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What shotgun rounds do you recommend for home defense?

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posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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Personally after shooting a good variety of shotguns in various gauges I went to a 20 gauge mossberg "defender" (pistol grip short barrel extended tube aftermarket) and the first 3 shots in it are standard bird shot. After that you get down to "Rhodesian Jungle" type hand loads. But I keep the first 3 as birdshot because I KNOW I can have all 3 of those rounds traveling towards and intersecting with whoever is threatening me as fast as I can pump the action.
Whenever an individual is considering things like ammunition choice and weapon choice they will inevitably come to as many conclusions if not more than there are people talking about it. THe trick is to pick a weapon and ammo combination that YOU are utterly confident you can engage with effectivelly in a timely manner. This is why I stepped down to a 20 gauge... quite frankly I weigh 130 pounds and while I can fire a 12 gauge with only a pistol grip effectivelly I don't like to. I also noticed a substantial difference in time between shots when firing the 12 gauge. This lead me to choose a weapon that gives 2/3 the power for Half the recoil.




posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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I carried a Winchester Model 12 that had been cut down and was stockless in Viet Nam. In heavy jungle, there is little as lethal as double-ought buckshot. Across a living room, there is little as lethal as 00Buckshot.

If you have a family, you don't want to be blowing holes through two or three walls, and if only one single buckshot gets through to where your child is sleeping, you can kill them.

In my home, beside my bed I keep a Model 1911 with laser sights, and a pump shotgun with #6 shot. #8 shot isn't bad either for using inside a dwelling.

Try this: Take measurements of the likely distances within you home you'll be using the weapon. Write them down, and take your weapon with a few different loads to a range. The vast majority of encounters are less than 15 feet. Put your target at 15 feet, and say 10 feet. Note the shot pattern.

Anything less than ten to fifteen feet is almost a "loose slug." The perp would thus absorb all that energy, rather than having a significant portion pass right through them.

If you really want to be accurate in a scary situation, then a simple laser sight, grip activated, enables you to be dead on target without aiming.
I can assure you that in some of these moments, many supposed experts have missed their targets at distances as short as six feet. Unbelievable, but true.

One last thing. You don't aim for the head or face. You don't aim to wound. You don't aim for the center of mass. Aim for the pelvic area. Lots of bone, which transmits to the nervous system the shock of the rather significant impact. Another reason is that there are very vulnerable components contained within the pelvic area.

And third, if the intruder hits you in daytime or when the lights are on, and he sees you aiming a shotgun directly at his doo-dads, 999 out of 1,000 will immediately unass the area. It's a man thing.

Test these rounds loaded with different shot at these close distances for yourself with your own weapon. You'll then absolutely know within your own residence, exactly what your shot spread will be, and you'll feel confident of your expectation.

One last thing, and I know I'll likely catch a lot of crap.

Anything worth killing is worth killing twice. Dead is good, but deader is better. And in such a manner, there's only one side going to be told.

Good luck, and I hope you never, ever, have to use deadly force. It never sits real well on your appetite the next day. But at least you have one.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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THat is why I've got the bird shot backed up with much more stout rhodesian Jungle rounds.... If you open fire on someone even in defense you are committed to Killing them or facing a life of poverty. It's a sad state of affairs that makes your first need to consider whether you are capable of administering lethal force before you keep a weapon that could be used against you if you hesitate.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:08 PM
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My Mossberg 500 tactical. stays loaded with 00 Buck shot .

My Compact Cruiser stays loaded with high velocity turkey load.

Turkey load and Buck shot have about the same recoil, the only difference is the size and amount of pellets. Turkey load is a more balanced load, it has a large amount of pellets like bird shot, but its has triple the power or more of bird shot.

00 Buck contains about 9 pellets per load depending on what you buy, but the pellets are 3 or four times the size of turkey load.

of course you have your Slug, which is guaranteed to stop anyone dead in there tracks.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Living in an apartment my primary concern is overpenetration... the walls are quite thin.

This makes your suggestion of turkey loads even better. Thank you... I don't hunt birds with my shotgun. short barrels and pistol grips are frowned upon for hunting.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by PaddyInf
...The attacker will sue the living hell out of you and make your life agony for the forseeable future. ...


Gotta tell you, if it comes down to having to shoot someone in my house because they broke in, invaded, whatever, the police WON'T be getting his side of the story. I guarantee you that.

You see, the only way I KNOW he ceases to be a threat is keep shooting until he quits moving.



They'll get his side of the story if you try loading with pepper-spray-coated #22 shot as advocated in the post I was replying to. In the (unlikely) situation that he doesn't survive the experience, his family will, and they'll get a lovely pay-out once it's been established that their loved one was shot with a round designed specifically to cause maximum suffering.

Too many people on here are failing to think through their choices. Time does not stop after an incident. You will have to deal with the consequences or your actions. Choose a load that will do the job and you can justify in court. 00 will do (if a bit over powered for modern housing). #4 would be my choice as it penetrates enough to kill efficiently but won't push through too much dry wall etc. I could happily justify either of these loads as they are commercially available and design tested. They are not designed to cause unnecessary pain or suffering (which is completely unlawful). Going out of your way to make a cartridge that WILL cause such pain and suffering WILL put you on a pre-meditated assault charge as well as a few others depending on the legal team.

Shooting someone can only be justified in self defence. Making someone go into septic shock several days after the event hardly fits the bill, does it?



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 05:04 AM
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I hear what you all have said and I have chosen my initial defense loads 4 buckshot followed up by 00 Buckshot.


---

Now what do you think of these two rounds to keep on hand if the zombie hoards start to roam?

Centurian - Multi-defense Buckshot Shells
www.sportsmansguide.com...


100rds - 12 Gauge Rio Armored Slug
ammunitiontogo.com...



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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For killin use winchester number 7 BIG BRASS
For maiming pack your own load with rock salt.(both 12 bore)
but i do rabbits,pheasant,duck,and compete in clay and skeet matches
thats where the winchester big brass come in,they never fail.
I own a miroku for trap / skeet and a trusty AYA for game.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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[edit on 28-9-2008 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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[edit on 28-9-2008 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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Easy Single slug ....It's like shooting off a 50 cal round and you can hit your target even if they are behind walls.

However use a slow burn powder and low grain count you want knock down not pass thru to kill target.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Reading all of these post by people that have considerable knowledge of firearms and ammunition, makes me wonder, how many of them have actually shot another person, or would be able too. It is better than being killed, but not by a whole lot. It isn't something done with enthusiasm, or joy.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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It is not a matter of enjoying shooting someone. It is a matter of preserving your life when threatened. It doesn't matter if you use a shotgun or machete.

I can only speak for myself. There is relief that you survived, and then as I said earlier, it doesn't exactly sit well on your supper.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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Years ago had an AD with my Mossberg 500 while unloading it - was loaded with #4 birdshot. Blow hole about size of fist across room , but
didn't penetrate through second layer of sheetrock. Patched up hole
with plaster and painted over....



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by In nothing we trust
 


Any load in a shotgun will do wonders at close range. In an apartment or row house, buckshot and slugs are bad ideas. If you smoke the villain and a stray also wounds your neighbor, you are in the crapper, legally. Really small or big shot should be avoided. Buck works well in jungle wars and close quarters but for your application Number 4 or BB will shred flesh and penetrate far enough to repel invaders. If you are under assault and fire at short range, it is, as Dooper said, like a loose slug. Total energy transfer and maximum tissue damage. Not enough stuff left to repair if he fell onto an operating table and a likely bleed out before you can call the local gendarmes. BTW, you won't be hearing much for a while so you'll have to get someone else to phone the cops or just dial 911 and walk away. Those of you that have fired any size gun in a closed space will understand this.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by pteridine
BTW, you won't be hearing much for a while so you'll have to get someone else to phone the cops or just dial 911 and walk away. Those of you that have fired any size gun in a closed space will understand this.


So flash bang rounds would be a bad idea for home defense then?




12 Gauge Flash Bang Ammo

It produces a 182dB bang, 1.5 to 2 million candlea flash and pressures over 1.5 to 2 atmospheric pressure units.

ammunitiontogo.com...



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by In nothing we trust
 


I'd just move somewhere where you're not going to get armed nutters breaking in to your house. Where do you live? Baghdad?



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by hypervigilant
 


Beelzabub looks around the corner and chuckles "I DON"T MAN.....BUT MAYBE or MAYBE NOT" if I tell you I might have to shoot you, it's classified man.....HE HE LOL



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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OOO Buck. The only way to roll at home.
Put them in a Remington 870 MCS



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Lots of good advice here, just want to add a few details,

00 buck is 9 pellets, .32 caliber traveling at about 1300 fps (velocity), that's about the same as shooting a hot .32 cal pistol 9 times. It will penetrate at least 2 layers of sheetrock, so be careful with that. Good at longer ranges up to 75 yrds. The spread from a 24 inch barrel is 1 inch of spread for every yard of travel. 20 yards = 20 inch spread pattern.

Bird shot, 6 and above, should not penetrate the same 2 layers of sheetrock, but does have some limitations of human penetrations but if you're within a few yrds of a perpetrator, it will be devastating and will maintain its energy transfer just fine. Very little energy at 30 yrds and above.

Turkey loads 4 / 5 are a great short range, high energy transfer round for home defense, but anything over 40 yards, forget it. You can get the magnum rounds and will extend the range.

Slugs are incredible energy transfer out to 200 yrds. I have seen shooters hit 6 inch plates at 100 yrds accurately. Indoors, they WILL penetrate many layers of sheetrock, so home defense with others around, forget it.

Skeet/Trap rounds are equivelant to a 7 / 8 shoot bird round, but loaded lighter (less recoil). They're not meant to travel very far. Not a bad desperation round for a non-shotgun shooter, and great for practice. No real home defense usefulness.

The biggest piece of advice, DO NOT LOAD YOUR OWN FOR ANY DEFENSE SITUATION, you WILL be prosecuted and found guilty, period. The lawyers WILL and in MANY CASES HAVE painted the shooter as intentionally "loading" the round to kill / maim his poor misunderstood client. So please, do not modify your gun or load your own rounds for any defensive situation. In a SHTF situation, go for it, but in the legal system, I can't say it strongly enough, please don't.

Point of interest, a 12 gauge, any round, will not penetrate a bullet resistant vest.

Hope this helps




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