats when Gorbachev lost control in the 90's and the country fell into the hands of the oligarchs.

Everybody had their own agenda. Everybody was equally corrupt. Everybody cared only about their own pockets and nothing else. Perestroika and the fall of USSR had nothing to do with freedom or democracy or liberty. It was the result of an inner-struggle within the party ranks, with the dissenting faction gaining an upper hand. To keep that upper hand, they had to quickly restructure the state, and get rid of the old system.

Gorbachev was a communist then, and I think he still is. He just adopted a different rhetoric in the 80's in order to stay in power, and recklessly spun the whole mess out of control. Now he tries to show himself as some sort of great liberator. He is not better than those that remained in the communist party - he just traded in his idealogy for power, but it never materialized and now he has nothing.

I don't oppose the guy - but I think he has nothing going for him. There are more realistic democratic reformers in Russia who already have an opposition party going. For example - Grigory Yavlinsky, Yegor Gaidar, and Boris Nemtsov. Instead of splintering the democratic reform faction into more parties, Gorbachev should join these individuals instead. That is the problem of opposition parties in Russia - they are too splintered and disorganized.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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It's too bad a billionaire won't help Ron Paul form a new party or strengthen one of the current third parties, although even if that happened, it'd probably get no media coverage.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties
Something needs to be done about the state of politics in Russia at the moment. It has been taking a sharp downturn towards the old Communist system since Putin took over from Yeltsen.


What makes you think Russia had any democracy under Yeltsin? There was no democracy, no liberties, no rights - because the country was an oligarchial anarchy. The people had no liberties or freedom, because the government was unable to protect these rights. The oligarchs and their factions ran the country as they saw fit, and dealt violantly with any opposition, including journalists, politicians, and other oligarchs.

There was no democracy in Russia - ever. So Putin isn't backtracking on any democracy - as there is nothing to backtrack on. True - Russia cannot be considered a true democracy now. But the political sphere is not any worse than it was in the 90's, although the economy and standard of living improved substantitally.


This is the main issue that people in the West just don't get. Russia was never a democracy. You can't judge Putin's actions based on some democratic standard like in the U.S. or Western Europe. When Russia came under his control it was a failed oligarchy state, not a democracy. Now it is a capitalist state with a moderate amount of civil liberties, built around a strong central government.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 11:51 PM
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This is absolutely amazing news. Gorbachev is the very man whose Administration imparted Glasnost upon Russia. He also disbanded the KGB (Which Putin was in at the time) when they made an attempt on his life. He split them apart, and essentially followed the British and American systems of Domestic Agencies (ie, FBI, and MI5), vs. International Agencies (ie, CIA, and MI6). Putin however has been reinstating the Dictates of KGB/Politburo Oppression, and completely destroying the very freedoms which Democratic minded individuals such as Gorbachev fought so valiantly for. Davai Mikhail Gorbachev Davai


BTW, "Maloy", I doubt anyone is claiming that Gorbachev is a saint. For that matter, show me anyone that is. However, he did go against the established order of the CCCP, and almost paid for it with his life. The Power Holders did not attempt an assassination upon Gorbachev because he was their friend. That much is obvious.

[edit on 10-2-2008 by TheAgentNineteen]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
He also disbanded the KGB (Which Putin was in at the time) when they made an attempt on his life.


Putin's position in KGB at that time was minor, and he had little to no authority. Putin was the head of FSB only 7 years after that - and he was appointed to that position by Yeltsin. People keep talking about Putin being in leadership of KGB - that was never the case.



Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Putin however has been reinstating the Dictates of KGB/Politburo Oppression


What dictates would that be?



Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
and completely destroying the very freedoms which Democratic minded individuals such as Gorbachev fought so valiantly for.


Whatever it is Gorbachev fought for - he never achieved it. The situation deteriorated badly, and he lost power to Yeltsin in 91. So nobody destroyed any freedoms - since those "freedoms" were never achieved to begin with. Yeltsin took the mess left over from USSR from Gorbachev, and drove it head first into the ground. By 1998 Russia was a failed state, and there was nothing democratic about it.



Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Davai Mikhail Gorbachev Davai


Shto davai? Gorbachev's recklessness is what got Russia into the trouble it was in the 90's. Nobody in Russia is going to support Gorbachev - that is guaranteed. His current intentions may be good, but he isn't going anywhere unless he teams up with the other opposition parties.



Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
However, he did go against the established order of the CCCP


He didn't do it alone. And he didn't do it for "freedom" or "democracy". He did it because by the early 80's there was a severe split in the party, and he decided to take advantage of it. He was but one of many individuals (include some who would later become Presidents of other CIS republics) who engineered Perestroika - as a means to transfer power from one faction to another. Needless to say - they failed miserably. The whole thing was haphazard and reckless, and it spun out of control before they could do anything.


Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
and almost paid for it with his life.


Well he should have seen the August Coup coming. Nobody believed it was going to be that easy. While I agree with his action at that time, and I am glad that GKCHP failed, he still should be blamed for the reckless way in which Perestroika was carried out. In fact, by the time of the coup Gorbachev no longer had much authority left, as Yeltsin became the top man.



Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
The Power Holders did not attempt an assassination upon Gorbachev because he was their friend.


He wasn't their friend. It was Yeltsin and other supporters of Gorbachev that brokered a deal with the "siloviki" during the coup. If not for them, Gorbachev might very well have been ousted, and Moscow would have come under control of the Party.


As for Putin - he didn't undo anything that Gorbachev did - because Gorbachev didn't achieve anything. Putin undid what Yeltsin had done - and for a good reason. Yeltsin failed, and drove the country into the ground. By 1999, Russia needed a radical change, and the current policies simply could not continue. Russia needed to be rebuilt from the ground up, starting with the economy. Remember - it was Yeltsin who realized his own mistakes, and installed Putin to replace him before stepping down. Putin's didn't do everything right, but he did some key things right. Putin accomplished considerably more than either Yeltsin or Gorbachev (anyone with power can destroy an old system, not everyone can construct a new one) - especially for economy. As for democracy - who knows. Russia never had democracy, nor was it heading in the right direction under either Gorbachev or Yeltsin.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by maloy
What makes you think Russia had any democracy under Yeltsin?


I never said Yeltsin brought democracy, the man was a drunken fool and let the country fall to pieces beneath him. But there was a certain innocence to it, in terms of stupidity and lack of intelligence rather than a calculated shift back towards the old days, as opposed to Putin (who has the shiftiest eyes I've ever seen on a human - but that's beside the point).



[edit on 2/10/2008 by Kryties]




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