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It's not bad loans, it's BIG GOVERNMENT

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posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:19 PM
I think some people are missing the big picture and there buying into government spin that these low income folks getting bad loans caused this problem.


I worked as a mortgage broker before I started my own business and people were getting loans and paying their bills. People were making good money in real estate.

The problem is government is too big. It's a BEHEMOTH that's involved in every aspect of our lives. It just grows and grows even when the so called small government republicans ran the Congress and the White House.

They borrowed and spent like crazy. Bush has borrowed more money from foreign governments than all Presidents combined.

We have a 9 trillion plus dollar debt. With 13 trillion dollar economy there's no way that we should be going through these problems. It's because government keeps growing while we are borrowing money.

That's like paying for everything with a credit card and then spending all of your savings at the same time.

This means nothing is getting paid for while government keeps growing.

Bush needs to come on TV and explain to the American people how we are 9 trillion dollars in debt and he entered office with a projected surplus.

Cutting taxes is great but you have to reduce the scope and size of government.

People would have been able to pay these mortgages if Bush and Congress didn't put us 9 trillion in the hole. We would be at dow 15,000 and a booming economy if Bush would have decreased the size of the Behemoth.

Now there talking about a new ageny. The Department of Economic Stability or something. Every crisis that they cause brings more government spending and the BEHEMOTH gets bigger.

Not to mention, these people did nothing about energy even when Al "green thumb" Gore was in the White House with Clinton.

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:39 PM
reply to post by Wise Dome

I feel you Wise Dome! However to place the blame like this on Bush is well, only part of the whole deal.
Im sure you are well aware that Bush is only a puppet. Bush is there for you to focus all your anger and hate upon him.
They want you to place the blame on Bush.. Becasue he can not be held accountable for these actions!
Id like for you to take a look at this Thread here.
I think you are over all right in your post.. And you are very passionate about this.. AS most of us are right now on ATS.
But this whole issue is maniplating us to focus on this.. When the real bad guys are getting off scott free!
I thank you for taking the time to write out this post, and I do agree with you here.
However I couldnt help but notice all the focus you put on Bush.
While I cant stand the man, and fully agree with you.
I want you to know.. That Bush is but a puppet. Being pulled by his masters.
We must find his masters, and bring them down!!!
While I have my hunches his masters are directly connected to the Federal Reserve, Rothschilds.. ect..

Im going to be working with a couple other members here to compile some information in an easy to access thread that will compile, and help us all find the monsters to blame for this mess.

When at the same time.. I think everyone needs to assume a little bit of responsibility on this issue.
WE all had to have our TV's, our video games, talk shows and reality TV shows while they just had their way with this country.
Most of us didnt care until it was to late.

And now that the time is to late.. We are freaking out!! And trying to make sense of all this. When honestly.. The blame falls to many..
The blame and the actions fall across the board!!
But we will be damned if we are to pay and bail out people who failed!!

WE are just trying to live our lives.. Pay our bills and feed our families!
Make a living and just enjoy this life we are given.
But its hard to try to live your life. pay your bills, and do everything else including protecting our country.

Its why we elected people into office.. To take care of that stuff for us.
And they have failed us.. They have not only failed us. But robbed us and taking advantage of the current situation...

But I see more than anything people from different walks of life comming together on this, and standing together!! I think we stand a real chance here!! And it gives me hope to see how much passion people have this week on this issue.

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:50 PM
reply to post by zysin5

I agree with alot of what you said, but for people who think Bush is just an idiot or a puppet are missing the ball.

Bush knows exactly what he's doing while everyone thinks he's a controlled idiot.

In this case I put the most of the blame on Bush because he can control spending with the Veto pen. He didn't.

I also talk about the Federal Reserve and they are greedy, evil bankers who control our government but they pick people who agree with them on these issues.

This is why the "establishment" candidate wins in the Republican and Democrat parties. This way whoever wins the "establishment" wins.

So yes, these bankers run the country and many people in Congress agree with them and many are bought off.

My point here is about how Bush and many in Congress are trying to blame the "irresponsible poor people" when they are the ones that have us 9 trillion dollars in the hole.

These "poor people" did exactly what they should have done. They borrowed money because when you cut taxes, you increase savings and investment . Interest rates were low and credit was easy to get.

When government is borrowing and spending like crazy nothing is getting paid for an 9 trillion dollars later a new crisis occurs and government grows.

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:52 PM
Big Government Indeed.

But not for a second do i think Bush is in control any longer, if he ever was, I and a few friends were discussing this very thing, most of the understanding of what has and is happening, leaves several people trying to fathom what exactly is about to take place, there has to be more to it than what we see.

It is almost as if the World is under some kind of spell which prevents them from seeing something right under our noses, myself included, there has to be something else, nobody can tell me that no-one saw this coming? did we all just wake up and say, what happened? and now they want everything to be handed over? all of your debt, your personal financial problems.

I asked this same question the other day, what powers will these new agencies have? will they be able to appoint Agents to enforce whatever powers they will have? also will other debt like credit cards or loans be included in this supposed remedy? if so just like passing a bad check at the grocery store, will some agency have the power to arrest people who cannot repay their loans and credit card bills? they can repossess your house, so what will they do for the rest?

Is this where the rumored FEMA camps come into play? no house so your homeless, the Government surely cant allow children to be homeless in their millions can they? to many children for Child Services to rehouse? makes sense they would use the excuse to keep families together by putting them in a camp for their safety.

So if that is the case, and remember this is just trying to find another piece of a huge puzzle, if that is the case, how long ago where the camps built, because that will be at least amount of time, and how long they knew this was going to happen.

I'm not talking about underground bases in Denver International Airport (DIA) are the pictures i have seen of supposed camps here on ATS real? what about the 300,000 or more plastic coffins that have been seen? and the trains with shackles? if all these things are real, is this the time they where meant for? is this the end stage of a massive game?

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Wise Dome
My point here is about how Bush and many in Congress are trying to blame the "irresponsible poor people" when they are the ones that have us 9 trillion dollars in the hole.

Correct! And I do fully agree with you here! You have made a good point.
But let me explain myself so I do not seem like the run of the mill conspiracy theorist.

I belive Bush is very intelligent and the whole idea of Bush being dumb or having a low IQ is simply a front.

He knows damn well what he is doing! And I agree with you 100% on that.
Its tricky. Becasue he has the wool pulled over so many peoples eyes.
He plays the fool, when the whole time he is a master in his own realm.
The son of a father.. Whos role in this life is beyond most our measure.

Even I can not put my finger upon him. He is a true charater, and at some points has a likable notion about him.
Now dont get me wrong.. I dont like the guy one bit.
However he has alot of people fooled, into thinking he is the fool.

I like this saying here..

Who is the fool? The fool? or the fool who follows?

Thanks for your reply and taking the time to listen

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:09 PM
A distributed control system (DCS) refers to a control system usually of a manufacturing system, process or any kind of dynamic system, in which the controller elements are not central in location (like the brain) but are distributed throughout the system with each component sub-system controlled by one or more controllers. The entire system of controllers are connected by networks for communication and monitoring.

That is what money is.A DCS.Nothing more nothing less.
Setup by the top guys Rothschild Rockefeller, to control the world.
The government is NOT elected by the people to run things for the people.
The government is elected by the elite, to control the people for the elite.
What did we have before a government?Dictators kings and queens evil people who just said hey im the boss now do as I say or die.
Its exactly the same today except they need to use different tactics because people get bored and tired of the same thing and see through it.
Once this DCS collapses they will implement another.And so on so on.
Until people realize they DO NOT NEED a control system.
As they once thousands of years ago didn't need.
Then they will just keep making them, enslaving the world.
Have you ever heard the words "money is the root of all evil"??
Well its not quite like that, the root of all evil invented money.
So in some way money, is just one of the tools of evil.

It is a common saying that “money is the root of all evil.” According to the Random House Dictionary of Proverbs and Sayings, the phrase first appeared in English circa 1000 A.D. The saying originated in the New Testament. “For the love of money is the root of all evil.” Timothy, 6:10.

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:16 PM
reply to post by zysin5


The Bush family and the Clintons have shown and told us there for a New World Order.

People laughed and made excuses when Bush 41 talked about a New World Order years ago. I consider myself a conspiracy theorist. This doesn't mean I believe every conspiracy but I'm not willing to dismiss them on the grounds that these people are not that bad or they don't have these evil intentions because they do.

I often said that they will destroy America because you can't have a super power if your trying to build a New World Order. They want one super power in this instance and that's one universal government body like the U.N. controlling the nations of the earth.

Bush has done exactly what they wanted him to do with the efficiency of a terminator. People think he's dumb but he's not.

America has to become just another country and not a super power in order to be contolled by this one governmental body.

So the North American Union is probably next along with a new currency.

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:23 PM
reply to post by Wise Dome

Thanks Wise dome! You just connected the dots for me!!

I had totally forgotten about the plans to put in place the NOrth American Union!!! It was just out of my mind until you said that!!
Hmmm.. So its their plan all along to put this bill up to be shot down.

And then they can turn around and say.. Well you the people of the USA didnt want to bail us out.. Thus The dollar has dropped and the USA is no longer.. They will put in place the North American Union, and replace our dollar with the Amero?
Thus putting the final steps of the NWO into real action!
And yes the New world order is a real thing! And has been an old idea! From every general and every leader since we picked up a spear and took someone elses land and claimed it for our own.
They have always wanted to rule the world.. And now it looks like they are well upon their way.. The freakin North American Union..
And everyone told me I was crazy to ever think that The North American union would ever even come close to happening.. Well here it is.. Very close... And I didnt see it until you posted that and helped me remember.
I love this place

Is this where this thought pattern is leading us?

I have just been so stressed out, and focusing so much on this bill, that I missed the bigger picture. Again thanks for helping me focus and connecting the dots together.. wow.. I cant belive that slipped my mind.

[edit on 27-9-2008 by zysin5]

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:33 PM
reply to post by Wise Dome

It's neither loans, nor "big government". It's the fatcat GOP donors wanting to loot the treasury while Republicans, their allies in this, still have something resembling power in Washington. It's not a bailout, it's them cashing their chips.

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 09:50 PM
It is NOT Big Government

It's not Republicans. It's not Democrats

It IS Big Banking

the rest are just tools

Wake Up And Smell Their Cr@p Hit The Fan

[edit on 9-27-08 by tsEnigma]

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:16 PM
reply to post by tsEnigma

Yes, it's big government.

I agree the bankers agree with what the crooks in Washington are doing.

When you have a debt at 9 triliion dollars and a GDP of 13 trillion dollars means are debt is close to 70% of out GDP. WHY?

How is this possible?

It's because Bush and the Congress borrowed and spend like crazy. This means nothing was being paid for and everything was being charged to the credit cards of our kids and grandkids future.

Bush borrowed more money in his first 4 years then all of the Presidents combined. Why? Bush should come on TV and tell us why he had to borrow and spend so much money.

It's common sense. If you buy a bunch of things on a credit card and then you spend through your savings, your assets and debt will get closer and closer and that means trouble.

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 28 Sep 2008 at 04:07:21 AM GMT is:


The estimated population of the United States is 304,807,837
so each citizen's share of this debt is $32,330.13.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$2.32 billion per day since September 28, 2007!

Bush came into office with a projected surplus.

So it's not bad loans it's bad government. I can see a 2 or 3 trillion dollar debt and that's even to much but a 9 trillion dollar debt in 8 years?

Bush couldn't find his Veto pen. He had 12 Vetos and Reagan had 78. You have to go back to Warren Harding to find a President that gave out less vetos.

The way they are taking this country down is BIG government not bad loans. They are using the loans as a diversion.

If you heard Bush, he talked about giving out loans to people who couldn't afford them. Theycouldn't afford them when gas prices started going up due to horrible energy policy and the government kept borrowing and spending.

Don't let them hide their irresponsible behaviour behind bad loans and poor people.

posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:42 PM
The culprit is big government and 9 trillion dollars of debt.

Wall Street greed has always been there. This is just a diversion and an excuse to make government bigger.

The democrats and Bush are tied at the hip because Bush loves big government.

Why conservatives and republicans keep supporting this guy makes no sense to me.

He gave out 12 vetoes campared to Reagans 78 and Clintons 37. He borrowed more money from foreign countries than 42 Presidents before him combined.

We should not be in this mess with a 13 trillion dollar GDP.

It's the massive borrowing and spending in Washington.

Ron Paul has talked about this for years. You can't keep borrowing money and growing government.


posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:55 PM
As is almost always the case nothing is black-and-white. Although lots of people feel a whole lot more comfortable with simple answers to complex problems. If only it was that simple.

IMO, it's a combination of the government (once again) not doing what it has been charged to do (provide regulation and oversight); government removing laws under pressure of certain industries so that those industries could make more money but at the expense of the safeguards they provided for you and me; government being more focused on empire-building than taking care of business at home; government spending more than wer can afford (largely on three wars); the banking industry skirting the rules and committing outright fraud which put the credit market at-risk.

This was a cluster fluke of biblical proportion but not any one entity's fault.

posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 03:04 PM
reply to post by jtma508

It's one entity's fault, GOVERNMENT.

If we were not 9 trillion dolars in the hole we could cover these downturns much better.

With a 13 trillion dollar GDP there's no reason we should be in this mess.

How in the world did Bush and Congress spend 9 trillion dollars? Why did Bush borrow more money from foreign governments than 42 Presidents combined?

Surprise, Wall Street is greedy. The Congress and Bush want to blame Wall Street and poor people not paying their bills but they will not blame themselves and there irresponsible spending.

posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 10:47 AM
The government is a BEHEMOTH.

It's sad to see everyone in Congress and Bush blaming everyone but themselves.

We are now over 10 trillion dollars in the hole. 10 TRILLION DOLLARS!!

This is the problem. Not just Wall Street Greed or poor people not paying their bills.

In 8 short years, Bush and the Congress have us over 10 trillion dollars in the hole, America is bankrupt. With a 13 trillion dollar economy.

Bush borrowed more money in 4 years then 42 Presidents before him combined and gave out 12 Vetoes!!

This means our government borrowed and spent and nothing was paid for. They borrowed against our future and our childrens future.

How did they spend 10 trillion dollars in 8 short years?

This is the question Bush and the Congress should answer.

In a global economy we have to become more efficient. This means more entrepreneurs and people switching to service related jobs as production moves overseas.

This means Government should have been reduced, instead it has grown into a behemoth.

People need to realize that the bigger government gets the more control it will want over our lives in order to protect itself. We will become the enemy if we stand in the way of Big Government.

I'm sorry to say, I think we have crossed the rubicon so to speak. America will be a socialist/communist country because the people have let the kids control the candy store without any supervision and now everyone is sick.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Wise Dome]

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