We Must Respect Skeptics

Ok people, Im seeing alott of skeptic bashing on the boards and its really sickning. Us Belivers need skeptics to question us, We need skeptics to debunk us, We need skeptics to stop us every step off the way and make us explain EVERYTHING (not sarcasim)

Because without skeptics , We would not have any perverbail "law & order" in the ufology society. If there were no skeptics the craziest outlandish things would be lapped up by the masses and no one would be there to question it. We need skeptics just like every nation needs somone to stand up against the goverment and ask "why, what ,where and how"
They have every right to ask for evidence
No, This does not mean all skeptics are good, Every So often you may come across the typical nihilist skeptic who will not take any peice of evidence. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE SKEPTIC COMUNITY, just like we have idoits who spout BS about annuki or whatever, they have idoits who will simply not take the time to read and look at what you present to them, In that case my freinds - Just ignore them and try and make somone who does want to listen belive
Skeptics are a ying to our yang , Without them we would crumble into a bunch of idoits and without us ..well...they would have to go and annoy bigfoot belivers
So people next time you see a skeptic, Dont get angry-Try and make them
belive
And Skeptics the next time you see a Ufo/Aleins beliver try not to get angry-Try and disprove them
Peace

Originally posted by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE

No, This does not mean all skeptics are good, Every So often you may come across the typical nihilist skeptic who will not take any peice of evidence. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE SKEPTIC COMUNITY, just like we have idoits who spout BS about annuki or whatever, they have idoits who will simply not take the time to read and look at what you present to them, In that case my freinds - Just ignore them and try and make somone who does want to listen belive
Skeptics are a ying to our yang , Without them we would crumble into a bunch of idoits and without us.....

I am not a skeptic, and I certainly do not believe as single thing about UFOs, I've looked at a few films but no mustard for me. I do not want to be called skeptic because I would not want to extend any credibility to UFO experiencers. There may be life on other planets, but it has not hit us. Opinion maybe, but I think that UFO believers open themselves to ridicule, if not by 'legit' films I have not seen, then by garbage pertaining to be science that I have seen.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by redled]

Originally posted by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE
Ok people, Im seeing alott of skeptic bashing on the boards and its really sickning. Us Belivers need skeptics to question us, We need skeptics to debunk us, We need skeptics to stop us every step off the way and make us explain EVERYTHING (not sarcasim)

Because without skeptics , We would not have any perverbail "law & order" in the ufology society. If there were no skeptics the craziest outlandish things would be lapped up by the masses and no one would be there to question it. We need skeptics just like every nation needs somone to stand up against the goverment and ask "why, what ,where and how"
They have every right to ask for evidence
No, This does not mean all skeptics are good, Every So often you may come across the typical nihilist skeptic who will not take any peice of evidence. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE SKEPTIC COMUNITY, just like we have idoits who spout BS about annuki or whatever, they have idoits who will simply not take the time to read and look at what you present to them, In that case my freinds - Just ignore them and try and make somone who does want to listen belive
Skeptics are a ying to our yang , Without them we would crumble into a bunch of idoits and without us ..well...they would have to go and annoy bigfoot belivers

So people next time you see a skeptic, Dont get angry-Try and make them
belive
And Skeptics the next time you see a Ufo/Aleins beliver try not to get angry-Try and disprove them
Peace

yes, we do need skeptics, i agree; but a true practioner of skeptical inquiry will closely examine both sides of an issue from all angles with out bias or pre-conceived prejudice before drawing a conclusion quietly,calmly, and rationally without resorting to name-calling or demeaning insults or sleights; but that does not seem to fit in most's paradigm,including yours,sir.


seeker

Originally posted by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE
Every So often you may come across the typical nihilist skeptic who will not take any peice of evidence. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE SKEPTIC COMUNITY,

Well so far the only skeptic I have seen on ATS that meets your ideal is ArMaP... He works hard to counter present actual evidence and documents work to present the skeptic side of the argument. JRA is good, Essan has his moments

But the majority that I have encountered generally sooner or later resort to name calling when they are frustrated that they are not getting through to the idiots....

And when they find something they cannot debunk... they just quietly slink out of the room so as not to draw attention to it... which actually works... because if there is no argument the thread sinks to the bottom

I love the way 'skeptics' in general always use the term "Deny Ignorance" but completely forget that they may indeed be the ones that don't have all the facts... The other good one is the "Defenders" Even see it in their names... Seems they are on a mission to protect the world from the 'loonies' and are so sure of themselves they won't even look at evidence when presnted

just like we have idoits who spout BS about annuki or whatever, they have idoits who will simply not take the time to read and look at what you present to them, In that case my freinds - Just ignore them and try and make somone who does want to listen belive

Well now that statement tells me which category you fall under Why are the 'idiots' because they believe differently that you do? And why do you feel the need to 'MAKE" anyone belief your viewpoint, no matter what side you are on?

Originally posted by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE
Lear was a BS talking old fool who expects people to belive him because of the status he has a pilot
Good riddance

See this is what I mean..... its THIS kind of utter crap that gives skeptics a bad name...

This is a PERSONAL attack... against someone you have never met.

Good Riddance? Well his posts were fun and a hell of a lot more interesting than garbage like the quote above...

Unfortunately I see more and more of this in every thread. And since active posters like myself present interesting topics for discussion do so without pay, the only reward is the enjoyment. When a thread gets dominated by posts such as yours the enjoyment disappears rapidly...

After that the value gained from doing the work also vanishes...

In the end you will have a bunch like you patting each other on the back and gloating how you won another argument...

Congrats... keep up the good work PROMOTING IGNORANCE

i am a SKEPTIC i am proud to be.
Being a skeptic means no to accept all of your crazy/ignorant/bibblic theories about aliens,as there is no real evidence of their existance.
And i dont "belive" as it's not a religion ,i need no faith i need REAL proof ,TOUCHABLE evidence that the ufo's are of extraterrestrial origin, i need to see it with my own eyes,i need to touch IT.

Originally posted by umbracode
i am a SKEPTIC i am proud to be.
Being a skeptic means no to accept all of your crazy/ignorant/bibblic theories about aliens,as there is no real evidence of their existance.
And i dont "belive" as it's not a religion ,i need no faith i need REAL proof ,TOUCHABLE evidence that the ufo's are of extraterrestrial origin, i need to see it with my own eyes,i need to touch IT.

Well unfortunately you don't get to touch everything on the planet and you dont get to know everything either. You reality is based on what little information is given to you.

If the government came out with full disclosure one day: what your saying is that you wouldn't believe them unless you had some sort of evidence and could personally touch a UFO for yourself and even then, how can you prove it is exterestrial? You'd have to base that on faith wouldn't you? Thats not skepticism, thats brainwashing.

I noticed that you didn't give any consideration to the way you put your argument. Calling the community "crazy/ignorant/bibblic" is a bit shortsighted and arrogant.

You are no different to the other 90% of Armchair Skeptics as you use the same argument given to you, to regurgetate as your own "evidence" for there NOT being Exterestrial intelligence, just by the fact that you don't have a giant UFO/Alien in your garage.

Personally I don't know if every single person who has ever come out and said that there is such thing as UFOs/Aliens are liars. I'm not sure if there are that many people who would willing throw away their career for a prank (Airline pilots, Policemen, etc etc). Howvever, you literally dismiss them and everyone else as liars from your armchair, even though you have never met them.

You said in a previous post that DNA is far too complex to have evolved on Earth. Isn't that a contradiction? Doesn't that mean that the same DNA could have fallen somewhere else?

Your kind of proof is impossible to provide, and is extremely closed minded. It just proves that you are just doing as your told. Its harder to accept the POSSIBILITY than to completely refuse to even consider the idea.

[edit on 8-9-2008 by dodgygeeza]

I'm not a "skeptic" at heart, I have never been so. And yet, oddly enough, since coming here, I am finding I am a skeptic more than not. This actually bothers me. I was expecting to come here full of support and awesome chatter about things I found fantastic and unbelievable by the regular Joe Public. But I was rather astounded by the number of things considered "truth" by members of this board. My common sense among other things kick in, and I have to post, to say something along the effects of "omg.. you believe this?!"

I believe in all sorts of fantastical things, but I can't bring myself to believe a good bit of what is proported on these boards. I am a bit shocked honestly. So I guess I am now a skeptic? I don't consider myself one really, but I guess if you oppose anything on these boards, you are ruled, by default, a "skeptic." ugh.

reply to post by dodgygeeza


You absolutelly misunderstood what i was trying to say, and i'll try to better explain you.
Frst of all i've never stated that the UFO phenomena is NOT REAL,pls quote to me where i wrote it, i am well aware that there's something going on up there,but the unexplained is only 5% and if it is unxeplained that doesnt mean it is EXTRATERRESTRIAL.You see ,the difference between people like me and you is very simple: as we dont know what ufo's are you automatically you reconduct the whole phenomen to ALIENS,while the skeptics leave open all the possibilities not just one as you do.
Secondly ufology is very big business,business which is based on nothing.
Ufology is not a SCIENCE and not because of any Conspirancy but becuase it does not use scientific inquiry into the subject, EXCPET VERY FEW.
Let me tell what happened few years ago with a friend of mine:he called me talling there were ufo's over a hill 20 kms far away from his home and that these "alien space ships" were responding to his flash-lamp.The day after i went at this home to see myself what was going on but what he thougt to be Intelligent alien space ships were just CAr's lights but this friend of mine felt offended because i did not believe what he was seeing.Those lights were just cars moving on the hill and in fact we could see these light every day.

Originally posted by umbracode
reply to post by dodgygeeza

 

Secondly ufology is very big business,business which is based on nothing.

Debunking UFOs is almost as big a business as UFOlogy.

I think what you are trying to say is that you are skeptical of most UFO reports because most have earthly explanations but don't deny that UFOs exist.

The whole problem with this thread is that it makes the same mistake most people make when talking politics. There are no two cut and dry camps. You simply can't lump all believers into one group and you certainly can't lump all skeptics into one group.

As for my feelings about skeptics, well, if it were not for skeptics, we would still be under to Pope's rule...

reply to post by fleabit


fleabit, the manner in which you present your self has a lot to do with the reaction of others here; there is absolutely nothing wrong with being skeptical in regards to these different forums; we all have to make our own choices and decisions as to what we choose to believe and what to discount; there will always be that fanatical core on both sides of any issue that refuse to believe that they could be off the mark, and no matter how good the argument or how sound the evidence it isn't going to wash.










seeker

reply to post by zorgon


Well
1- I'm not a skeptic , I belive heavily in Aliens/Ufo's
2- Lear was an old fool , just because you have a crush on a senial old man who spouts trash 24/7 isnt my problem, I'm allowed have my view on him Just as you are


[edit on 8-9-2008 by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE]

reply to post by the seeker_713g



I am polite and considerate, and if I sometimes seem incredulous, it's because the claims are equally incredible. I don't call folks names, nor call them stupid... generally I'm pretty nice guy.

I'll certainly try to take on claims with a very open mind. I do get a tad defensive when I feel folks attempt to discredit ufology with ludicrous, sensationlist tales.

I'm quite the believer in UFOs, alien visitation, etc., believe me.

reply to post by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE


While Mr Lear has some wild theories, he has toned down some of them recently. He now states the moon has a trace atmosphere, which is different from a breathable one. Scientists have found ice on the moon, and there is evidence of a slight trace atmosphere.
I do not agree with a lot of what Mr Hoagland says, but he has some theories that do merit looking at. He also has collected a lot of data on the moon and found some puzzling things NASA has done.
I read a book where the author stated even some of the contactees out there may have a kernel of truth (a possible one time encounter), so no one should be totally dismissed off hand without all the evidence. I still believe most of the contactees are out there, but they are interesting persons.
Attacking people is a terrible idea, either from the skeptical, debunker, believer, or middle of the road people like the majority of us. Zorgon is right about this, and it diminishes any argument one may have if one personally attacks their opponent. We are not politicians and should not fall to their level.

reply to post by redled


if you havent seen the dorothy izatt films yet, then you are right by saying that you havent seen the best films on ufos yet, www.capturingthelightdvd.com is by far the best! nobody goes up againts this documentary (which captures a ufo while filming) you have to see it to believe it my friend. but if your mind isnt ready to go from "indifferent" to believer in 90 minutes flat, then i think you should stay away from it.good luck.

Originally posted by redled
I am not a skeptic, and I certainly do not believe as single thing about UFOs, I've looked at a few films but no mustard for me. I do not want to be called skeptic because I would not want to extend any credibility to UFO experiencers. There may be life on other planets, but it has not hit us. Opinion maybe, but I think that UFO believers open themselves to ridicule, if not by 'legit' films I have not seen, then by garbage pertaining to be science that I have seen.

First of all, you're assuming that all UFOs are alien. That's not true. The government tests secret aircraft. That's an explanation that has nothing to do with aliens (unless they're using alien tech)

Secondly, it's easier to find info online than watching a "few" UFO films. Films might focus on only one or a few things (which may or may not be real), while you can find information about many credible UFO events online.

It is definitely an OPINION that UFOs from other planets have never visited our Solar System. Even if all UFO reports turned out to somehow not be alien related in any way, then that still doesn't mean aliens have never been here. There could be a hundred invisible ships in our Solar System right now and we wouldn't know it. And yes, it's possible for something to be invisible. The UK is developing a sort of way to make a tank appear invisible, while some other scientists are creating an invisibility cloak.

We're not computers. There's more than just 1s and 0s. There's more than just true and false. There are unknowns. And technically, wouldn't physics say that aliens have both visited and never visited, until we find out for certain?

Anyway, yeah. Skeptics are necessary. Some people take it too far though, usually by resorting to insults of some form or just insisting that they're right even after being proven to be wrong.

[edit on 8-9-2008 by GrayFox]

[edit on 8-9-2008 by GrayFox]

Why should anyone take Skeptics seriously when they repeatedly show that they are not willing to take Believers seriously?

Silly notion...

I'm outta here