U.S. is more Communist than China: Jim Rogers

What is with all these misconceptions to what Communism is?

The USA is more corrupt than a country that doesn't allow elections?

We're talking about Communism... not corruption, corruption can be found in any system.

We now don't allow bibles to enter the country? We now torture Catholics who refuse to denounce their beliefs? We now force a one-child-per-family policy and we force women to have abortions and to kill their children (in the womb AND newborn) when they go over their one child limit??? We now do not allow free speech on the internet and we don't allow internet access?

Ungh... We're talking about Communism... not a parties decision to enforce religious scrutiny, population control, or freedoms... these are all matters that can exist in ALL systems.

Sadly most americans dont know the difference between socialism, communism, authoritarianism, and anarchism and use these terms interchangeably

No kidding...


Let's get this straight before the conversation gets derailed.

The man said COMMUNISM.
So... Education time.

Communism;
Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general.

Basically, communism comes about when the government owns the companies, or when the profits of the companies are divided upon the people regardless of pay grade.

The US government now OWNS these two companies, two of the biggest financial giants in the US.
Government ownership of companies is a Communist tactic.

... which is one of the reasons so many people say China isn't a real Communist country.

This thread reminded me about what I listened to a couple days ago...

I live with two people who left the Czech Republic. They had lived and grew up there during the communist rule. Another Czech immigrant, who she did not know before the conversation and had also lived through communist rule, was talking with one of them about the state of things in America right now, and they both firmly agreed that America is far worse right now than it was in communist Czechoslovakia, both economically and rights-wise.

[edit on 9/8/2008 by iceofspades]

I started to talk about this in a thread the other day, but no takers. 95% of Americans don't really know what communism is, they just know it's something they don't like. China calls itself communist (I guess), but of course they aren't. They have become cutting-edge, balls-out capitalists, but with an athoritarian government. If China were actually communist, there would be no private companies and no millionaires/billionaires. Think 1965 Maoist China - that was communist. Communism is an economic theory, and if you have a repressive, authoritarian government and open capital markets, it is not communist! I suspect that every western democracy there is owns some stake in some corporation somewhere. Most of Western Europe through the 1990s had government-owned corporations, but they also were mostly capitalist.

Ignorant people can scream "COMMIE" all they want, but it doesn't make it true.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


What Crap! Fannie May/Freddie Mac were originally government controlled entities to insure funding was available for mortgages. Pres. Johnson wanted them off the budget so allowed them to take on investors and make a profit, while still controlled by government rules. Today, they just bought shares of the companys to get them cash. The government security is that they now own a portion of the real estate under a full default.

Forget the direct direct comparison to China, they have an experiment in capitalism going on with communistic government controls in place. They use arcane laws for control over the people only in political matters.

If a person wanted to look at the basis of communism and research a little bit, look at the Communist Manifesto. The average person may be surprised at what we have. Spin can be put on anything, and this site is absolutely living proof of that, but it doesn't take any spin at all for a good part of the manifesto and apply it directly to the US Government or economic system.

reply to post by FlyersFan


It says Communist, not fascist.

Valid points overall, though.

I must say, I was very hesitant towards China coming up to the Olympics, but many of my fears were eased. I was especially pleased that the US got such a large cheer from the crowd. Meanwhile, Iran received faint cheers, but mostly boos.

It seems that the only thing that all the CEOs are learning at all the big ivy league business schools these days is how to become first class white collar criminals.

[edit on 8-9-2008 by En4cer]

DD gets tons of post replies and points because he/she posts incendiary accusations coupled with an expression of personalized disgust at his/her own post(s). However DD rarely defines what he/she means by whatever qualifier he/she is using for each respective post. So, therefore: DD declares America more Communist than China, shows a populist disgust, fails to even attempt to define his/her own accusation except with whatever is making headlines this hour; i.e Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Yeayea, spare your fingers people I'm obviously a government plant or just one of the countless unawakened sheeple of the world. Either way, you're not going to believe me when I say USA is a better place to live than China.

LMAO!Whatever!Wait tin foil hat time!I know quite a few americans across the U.S and they would have something to say about your title.As a matter of fact i just spoke to a few american friends in the Midwest via voice so im sure they would have mentioned something like this.

Im well aware of communism.It didnt work for Russia or China.So over 1 billion people says it sucks.It only works in theory not practice.Just so you all know Putins rise to power in Russia was because of the ULTRA LEFTIST LIBERALS in russia supporting him.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Justice11]

I NEVER EVER EVER thought I'd do this: Starred and Flagged DimensionalDetective!

I don't agree with your views 99.99% of the time, but you nailed it with this thread. This bail out IS a big move towards Socialism. (Please note, I do NOT think we are "more Communist than China" yet though...)

We should be letting Capitalism do its work. If we keep bailing out corporations like this, what is there to make them act fiscally responsible? As a consumer, I don't see the Government paying off my credit card debt because its "maxed out"!


[edit on 9-9-2008 by CreeWolf]

Why are some of you comparing China's laws, actions and human rights violations to communism/socialism?
They aren't one and the same.

Blame China's approach to communism, not communism.
What's been mentioned in here as a rebuttal are not in the definition.

- Lee

It is interesting that China and the U.S. are virtually connected at the hip economically.

It is also interesting that several American products help the Chinese keep tabs on their people.

It is also interesting to know that if Fannie and Freddie collapsed, the entire Chinese economy would have gone under.

I don't know if the U.S. is becoming communist but it sure is becoming a plutocracy where rich investors can win in good times and pass off their losses to the tax-payers in bad times.

The US is a super cult of extremist capitalism. It is every much a slave society as was the Soviet Union which the CIA always labeled a "slave society". The internet is probably the single greatest tool of propaganda, misinformation, and disinformation that the "State" could have ever hoped for. My advice, and I don't take my own, is to keep a low profile. The Net is a trap that indentifies every "dissident" that the State probably would not have found if not for the "information superhighway" into your mind.

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I think Mr. Rogers was economically speaking. For me, it raises very concerning red flags. Think of it this way, people's social interactions or their norms and choices cannot be controlled directly by the State. In order for the STATE to have a lasting and meaningful change according to them, is by influence of the economy. Once this is accomplished, it is far easier to alter people's choices since these choices are removed or arbitrary incentives are placed by the state to guide people on what they should do.

This is what every state has done, particularly socialist/or fascist states, what I think concerns Mr. Rogers and myself for that matter is the U.S. government now will have direct control of the entire housing industry, they can now in affect decide who will purchase homes and at what rate. This is blatant "Socialism" or technically Fascism...


[edit on 8-9-2008 by Gateway]

who they can sell them off to china, and we can all learn chinese so we are able to read our foreclosure notices. I don't think what has, and is going down in the housing market has as much to do with socialism/communism/capitalism and it has it has to do with just plain outright criminal activity within our government, within our business sector, and us on an individual basis also.

this was a premeditated scam!

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'm sure someone's called you on this by now, but none of the things you referenced is especially communist.

I think Americans should finally come to the realization they don't pay less individual taxes than most Europeans actually there are lot of Europeans who pay less taxes. Paying taxes isn't all that bad but there is one big difference Europeans get something back from there government like good health care, my University education only costs me like 1600 euros a year.
But the middle class American struggles to get their kids into college. I don't know what to call the American system it's like the government stealing money and giving nothing back.
America worked great when they paid less taxes but if Europeans in socialist Europe pay less taxes than American's then something is very wrong!
You should finally stand up to your government and say drop the damn taxes or ask something in return!

Alot of people fail to understand why politicians who claim that they are conservative end up being like there liberal counterparts You see, like any Bureaucracy it grows and grows.
Now back in 94, When the Republicans took over. The average person who support the Republicans figured that for once we government would become less and less. Government would go back the way it was before the Great Depression. Well what happen guys? virtually the only thing that change was the wasteful spending on one project to other projects.
It is my opinion once these people got into power, they realize that if Welfare or other government spending were to go away, that the economy and every day America would not be able to handle the effect. Also many low income and social Security recipients would be out on the streets. Many Social Security that are under 65 are either disabled or physically. Imagine a guy who has multiple personality disorder or other crazy guy who gets SS check in the mail and the next day, he doesn't have that income.
It is one thing to campaign to get ride of Welfare, its another thing to actually do it. After this realization hit the new republicans, they realize that they couldn't get rid of the over amount of spending. But being as they are, they realized that certain reforms were definitely needed, but the absolute elimination of a welfare state was virtually impossible. And will become more impossible as the welfare state starts to include Healthcare.
Universal Healthcare is a virtually coming to the US whether we want it or not. Every other Industrial country eventually get Universal Healthcare. After watching a Frontline on the Universal Health care subject and watching what happens with the 2006 elections made me realize it. The Welfare state is just another fact of life like Taxes and Grey hair. Even China will eventually adopt a Welfare state as will India and other developing countries that want.
Its only a natural for even the most right wing republican or Libertarian to eventually become less and less right wing. As an advocate of the Constitution, I can only hope that a good management is keeping the bureaucracy at bay from becoming a tsunami