Signs of Ethnic Attacks in Georgia Conflict

Signs of Ethnic Attacks in Georgia Conflict

www.nytimes.com

TBILISI, Georgia — As the conflict between Russia and Georgia enters its second week, there is growing evidence of looting and “ethnic cleansing” in a number of villages throughout the area of conflict.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The article seems to convey a message which some will find biased against Russian or Ossetians of Russian descent.

We are still facing the meme of ethnicity in regards to the violence and looting. I question the ethnicity angle. This conflict is moving beyond the local ethnic connection that is said to exist.

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

EDIT TO ADD:

Now I'm hearing that it was the Ossetians who had been guilty of the 'ethnic' cleansing that brought about Russia's presence as 'peace-keeper' forces. At first I had the impression it was the other way around. Comments?

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Maxmars]

I think this is all very very muddy.

Who fired the first attack? I think we will never know, how much involvement did the CIA have etc....
These questions will only be answered by historians or commentators at a much later time, if indeed the facts ever come out.

However whatever the truth of that it does seem that both the Georgian and Russian troops have both committed horrendous crimes.

Ive seen compelling evidence from both sides, however was it troops dressed up as other troops, mercenaries who knows, the extant of the civilian complaints from both sides though leads me to believe that they are both breaking the Geneva Convention.

Kind Regards,

Mischevious Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Thank you for perhaps being the only respondent to my continuing effort to demonstrate that this war is not something only one party is 'guilty' of.

It seems to me that both parties (locally) have behaved shamefully, as those who inaugurate war always seem to do.

The battlefield is chaotic and reporters all too eager to believe what the armed person standing next to them is describing for them. I suspect this is another shining example of how elite leadership exercises their pursuit of empire.

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

Thank you for perhaps being the only respondent to my continuing effort to demonstrate that this war is not something only one party is 'guilty' of.

This is very important and the reality of MSM spin is more evident in this situation that even the Iraq 2nd invasion....

I have seen a very credible witness statement from a American living in Georgia, though in the enclave who states he saw Georgian troops going from house to house killing civilians and throwing grenades into cellars after they had made sure empty of troops and only civilians in there.

That does seem to corraborate some of the Russian Claims.

Also it is evident that the Russian's have been involved in similar treatment of civilians.

This isn't being displayed on the Western MSM media at all there is no balance present.

That is not suprising though considering the Israel links to Georgia and many of there countrymens control of the Media worldwide

Kind Regards,

Elf.

Actually isn't that what wars are for? and the desirable result? to kill, annihilate and devastate the enemy?

We can call it, collateral damage, ethnic cleansing or just plain murder but still that is what wars are designed for.



[edit on 15-8-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
think we will never know, how much involvement did the CIA have etc....

Because every bad thing that ever happens in the world has to be because of something America did or provocated. I guess the world was a utopia before the United States came on the scene.

reply to post by Maxmars


If Russians say the Georgians are committing acts of ethnic cleansing or vice versa, I do not think it is very credible. It is a combination of hyperbole and cynicism designed to win public sympathy. However, when Russia says their own allies are committing these acts, it should give everyone pause.

Further, from the article...

Human Rights Watch issued a report on Thursday that documented attacks by ethnic Ossetians in and around Tskhinvali on Wednesday. Researchers saw a number of houses on fire in the town of Java. They quoted a South Ossetian intelligence officer as saying that his fighters had burned the houses to “make sure” that the Georgians could not come back.

This may be one of the first confirmations from an independent third party that ethnic cleansing is happening.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
think we will never know, how much involvement did the CIA have etc....

Because every bad thing that ever happens in the world has to be because of something America did or provocated. I guess the world was a utopia before the United States came on the scene.

I didn't state that. There is proven involvement with the USA Military in this area, training the Georgian Troops very intensely in the last 4-8 weeks.

Maybe I shouldn't have used CIA as no proof of that for sure, but inserted "military advice" which we all know means that the CIA is there somewhere!

Having said that, and relating to this issue and conflict, and not having mentioned any other such conflicts in history I was only commenting on the factual situation.

I stand by my post! except for the semantics mentioned above!

Also I am a bit suprised on your response, if you would have read my posts in this thread, I am defending the fact that it seems there is blame on both sides, and certainly am not on a anti US crusade here!?

Kind Regards,

Elf.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
I didn't state that. There is proven involvement with the USA Military in this area, training the Georgian Troops very intensely in the last 4-8 weeks.

So what? That is nothing but more rhetoric to somehow blame the United States for what is happening. First, it is nothing but a knee-jerk Anti-American reaction. Why it is a crime for the United States to help train the military of their allies?

Second, this situation has been brewing since 1992; it did not start 2 months ago.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by SaviorComplex. I was far too harsh.]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by SaviorComplex]

reply to post by MischeviousElf


I agree that we can not take for granted that our own nation had military involvement of some kind in Georgia be by training or something else.

I don't care what anybody say this smells like a rat and I agree with you.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
First, it is nothing but a knee-jerk Anti-American reaction.

This is a conspiracy site and a conspiracy is what we are debating here, all angles are look at just because you views of the situation are different doesn't make the others that disagree with you anti-Americans or else.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

I agree that we can not take for granted that our own nation had military involvement of some kind in Georgia be by training or something else.

I don't care what anybody say this smells like a rat and I agree with you.

Marg how are you?

long time, anyhow thank you!

I say that because as you know I am usually quite quick to call into question American Foreign affairs and policy, I know on occasions, I have been the most critical of the US in many issues on ATS.

That has only been though where I feel it is warranted after looking at both sides.

Its obvious in this thread that this is not an "agenda" for me per se, as stated above only where it is warranted.

However I have also recently been vehemently as apposed to the Russian Posturing in the last few years, and have posted quite a bit about this.

They Russia & America(even if behind the scenes) Georgia, seem to be at their old games again.

What is new here is that this is the first time Russia has done it since the end of the Cold War, though obviously since 9-11 the US has been very active in situations like this.

I feel that the above paragraph contains the seed or reason for both the recent increase in Russian Posturing in European Airspace and around US military objectives, and this current event and further ones to come.

Why say?

Well I wonder, I just Wonder what the Russian Intelligence uncovered on the truth of 9/11?

Their observation of this terrible day, then support to the US in the aftermath allowing both airspace and bases to be used in the war on "terror"

They expected the same in return vis- a vis their ongoing Chech Nia Islamic Fundamentalist problem, after they had offered help to the US and its allies on the war on "terror" when just afterwards they attempted similar action, as the US was carrying out outside of its borders, when they wanted to do it within their own!

The diplomatic result was a disaster for them.

Also The obvious NATO expansion within Europe on their Borders, the missile defense shield, the coming Iran issue, reading PNAC and the dangers present to their nation state by the Neo conservative element within the Whitehouse.

In addition the south Georgian border is only just over a few hundred Kilometres north of Northern Iraq/Iran, so strategically its an obvious move, pre empting the pre emptive Whitehouse on IRAN!

Im not saying the recent Russian attacks are right, far from it, or that the US started this outright, I think the US has been obviously shocked by a cornered dog who just turned towards them and is growling; so

take another step towards it?

Bite it first?

Or back away controlling its escape routes? (Wishing & praying so)

Im just trying to understand this situation objectively.

It appears some of the Russian troops may have committed some terrible inhuman atrocities on women and children. I was going to say that if you looked at how many times a day the conscripts are beaten up or hit, 110% bullying all the time its not surprising they have become animals.

But then I just as I was about close this post I remembered
Abu Grave, and Felluga, and what I once believed was mainly an honorable army, one of the few in the world!
Remembering warriors not just soldiers!

However....

Hopefully thats balanced

To be honest as you can see above I just don't know anymore what is "just" and not "just" in these matters.

I just want it to stop, I want the civilains and children to go sleep not afraid tonight, if they can sleep. I

I just want the killing of human beings by Nation States to stop.

I just don't want to read about, and know innocent women children and men are undergoing "Ethnic Cleansing" in the modern world but just in history books!




Kind Regards,

Elf



[edit on 15-8-2008 by MischeviousElf]

You know that a country like Russia just like China and any other no so friendly ally of the US needs to keep their place in the world and demand respect.

It is so typical to judge other countries that are not in the list of friendly allies priority by the opinions of our own politicians that we all know or at least some that wants to know see understand what our government is up to.

I will say it over and over again, I do not trust my government anymore, specially when it comes with its very backward foreign policies that only benefits those that are willing to kiss up to their private agendas.