Russia scales down Georgia toll (from 1600 to 133)

Russia scales down Georgia toll (from 1600 to 133)

news.bbc.co.uk

The figure is far lower than the 1,600 people Russia initially said had died.

Following an investigation in South Ossetia and amongst refugees who fled to Russia, Moscow says it now has a list of the names of 133 civilians who died in South Ossetia.

An official in the port of Poti, which was seized by Russian troops last week, said the Russians had left but not before blowing up a naval vessel and taking military equipment.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Havent seen this posted here...

All the Screams of Genocide seem to be a little premature now...


But, a lower amount of deaths, SHoULDNT, lower the severtity of the situation..

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

It should however raise questions about the motivations of the people who are screaming genocide. Especially since it is likely they are guilty of it themselves...

Well to be fair, the Russians say there's evidence of more deaths but they can't get all the information until their family members return, and S. Ossetian officials are still putting the death toll at around 1500 civilians.

The prosecutors reported finding many hastily dug graves in gardens - and said it would not be clear how many more dead were buried there until thousands of refugees return home.

The death toll from the war and its aftermath has yet to be independently determined.

On Wednesday, South Ossetian officials said 1,492 civilians had been killed.

Now that even the Russians are finally admitting the truth it will be interesting to see whether any of those who have repeatedly sought to justify Russia's actions on the basis of 'genocide' will have the grace to post a retraction in here. A truly huge number of posts have been based on that fallacy.

so 133 died, I beleive 145 died in the spain air crash. While I deplore the methods used by the Georgians, it was no doubt quick and effective had the Russians not stepped in. The principal of shock and awe works. Unfortunately it was the russians doing it after the fact not before. My concern is that there appears to be alot of Ethnic Cleansing being done in S.O. by the S.O. paramilitaries. Since Russia is currently in control of this area, it makes them accountable for any actions done there. I personally think that the S.O. will make the numbers go WAY up against Russia, and the media will make this out to look like russia being an ass. I truly believe though that they we pissed, and thought that people were dying, and there was plenty of oil to be had, thats why they went in.

Camain

Originally posted by pause4thought
Now that even the Russians are finally admitting the truth it will be interesting to see whether any of those who have repeatedly sought to justify Russia's actions on the basis of 'genocide' will have the grace to post a retraction in here. A truly huge number of posts have been based on that fallacy.

as usual more blah blah from you ....

he prosecutors reported finding many hastily dug graves in gardens - and said it would not be clear how many more dead were buried there until thousands of refugees return home. The death toll from the war and its aftermath has yet to be independently determined.
news.bbc.co.uk...

so , HRW source on ossetia was BS and also not known how many more dead were buried there until thousands of refugees return home. The death toll from the war and its aftermath has yet to be independently determined.


and according to independent estimates of South Ossetian militia 500(min) -2000 dead(max)
and looking at witness testimonies , it is clear that death toll is much higher than 50 (HRW BS source) or 133 (will go higher)


[edit on 22-8-2008 by manson_322]

The first casualty was truth. I have seen the death number reported as high as above 2000 to as low as 300... this new number is new to me. So Russia lied about the amount of dead....133.... .. 133 poor dead souls. for them this conflict is over, for us it continues.

Originally posted by titorite
The first casualty was truth. I have seen the death number reported as high as above 2000 to as low as 300... this new number is new to me. So Russia lied about the amount of dead....133.... .. 133 poor dead souls. for them this conflict is over, for us it continues.

Russia did not lie, it has confirmed 133 deaths , and has said that death toll is higher and yet not determined fully

he prosecutors reported finding many hastily dug graves in gardens - and said it would not be clear how many more dead were buried there until thousands of refugees return home. The death toll from the war and its aftermath has yet to be independently determined.

Clearly,BBC propagnada is trying to spin the news , as 1500 was initial estimate , and now 133 are confirmed and the death toll is not fully known

and according to independent estimates of South Ossetian militia 500(min) -2000 dead(max)
and looking at witness testimonies , it is clear that death toll is much higher than 50 (HRW BS source) or 133 (will go higher)

[edit on 22-8-2008 by manson_322]

First, even those hundreds that were killed - should not have died. Add thousands fugitives, wounded and people who lost their homes - this war should not be fought. As any war. So Georgian leaders who choose to attack (even after provocations) the separatist province are not without blame.
But it was clear from the start that Russian propaganda numbers were lies. Until now number of hostages who were killed in Beslan school terror attack is not known. But in the first day of war, with fog of war and such - numbers of dead are given. Fairy tales of leveled Tshinvally are told. Since when current Russian leadership is sensitive to losses of Russian civilians and genocide? How many Russian citizens the same people who rule the country had killed in Chechnya? It was "just" a publicity stunt.

reply to post by manson_322


Sadly you seem to epitomize the attitude that casualty figures that fit an agenda will be defended no matter what the reality. It does you no credit my friend.

The South Ossetian authorities sought to justify the Russian invasion (which 'coincidentally' guaranteed their objective of breaking away from Georgia) on the basis of 1,800-2,000 civilian deaths on the first day of the conflict. mtbp has simply confirmed that they still insist on regurgitating this same mantra, which has served their purpose very well in the media stakes.

If you want to believe relatives buried 1,500+ loved ones in their gardens, you are free to do so. Enough said.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by manson_322

 

If you want to believe relatives buried 1,500+ loved ones in their gardens, you are free to do so. Enough said.

If you want to believe relatives buried 1,500+ loved ones in their gardens, you are free to do so. Enough said.

and what proof do you have that relatives cannot or did not do so

and sadly , you accept western propaganda BS from Western media , it is your problem , because West is a proven agent provocateur,imperialist and genocide based

enough said






[edit on 22-8-2008 by manson_322]

Reply to manson_322


So you believe the statement from Russia is part of a western propaganda campaign!

It all makes sense really...

Originally posted by pause4thought
Reply to manson_322


So you believe the statement from Russia is part of a western propaganda campaign!

It all makes sense really...

no , the way , BBC twisted it to make a headline .....

Russia scales down Georgia toll (from 1600 to 133)

and then in the end of article , it says

he prosecutors reported finding many hastily dug graves in gardens - and said it would not be clear how many more dead were buried there until thousands of refugees return home. The death toll from the war and its aftermath has yet to be independently determined.

clearly facts twisted to suit western propaganda BS

reply to post by manson_322


OK my friend. Let's agree to differ and shake hands.

A lot of heat is being generated whereas in reality only time will confirm the true extent of civilian casualties with any degree of finality. So let's leave it there for now.

I'll just add that I concur with earlier posters than every single civilian killed or injured represents an immense tragedy. I am neither pro Georgia or pro Russia. I am anti-aggression, anti-violence and anti-disinformation.

Perhaps we can agree on the latter.

No doubt that the number 133 wil go up higher...


The inital reports of 1600+, most on here figured were not accurate...

This is only REAFIRMING that veiw...

This new number is CONFIRMED deaths...

reply to post by manson_322



I have been reading your posts for the past few weeks and I must admit you have very biased opinions. You also try to skew any facts that are contrary to what your bias is. Your obvious bias is against anything American. That is fine and all, but you also have numerously either ignored facts or made them up when they are convenient. You are not doing a good job getting your point across you just seem like an angry little prejudice man.

Back to the topic, as Russia not the msm did readjust the numbers I would say that this is probably pretty accurate give or take a few. Given that there initial reactions were to that of genocide how can they justify how deeply they are now in Georgia? Russia also chastised the US for not supporting their position due to the fact of Genocide, so maybe that was an over-reaction too.

I do pose this question though, if the Russians did not provoke this, how were the able to mobilize so quickly and in such quantity in reaction. I think there was provocation on both sides, and the Russia lovers are ignoring the fact that the S.O. were shelling Georgian villages and positions also. I guess only shells from America or her allies are bad, and the nice free loving nation of Russia are shells of freedom.

Originally posted by greysave
I do pose this question though, if the Russians did not provoke this, how were the able to mobilize so quickly and in such quantity in reaction.

I was following the conflict closely and despite of early reports of quick movement of Russian troops into Ossetia, Tskhinval didn't see much relief until 2 days later. This is based on actual Russian sources I was watching.

Yes, Russian troops had staging areas close to S. Ossetia, just to be ready for such eventuality. Good military planning. And of course I admit that Russia's actions were not just to avenge a few hundred dead and 38k displaced, impromptu, but to try and eviscerate Georgian Army, which they partially succeded in doing.