What do Masons do? Ha! Take forever opening lodge through the monotonous degrees......after a butt-numbing 30-45 minutes of verbage, just to hold meetings which would make community service seem fun....

"Has any Brother present anything to offer for the good of Masonry in this degree?............"


"Brother Senior Warden, how should Masons meet?"

Well if you are to believe the words of just one man, whom I can not even vouch for his actual membership in Freemasonry, than you'd be believing that the Inquisition represents Catholicism? That the Church is the only government and the Pope makes all the laws, and you know what I am getting at.

If an American said that all the Islams should die, does this have anything to do with what America teaches and what it stands for? Probably not...in the case of Nazism, that was so...but we all know that America doesn't really teach anything anymore and that it still stands for freedom of all in a democracy.

Same goes for Freemasonry, not once do I hear mentioned in lodge anything about religion, including plans to take over catholicism because it is forbidden to speak of religion AND politics in our meetings.

Wouldn't it be easier if you told me what "Fatima" was, I tried figuring it out, but all there is at that website is "My immaculate heart this" "my viginess that"....I find it hard to find the point when there's all this Virgin Mary told me that I saw this which was that blah ... then I get lost, usually I get lost because the thought of a Woman giving birth being "virginal" is rediculous, not because of the immaculate conception that long ago, but because she's gonna "pop her cherry" when she does give birth (disgusting to point that out...) but then the immaculate part, she had other children...odd indeed...

So...if you'd more kindly just say exactly in like 15 words, what Fatima is, and how so many saw it (because it seems more a vision of the Pope's rather than of the masses) I'd be most obliged.

Oh which brings me to the coke bottle, as I said, as long as someone believes that there is a god, it doesn't matter to us how they worship "him", it thing whatever you wish it.

So I'm not sure where you say it is an offense to god that someone worships him through or even thinks of him as a coke bottle.

Technically God is the coke bottle, I'm not one so much to say God is a "creator" of all things, as much as he is the Creation!

Think about that...the last bit, here I'll bold it for you....there's no room for satan, in existance, only good, and bad men, we freemasons like to be the good ones.

Sincerely,
no signature

From what i can grasp:


Masons re fuse to speak about specific politic or religions because for them it bring unneccessary disputes.


What they do is talk "morals", and therefore I suppose try to dig into these morals what best suit everyone.
They seem to have guides of moral conducts that don`t exactly sound evil or anything.

Masons are very influenced by cathlocism in the ackward way that they aren`t allowed to talk about sex.

Masons are dumb cos they still think they need to be secretive about their stuff when it`s centuries after the time they HAD to hide cos they could get killed.


They are secret just for traditional purposes,

but it seems to me irrelevant and to serve nothing but
a strange purpose of bringing some people together.


It`s a kid thing, almost, where people do weird stuff to ensure
their trust within each others.


Philosophically it`s really pretentious.


Catholocism is an historical fraud based on some substantial facts.

I suggest catholics to seek deeper into what reeally happened at the time. This is not a shocking statement as Jesus never really made use of the bible but insted said to people to propagate his words. (oral speech)


Thank you,


Cedric

Well I must say cedric this has been a much better post from you...it's coherent and semi-intelligent...nay I'll give you the full credit, it is intelligent, though only because it's mostly well put opinions...of which I disagree with your reasons about why Freemasons are still secretive.

Sincerely,
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mason, then let me ask you this and reply sincerely and truly.

would you regulate and promote the infiltration of the church to further the masonic agenda of joining religions?

rmember answer truly, god knows your heart nd your respect for other religions.


the problem with freemasonry is that they dont believe or respect others beliefs or god himself but want a world of all faiths and beliefs.

god is one and has one truth, if you choose to believe in all faiths you seperate from god.


this is exactly the new age plaan by the masons and the new agers and what you see happening in the news is exactly
what freemasons goals are.

they could care less that catholics have had the wounds of christ or seen miracles or have healed people, they could care less about them and want to do away with their
religion.

do you respect my belief in one god creator of heaven and earth?


Does rama coomaraswamy who hates the church respect why they believe?


freemason you seem like a good decent man aand hope to god you would not want to destroy what i hold so true as the one god whom
ive witnessed miracles of.

Non the less, when the nwo and the antichrist arrives i will die for my belief.


fatima in 15 words.

fatima was and event which mary told three kids would happen on a specific day
where 70,000 gathered and witnessed the sun spin out of orbit and come towards earth
in 1917, athiest pagans converted and all give the same account.


Funny how few know about this huge miracle in this time of media.


All the sick were cured that day, all wet clothes were instantly dried in an instant, mary told the kids aabout a message and gave them three secrets
in the message, she told them the sign to look for before ww2 to know when it was coming.

she told lucy from fatima she would live through the great chastisement, she today is 95 and still living.


yet when i bring this up people mock it with such ignorance as if they dont want to believe or are scared to embrace the lord.


im sure you can find it on search engines.

peace.

Well seems you tried to answer for me...I'd say no, and I can answer for my brethern as well, I don't know who this rooma foomapatooma guy is or whatever, but not all people who say they are masons are what they seem, look at www.freemasonry-watch.com or whatever, that place is a cesspool of lies.

And I would think that if he were really speaking out against Catholics, in a destructive way, not just questioning, that he'd be unmade a freemason.

As for Fatima, sure maybe it happend, maybe a buncha swamp gas got them high who knows....I don't concern myself with such things if I don't necissarily believe it. I won't try to disprove it...I'll just reason it out in my own head

Sincerely,
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Truth, you stated that at Fatima, the sun spun from orbit and came closer to earth.
Surely, if this had happened, everybody would have seen it !!

I told you before :There is no God ,nothing supernatural!!And if there is a Creator ,which according to probabilities is very unlikely to happen,he is much different than you think !!
Why the God should be interested in us???
We are not so clever ??
It is very 'ego' to believe that !!!
Free your mind ,there is nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok...Catholic man you sound historically naive.

You must think I`m a devil not worth to listen to but here goes...


Masonry was not always corrupted (I believe it is since a good while). There was a time when catholcism was.

A lot of people had divergent opinions on concepts of the church coming from the popes orders, and some even argued about the reliability of this "Church" system that appeared "god knows" how many years after Jesus life (which was the main focus off all these divergent beliefs anyway....they all believed in Christ).


I am certain the masons started as a will to eliminate some of these quarrels. Can you imagine a protestant and a catholic speaking together in the elyzabethean age ?? Unless they met anonymously in such a group as the masons it would have been impossible.


You could easily get killed and called an heretic at that time if you dare to speak about personal beliefs, hence,
why I think the masons started.

You are mixing notions of...

- belief in god

- religion (with a name and system of value)

- the bible (which is shared through the old testament by God, Yahveh and Allah, so YOU TELL ME you are certain YOUR "one" is the RIGHT "one" and i will find you very naive...at least the masons were clever about figuring how #ed up the whole religious situation was).



And by the way...

If you think Buddha was an evil, I`d think you had pretty weird notions of what evil can mean.

You can`t go someplace and throw dirt on the beliefs
of people, because those people have their very own fatimas to return at you. If you really really believe in god, I`d suggest you start wondering about the possibility that YOUR GOD took different forms to express himself to different people across time and earth.

Maybe the masons adressed such an hypothesis you absolutely refuse to accept.


But yet you stubborn yourself to believe that John Paul II is the equal to Jesus (because this is part of catholics beliefs), what I find so abherrantly ridiculous because
it`s so obvious this is a fraudulous manmade system that gave the reason to so many people to revolt since medieval times at the price of their life in bloodbath wars.


So yes indeed, for me when you say "god" and "catholic" you are embracing two very different concepts that you think is one. I think the Masons are saying...keep the "catholic" away from us. So noooo,
you couldn`t use the masons to help the Church (which is catholically bound).



Unfortunately, the masons are now fulfilling egoistical means that I think differ greatly from what the group originally intended. It seems to mostly serve the purpose of helping the lives of the people who enter this group. It`s part of a snob thing, where people are too concentrated on passing their times giving and receiving rituals than really do anything really productive.


And if it does function as a mafia, it`s stupid cos most members don`t even know what the movement is really doing on an international level and who they are pushing, because it`s all just about secrets and "not knowing". Most masons don`t have a clue about what their movement have been involved in. Hence deseuetude and corruption of a movement that certainly started from a good idea.


Am I harsh ? Life is.
Misinformed ? Who isn`t. that`s my point.



Cedric

Well I'm not and many others aren't misinformed when it comes to masonry...you pretty much got the ideals down right, your only problem is you think they've "changed" now.

But the Grand Lodge of England has done a good job of "unmasonizing" any other Grand Lodge//Lodge that does not follow the meaning that you describe.

Freemasonry's amazing attribute is it hasn't changed in over 400 years, though stuff had been added, masonry as it is today was pretty much set in the 1600s, and was fully organized in 1700s, while more degrees were added as different "Rites" these rites in no way influence masonry, and if they were to be "Unmasonic" they could instantaneously be ousted from Masonry, and anyone affiliated with them lose their membership.

This happend to a bunch of Shriners who were caught selling beer, everyone of them lost their membership to the masons, and therefore, to the Shriners.

Sincerely,
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when will you people learn that just because someone is a freemason it doenst mean they know what they are talking about. any freemason that is on a website, or writes a book, or makes a website for that matter doesnt mean they know the big picture of what freemasons are all about.

yo tn1 prove there is no creator and i will gladly share my knowledge of how there is or isnt one with you.

>i will gladly share my knowledge of how there is or isnt >one with you.


I don`t believe anyone has that knowledge. There is faith, I will grant you.


As I said, the scientifical response to GOD was never that god doesn`t exist.

The scientifical response, pre-Nietzche anyway,
was Agnosticism.

A big "Maybe".


Nietzche said that "god is dead", but that was merely rhetoric, a matter of picturing the collectiv unconscious.
God can never die if he never existed, hence.....

Nietzche was sort of an attempt to discredit Agnosticism (if there is doubt, then that must mean god is dying..whatever), but he failed, and on my account this is still where we are at on an "intellectual level", outside of faith.

The antagony is that faith refuses doubt, and consider it a sin. I strongly believe in doubt, on any issues (especially scientifical). I could even start by reserving doubts against Agnosticism, if that isn`t the paradox
of Nietzche. What if total faith isn`t the answer ???

But people who have faith always say they "know,
and I found out through the years that "thinking you know" and "really nowing" are quite different realities.

I don`t believe no one knows anything.
And I`m firm that if God exist, he made things
in such way the he didn`t want anyone to "know".


Cheers,

Cedric