Inventing the myth of the flat earth

The link




It's a mystery: when there is abundant evidence that people in the Middle Ages knew for sure that the earth was basically spherical, why has the myth persisted until the late 20th century that Columbus had to argue against Flat Earth proponents to gain backing for his voyage? And where did this whole mythology come from?

Jeffrey Russell states that the modern view that people of the Middle Ages believed that the Earth was flat is said to have entered the popular imagination in the 19th century, thanks largely to the publication of Washington Irving's fantasy The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus in 1828.

As far as the intellectual history goes, the seed of the myth/error seems to have been specifically sown by Copernicus in his De Revolutionibus preface (not the one Osiander added!). There, he says:-

For it is not unknown that Lactantius, otherwise an illustrious writer but hardly an astronomer, speaks quite childishly about the earth's shape, when he mocks those who declared that the earth has the form of a globe.

And so the final irony here is that if De Revolutionibus had indeed (as Koestler asserted) been "The Book Nobody Read", the flat-earth myth/error might never have flowered.

More interestingly I still see people in this day and age repeating that old canard.

reply to post by Hanslune


Excellent post. I do remember in early grade school hearing the flat earth myth. It was debunked by my eighth grade history teacher.

It's like a cockroach very resistent to being killed off

reply to post by Hanslune


I also remember bringing in a Von Daniken book to read (I believe it was Chariots) and my history teacher gave me a funny look. He told me to think of questions and to read what he is saying carefully to catch mistakes. He started the skeptic in me to not blindly believe what a book has to say about a subject.

I think that since ancient Greeks time it is mostly just different charismatic people making living on account of those people who are both naturally suspicious of any kind of authority (which is sometimes good) and very poorly educated (which is always bad).
Myth is there ,no need to invent it. Just publish books, organize societies and you can make a fine living. It is a lot less profitable then,say, creating a religion out of sci-fi books but a lot less dangerous too.

Yes one can make a fine living making stuff up.

This is an immensely fascinating question (for me) Ive been pondering since a long time. Thanks for putting a spotlight on it. Starred + Flagged.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

Howdy Sky

Its interesting to watch how legends come and go, wax and wane. I've been meaning to look up how/when the Chinese and Indians came to view the world as spherical.

Not only middle agers knew the earth was spherical.

Plato/Timaeus 33b:

"As for the figure, the demiurge created the world in the geometric form of a globe. Indeed, the round figure is the most perfect one, because it comprehends or averages all the other figures and it is the most omnimorphic of all figures: "he [the demiurge] considered that the like is infinitely fairer than the unlike."

So...where did the idea that the earth is flat come from

reply to post by Skyfloating


From what i remember, it is considered to originate in Sumer and following local civilizations. However other ancient non sea-faring societies probably held similar views on Earth.

The earlier civilizations didn't figure it out. The Egyptians, Sumerians etc considered the world flat or flat with a bowl over the top (I'm simplfying that).

I'm not sure how the Indians and Chinese observed it or when they figured out the spherical concept but the real world is teasing me away from the keyboard at the moment.

Adding more information

The works of the classical Indian astronomer and mathematician Aryabhata (476 - 550 CE) deal with the sphericity of the Earth and the motion of the planets. The final two parts of his Sanskrit magnum opus the Aryabhatiya, which were named the Kalakriya ("reckoning of time") and the Gola ("sphere"), state that the earth is spherical and that its circumference is 4,967 yojanas, which in modern units is 39,968 km, which is only 62 km less than the current value of 40,030 km.[5][6] He also stated that the apparent rotation of the celestial objects was due to the actual rotation of the earth, calculating the length of the sidereal day to be 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds, which is also surprisingly accurate. It is likely that Aryabhata's results influenced European astronomy, because the 8th century Arabic version of the Aryabhatiya was translated into Latin in the 13th century.

The Islamic world calculated a accurate value for a spherical world, however their work may have been derivative from earlier Greek works or the work of the Indians. They did so as early as 800 CE. Armenians are also thought to have figured it out.

The Chinese seem to have made some strides towards this concept in the 1st century before CE. But I'm checking. At the present it would be the Greeks who have the honors for that. Checking on what the Egyptians knew and when.



[edit on 1/8/08 by Hanslune]

source

The Sacred Hoop

A concept that is often expressed in these three philosophies is the cyclical nature of all things made by the Creator. Thoreau illustrates this point in a journal entry, saying,

There is, indeed, a tide in the affairs of men, as the poet says, and yet as things flow they circulate, and the ebb always balances the flow. All streams are but tributary to the ocean, which itself does not stream, and the shores are unchanged, but in longer periods than man can measure. Go where we will, we discover infinite changes in particulars only, not in generals. (Reflections at Walden, pg. 23)

The Native Americans have a concept known as the “Sacred Hoop.” Bear Heart’s writings also illustrate the cyclical character of life as,

Our old teaching is that the universe is in harmony as long as we keep the Sacred Hoop intact. The Sacred Hoop is the circle of life—the Four Directions, the Earth, and everything that lives on the Earth. It includes not only the two-leggeds, but also the four-leggeds, the wingeds, those that live in the waters, those that crawl on the earth, even the plant life. Everything is part of the Sacred Hoop and everything is related. Our existence is so intertwined that our survival depends upon maintaining a balanced relationship with everything within the Sacred Hoop. (The Wind Is My Mother, pg. 190)

This idea of interconnectivity is expressed in Sámi literature as well. In fact, this is the central theme for Elina Helander and Kaarina Kailo’s work entitled, No Beginning, No End. It is this cyclical idea that Valkeapaa writes so extensively on,

and time does not exist, no end, none…and time is, eternal, always, is…rises, falls…is born, dies…thus,…days, years are rounded…snow melts…buds push…the river of life…into deep pools…in motion…the trek in the heart…land…rounded off…life’s circle…infinite…without…beginning…or end…fulfills…changes…colors…life (The Sun, My Father, #566)

There are other studies as well pointed to the idea of rounded earth teaching with original "Native" studies. If you also think about it...the teachings are also tied into "Global warming" concepts. So Al Gore was not the first to say "Look! We're messing up the earth!" It was the concept of Native Americans firstly and mostly.

Additional data:

Through use of the gnomon, the Chinese determined the circumference of the Earth. Between A.D. 721-725, several sites in Hue, Vietnam to Lingqui, China (near the Great Wall), were selected in a nearly straight North-South line. Their result was that 1° of latitude was 155 km, where the actual value is about 111 km. The Greeks were able to get this to a much more accurate measurement around 300 B.C."

From a post at bad astronomy

The link to bad astronomy

Are you sure the sumerians knew nothing of the earths shape? I quote myself from somewhere else:

One of the oldest flight reports comes from the Etana Epic of Babylonian Mythology. It contains numerous descriptions of ascension and flight above the earth and repeatedly describes how the earth gets smaller the higher you go. The Etana Epic, which is estimated to be more than 2000 years old (though others say more than 5000) can be viewed in the British Museum. In chapter 12/13 Etana addresses the God Samas asking for the “Herb of Immortality”. Samas tells him to go to the “Eagle” and the Eagle asks him what he wants. Etana responds with “Give me the herb of Immortality”. The Eagle takes Etana “on a ride to the Heavens”. During the flight, The Eagle points out how the earth is getting smaller six times, using words like “the sea now looks like a river”, “the country now looks like a mountain”, “the earth is now like a tree planting”, “Behold my friend, how the earth gets smaller! The country now looks like cake!” As the land disappears, etana says “I want to go back! Take me back!” upon which he is taken back by the Eagle and the earth gets bigger and bigger and the land comes closer and closer.

What?...................... so the earth isnt actualy flat?



Seriously though, its it that hard for people in this age to believe that the earth is round. But dirt sticks. Back in the day people didnt travel as much (as in they didnt travel much out of their own general area) and as a result Im sure people would assume that the earth was flat, even if some explorer came out and said that the earth was round Im sure people came out with some sort of evidence to say the earth was flat much in the same way that people do these days with fake ufo pics and reptilions and air on the moon and such. People get some idea in their head, and then you get this cycle happening..... not good.

-fm

It's a resistant little meme. It comes up on a regular basis.

Biblical Reference, Isaiah 40:22:

It is He that sitteth above the ball of the earth

In the original:

הַיֹּשֵׁב עַל-חוּג הָאָרֶץ, וְיֹשְׁבֶיהָ כַּחֲגָבִים; הַנּוֹטֶה כַדֹּק שָׁמַיִם, וַיִּמְתָּחֵם
כָּאֹהֶל לָשָׁבֶת.

reply to post by Skyfloating


THanks for actualy including the original. No one seems to be able to do that these days.

So even the bible said that the earth was round yet people still had an impression that the earth was flat. At least we now know that while the bible was being written people understood the earth was round and its not some new idea that was passed around by some sailors.

-fm

Actually, the fact the earth looked like a cake in the passage you quoted Sky, references the disc shape that all Semitic people believed the earth to be. The "ball" reference in Isaiah is more properly translated "circle" (though it can be interpreted either way, to translate it as "ball" ignores the fact that the entire civilization regarded it as a "circle" or disc).
Many Chinese astronomers believed a flat earth until the 1700's believe it or not. Hindu cosmology was flat. Mayans held a flat earth cosmology as well. Add the Norse cosmology. Most every ancient cosmology held a flat earth - usually a disc. Sea-faring nations tended to grasp the earth's rotundity more quickly, but a flat earth held on fairly vigourously in some 'circles'.
More in tune with the original post, I think the argument presented by Columbus was that the earth was a much smaller sphere than believed at the time. He had to try to convince the court this was the case to secure funding for his trip. It was commonly thought that one could make the trip to India by either route, but (rightly) held the current eastern approach would be faster. Columbus was off to find his own route across the Atlantic. Fortunately for him, he found a new trade market, although he did not realize this until much later.
It's a fascinating topic. I've made a hobby out of learning all about the flat earth cosmology.

Welcome _Del_

Good to have an expert on this subject at hand.

1. Did the knowledge of Shperical earth diffused out from the Greeks, or can they be some valid claims for local co-creation?

2. Do you feel anyone else had come up with the idea of spherical earth before the Greeks?

3. Why do you think the Chinese were so backwards in this one area? Was this a reflection of their mindset that China was the center of the world?