some helpfull answers please

So hey all it's the new guy and I was hoping to get some helpful info if it's no problem. Let me state in ADVANCE I am neutral on this subject. I mean no offense to anyone. A bit of background would be in order first I believe. So i'm a self educated guy (thanks public school system!), I began reading well at 4 and was learning hieroglyphics (egyptian) at 8. I study everything around me period. That's me. My situation: A few years ago I responded to a craigslist ad for a job. Don't want to go into much detail on what kind. The boss was a masonic lodge past master and we would talk about a wide variety of esoteric subjects. At the time I was 17 and very happy to be able to engage in intelligent conversation with someone (once again thanks public school system!) Any way he was all impressed and junk about the stuff I knew and told me i'd be a natural for the fraternity. He was serious as I am not a lewis and he contacted the grand lodge of New York to ask if the rules could be bent to let me in (I was 17). I'm now over 21 and have some genuine questions and concerns as I mull over whether or not to join. Among those ?'s:
1- Is there some grand secret I absolutely can not learn unless I join? I always seek new knowledge.
2- I'm not dubya's greatest fan. I'm concerned about being amongst the peerage of such an individual.
3- They're not going to chip me or anything as a member will they?
4- I'm not religious although I do believe in God the creator of all things but more in a sense of "if gods the ocean then i'm a drop of water in it", and as I would seek all 33 degrees if I joined I'm curious as to any explanation as to who or what JahBaalOn is. I know you probably cannot say much but is that a god? A triune being like christian god consisting of yahweh baal and osiris? A philisophical concept? The ineffable name (YHVH)?
5- Can I ever truly leave if the principles of the organization are not in line with my own? I don't like military style hierarchies very much. Is it like the Mafia? If I keep shut would they just let me go about my own business?
6- Will I be moniterd more than the average citizen?
7- Do they "make" you do stuff? What if I refuse?
8- They don't engineer aspects of your life do they? Such as who you can marry and so on.
9- I'm very against racism. I assume (ass out of you and me I know) that obama is a mason. Did he have to join a price hall lodge? Do Chinese masons have to join say a tong for example? Or is every lodge open to all?
Just a few of my questions any and all input is welcome except for negative responses if I sound stupid bear with me and educate i've seen some threads get nasty on here. Thank You!- messiah

You sound a lot like I did when I first wanted to join.

I would like you to know. (honeslty) that there are no separate Gods of Masonry. It is simply a fraternity where adult men help each other grow in character. You seem like a very intelligent guy, so you would fit right in.

Dont give the conspiracy theorists much merrit. They are only afraid of what they dont understand.

If you read the thread titled "Anti Masons Please Read This "
You may find many answers to your questions from both sides of the fence
In regards to the poster above me and what he said about the many gods
In that post I mentioned above they said you have to at least believe in God
And in reading alot since they told me that .(I read from the Grand Lodges pages for this info) .It is pretty clear that it doesnt matter what God it is (Whether Buddah or Islamic or whatever or any other supposed gods ) as long as you believe your welcome in.
In my humble opinion just the fact they state you must believe in God to join up says it is a religion then of sorts(at least in my view of what teh definition of what a religion is ) And even Appak said you cannot be an athiest to join for that one simple reason mentioned above .(you have to believe in a God )
Also the more reading I did into this .There is a bible (KJV) at the altar in the Halls but the opening of the book has something to the affect that any belief in any god is welcome and your even welcome to bring your own bible or whatever to do your oath on .
Certainly I could be wrong on this because I have never been to any Masonic events etc .But according to all that I have read (from all sides) this is what I have found out.

My 2 cents


[edit on 2-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by siahchi
1- Is there some grand secret I absolutely can not learn unless I join? I always seek new knowledge.

No. It's all stuff you can find elsewhere.

2- I'm not dubya's greatest fan. I'm concerned about being amongst the peerage of such an individual.

He's not a Freemason.

3- They're not going to chip me or anything as a member will they?

Don't be ridiculous.

4- I'm not religious although I do believe in God the creator of all things but more in a sense of "if gods the ocean then i'm a drop of water in it", and as I would seek all 33 degrees if I joined I'm curious as to any explanation as to who or what JahBaalOn is. I know you probably cannot say much but is that a god? A triune being like christian god consisting of yahweh baal and osiris? A philisophical concept? The ineffable name (YHVH)?

Never heard JahBaalOn used in a Masonic lodge. It's something anti-Masons made up to scare children.

5- Can I ever truly leave if the principles of the organization are not in line with my own? I don't like military style hierarchies very much. Is it like the Mafia? If I keep shut would they just let me go about my own business?

Leave whenever you like. My lodge loses 20-30 a year. No big deal.

6- Will I be moniterd more than the average citizen?

No.

7- Do they "make" you do stuff? What if I refuse?

They don't.

8- They don't engineer aspects of your life do they? Such as who you can marry and so on.

No such interference.

9- I'm very against racism. I assume (ass out of you and me I know) that obama is a mason. Did he have to join a price hall lodge? Do Chinese masons have to join say a tong for example? Or is every lodge open to all?

Obama's not a Mason. My lodge contains a wide variety of races. Two of our elected officers are black as well as two of our appointed officers. Not a big deal.

Just so you know, a mod recently made a post in this Forum, stating that general questions about Masonry will get sent to Chit Chat on BTS, your post is sort of on the fence, so giving you a head sup.

1. Not really. Most of the information you'd learn as a Mason is available from books or the internet.
2. Bush is not a Mason, last President who was a Mason was Ford. As for people being associated with FreeMasonry, there have been some real rotten folks who've been part of the fraternity, and if that's a turn off, may as well not join. Keep in mind, FreeMasonry is made up of pople, you'll get good ons and sour apples.
3. No. The Masonic Chip program is a program where the FreeMasons and other groups provide a disc of information to parents containing general information about their child and hair samples and mouth molds that in the even the child goes missing, would help ID the child. Non of the info is kept by Masons, and it is done entirely in front of the parents.
4. The JahBaalOn is a name tossed out by Conspiracy theorists. The God of Masonry is your God. Whether you are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or any other religion, so long as you believe in one God over all, you are allowed in.
5. Yep. You can leave no harm or foul.
6. Kinda. As a Mason, your brothrs would keep an eye on you. You would represent them when you go out in public, and are supossed to live up to the values of Masonry. When a Mason does something wrong, generally Masonry gets pulled along with it, even if the person did it for no reasons associated with Masonry. Mostly, they just don't want you to embarress them, and yourself.
7. You're supposed to help your community. If you refuse, no worries. They won't make you drink blood, play pool, or dress like a chicken, anyway. Though it's possible if you're particularly gullibl and you have a prankster in your lodge...
8. No. It just encourages you to be a better person.
9. I'd like to say Masonic lodges are open to all, and they should be. However, individuals do play a part, and it's possible for racists to join a lodge. Other than that, anyone who's a guy, has a firm belief in a creator God, and has the spare time, and some spare dimes can be a Mason.
Obama's probably not a Mason, but he could have joined Prince Hall or regular Masonry. As for Prince Hall, while for awhile it was almost solely for blacks, just as regular Masonry was mainly for white folks in America, anyone who meets the above qualifications can join either one. Despite the name, and probably a few differences, PH still has a Charter and is recognized by the Grand Lodge.

Wow.. thanks for the replies! Already! Keep em comin' cause now i'm fascinated. I'm a bit suprised curious George is not a member. But then again he doesn't seem much like an intellectual type. Thanks for clearing things up a bit for me. Okay, so if I join do they inspect your house? My room is meeessy Here's another question: besides social networking and the advantages offered by knowing the influential, is there any other tangible benefit to joining (i take everything w/ a grain of salt, but i've heard of underground high speed trains-just an example) no need to be specific on this question just a yes or no. By the way I love this website. It's hard to find people interested in the same topics I am sometime. Honey I'm home

reply to post by siahchi

Not much by way of tangible benefit, most of what you gain is based on what you put into it.
As for meeting influential people, it's possible you could, but each lodge is dependent on the people of the community. So you may have some officers, local tax collector, and the guy who runs the comic shop.

As for your room, I'm pretty sure the interview it's only to access your character.

Originally posted by siahchi
Wow.. thanks for the replies! Already! Keep em comin' cause now i'm fascinated. I'm a bit suprised curious George is not a member. But then again he doesn't seem much like an intellectual type. Thanks for clearing things up a bit for me. Okay, so if I join do they inspect your house? My room is meeessy

Here's another question: besides social networking and the advantages offered by knowing the influential, is there any other tangible benefit to joining (i take everything w/ a grain of salt, but i've heard of underground high speed trains-just an example) no need to be specific on this question just a yes or no. By the way I love this website. It's hard to find people interested in the same topics I am sometime. Honey I'm home

We don't inspect your house. Typically we invite you to the lodge to meet with a few guys and tour the place.

The social networking is really lame. My lodge has two bus drivers, a locksmith and a couple of computer programmers. There is nothing to be gained by knowing these nerds!

You can be as specific as you like with your questions and all the masons (and antimasons) will be happy to answer.

None of us will be offended by any questions, but to get the two biggies out of the way:

1 - we are not pedophiles

2 - we don't worship satan/baal/abaddon/lucifer/etc/etc/etc

The best place for masonic info I have found is (coincidentally) www.masonicinfo.com

reply to post by emsed1


I am a computer nerd! While you might not be able gain anything by knowing "them" I brew my own beer. It's good. How do ya like me now?!

Josh and the others have given you the same answers I would give you. So I won't go into the same stuff. It's fun, and if you stay involved, it remains fun. It is not hard, but you can do as much or as little as you like. If you leave, that's it. No horse head in your bed, no dead fish in the newspaper. I love to meet the people and get to know the ones I would not usually know. Not for gain of any kind other than friendship. You will learn some secrets not on the internet, but they aren't the take over the world kind. More like the make you better kind.

Okay, so i'm really considering joining the fraternity. I've heard plenty about how good and evil masons are/can be. I guess to know I would have to join. So, assuming I do take the step, can anyone tell me what would get me blackballed? I really try to leave the world a better place than I found it, but I do have very unconventional views on the world around me( even by ats standards). Mind you, if I do this I will approach with a positive attitude and being who I am study fervently. I just would like to know if there are prerequisites other than belief in supreme diety that are required that are not often espoused upon that might make my application null and void . thank you all

reply to post by siahchi


About the only thing would be if a member or two knew you to be of bad character or otherwise discreditable to the community at large and Freemasonry in particular. But then, by that point, you'd have to have been proposed by a member and seconded by another and then there's a Board of Investigation (basically 3 brethren [one a Past Master of the Lodge] to meet you and get a better sense of you as a person and member of society).

It really is hard to get yourself blackballed if you're a contributing member of society.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by Fitzgibbon]

reply to post by siahchi


The main way to get blackballed would be getting charged with a felony. That said, your behavior will come into play as well. I'm sure if you tick off a good amount of people you may get blackballed.

Well I would like to thank everyone for the helpful info. I'm sure I meet the requirements, the only thing left now is to make a decision, or not. If the members of this board are any indication of the organization at large then indeed I would be in good company by joining. Everyone has been extremely helpful, lending their advice and i'm not even a brother! Once again, thanks-messiah-

Hey by the way Fitzgibbon, where does the quote in your signature come from? It's sad but true. We all need bullcrap(sorry I hope bullcrap is all right to say on here) detectors these days to separate the wheat from the chaff. Very artistically put, the author a man after my own soul!

I must be a bug, huh? Once again, I do not need any specifics, but in my research I came across this: The Royal Arch is sometimes denominated "ineffable" and "sublime" in our rituals because it concerns the nature of the Hebrew shem hameforash, or unspoken name of God. This name was regarded as so sacred that the ancient Jews would not pronounce it, but substituted the word adonai, "Lord.- so is the tetragrammaton known and relayed to members? This alone would merit joining. Also, I understand the organization is not religious, however I can't help but notice the emphasis on the old testament. Is the ritual the same the world over? Say for instance do they replace solomon with krishna in India? Please let me know when to shut up if I mis-speak or offend. Mine is a mind constantly seeking knowledge and hopefully gaining wisdom with life. I read about two large books a week at work in between my duties, so if I ask too many questions let me know. I don't want to be just the guy asking questions and never offering anything substantial to the dialogue (but that hadron collider rap was cool, wasn't it?) thanks all!

Originally posted by siahchi
Hey by the way Fitzgibbon, where does the quote in your signature come from? It's sad but true. We all need bullcrap(sorry I hope bullcrap is all right to say on here) detectors these days to separate the wheat from the chaff. Very artistically put, the author a man after my own soul!

Thank you. It isn't a quote (except for the very last line; that one's Hunter S. Thompson). It's just a bit of a screed that had its genesis during a fracas a while back with SO. It's part of the reason I find DarksDeception's assertion of a pro-Masonic bias on ATS laughable.

reply to post by siahchi


In the Blue Lodge of masonry which is the first three degrees that is not covered.

Royal Arch Masonry begins in the York Rite, which is one of the appendent bodies you can join once you become a Master Mason.

I am starting Royal Arch in a couple of weeks and I am trying not to do any digging on the degree because I want to be surprised. When I was raised to Master Mason, I had read every single thing about the degree beforehand on the stupid internet and it totally ruined the surprise for me.

If you are generally a 'good' person, believe in God and want to help others then there is absolutely NOTHING in the degrees that would go against those beliefs.

The degrees are fun and exciting and the brothers are very happy when a new candidate goes through them. There are a few surprises here and there but they are mostly silly, but fun nonetheless.

The other thing to remember is that if you get into Masonry and don't like it you can just walk away. A lot of guys are disappointed because the whole meaning of Masonry isn't just dumped in their lap and they get bored and leave.

To get the full impact of the masonic teachings it really takes years because every time you hear a lecture or watch a degree you will pick up new things that have new meanings. In the end though masonry does not force you to believe or act against your conscience, it simply provides lessons and examples that mean different things to different folks.

Some guys see profound beauty in all the geometry stuff and some guys just say "BAH! I hate math!" and see beauty in the service to the community.

It's not like church really at all. It's just a lot of fun. We are getting a lot of new folks in our lodge that really want to learn and get all they can out of it. Some of our guys didn't really like the 'ham sandwich and chocolate milk' get togethers after meetings and they have started bringing home-cooked meals.

Last night we had a couple of trays of Lasagna and it was good to see about twenty guys sitting around the table talking, laughing and playing cards. Usually everybody clears out after a business meeting because life is busy, but it's nice to pause for fellowship with your brothers.

reply to post by siahchi


Hi Siachi. I am a member of the Royal Arch, and am one year away from being in the East. I feel the Royal Arch, finishes the three degrees conferred in the Craft lodge quite nicely, and I urge anyone who hasn't completed The Holy Royal Arch Degree, to look into it. There are three steps to completing the Degree, Mark Master Mason, Most Excellent Master and finally Holy Royal Arch, where you will learn the ineffable name of God. The ritual work in these degrees is beautiful, and holds many great lessons. If you decide to become a Mason, I would recommend going through the Royal Arch, if for no other reason than it really does complete the Craft Lodge degrees. In Scotland, my father was made a Mason, and there was four degrees, the Mark Master Mason degree was conferred as part of the Craft lodge ritual, but here in Canada, you need to go on to the Royal Arch to recieve that Degree. Good luck in your quest.

Really curious about this one... I understand the organization is not religious, however I can't help but notice the emphasis on the old testament. Is the ritual the same the world over? Say for instance do they replace solomon with krishna in India? Anyone still read this thread?

Originally posted by Mason mike
reply to post by emsed1

 

I am a computer nerd! While you might not be able gain anything by knowing "them" I brew my own beer. It's good. How do ya like me now?!

I like you a LOT Mike. I admire ANY beer-maker! :-) Used to brew my own, too but haven't in a long time. Someone kept drinking it all and it turned out it was ME!

To the OP, I was much like you, I wanted to know because I'd heard good and I'd heard bad. Several people have posted good info and good links. Do you know any Masons? If so, even if you just know OF them, I'd suggest you take a look at them. What do you think of them? I think you'll find that were regular, every-day, down to earth people (some of whom make their own beer) (!)

Oh, you'll hear the crazies tell you adamantly that we're Satan-worshipers, baby-eaters, and all that rot, but if you allow yourself to be amused by such silliness, you'll be much better off.