You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Greasing the wheels on the war tank called "anti-terrorism"...

I came across this article written by Foster Klug of the Associated Press in which he writes "Pakistan's prime minister rebuffed demands for unilateral U.S. action should terrorist leaders be found hiding in Pakistan."

Obama said at a fundraising luncheon Tuesday that he told Gilani in their meeting that "the only way we're going to be successful in the long term in defeating extremists ... is if we are giving people opportunities. If people have a chance for a better life, then they are not as likely to turn to the ideologies of violence and despair."

It seems that we will be sending aid now to Pakistan instead of the military equipment originally planned by the Bush admin.

Also Tuesday, two top Democratic lawmakers requested a hold on the Bush administration's plan to use $226 million of its proposed military equipment aid for Pakistan's anti-terrorism programs to help the South Asian country upgrade its aging fleet of U.S.-made F-16 fighter planes. They requested more information. "We are concerned that the administration's proposal to use military assistance to pay for the F-16 upgrades will divert funds from more effective counterterrorism tools like helicopters, TOW missiles and night-vision goggles," Rep. Howard Berman, chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and Rep. Nita Lowey, chair of the Appropriations' subcommittee on state and foreign operations, said in a statement. They said, however, that they wanted to help Pakistan's new government address an economic crisis and were proposing Congress provide $200 million in economic assistance to the government to relieve budgetary constraints.

It seems obvious to me that we are paving the way for a more cooperative relationship with Pakistan. Maybe Pakistan won't be playing "Switzerland" for much longer. Or is this aid just a pacifier for now? Do you think when it comes down to it will Pakistan hop on that "war tank" with us? Gilani's, "We can do it ourselves," line in the article kind of contradicts that notion. However if Obama becomes president and can continue to strengthen our relationship with Pakistan maybe we can work together to capture Bin Laden if, in fact, he is in Pakistan.

What do you all think? Will Pakistan work with the U.S. in our efforts to capture Bin Laden and other terrorists hiding within their borders, or will Pakistan be steadfast in their efforts to stay out of it?

I am sure the last thing the Pakistani people want to do is become involved. The hornets nest will be stirred one way or the other. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I am really a lay person in most political matters so I won't pretend to have any true insight into this. If it were up to me, I don't know what I would do. I just pray that this doesn't turn into full out WWIII (with all the possible repercussions -including what is going on with Iran.)

I think all the strife that has gone on in the Middle East is horrible and it needs to stop. If only with cooperation and wisdom to help and protect each other, and I mean throughout the world, maybe the earth can be a place of only memories of war, and no one will tolerate terrorists on their land. With that I will quote Obama again: "If people have a chance for a better life, then they are not as likely to turn to the ideologies of violence and despair."

I have no real knowlege of this but I do have an idea. Bin Laden has been dead for some time. There is no Bin Laden anymore. Our leaders need an enemy in this war that is not so abstract, so the evil "Bin Laden" is an easy target. It is hard to explain an enemy that looks just like the rest of the peacefull coutrymen and blends in when not holding an AK47. Wouldn't it be nice if we were just told the truth and left to deal with the information, rather than be spoon fed little bits of bull sheite.

reply to post by network dude


I should hope that that is not true. I think if he has been killed you would think someone would like to take the credit if nothing but to be lionized. However, I can see how his followers might keep it a secret if he died somehow in warfare without anyone's knowledge but their own.

Here's some more info. on Obama and Pakistan focusing on Pakistan's possible security posturing towards India and how that effects anti-terrorism efforts.

I feel that this will be a major catalyst for even more terrorist movement -like there isn't enough already.

Happy reading.

Here's another bit by Robert Baer. I think Obama didn't visit Pakistan on his trip because of diplomacy and the touchiness of the subject.

Baby steps... maybe if he acts slowly and surely he will be heard and respected more.

My $.02.

love and light,
-anyone

Example of rock and hard place.

The more I dig the messier it gets... and these have all come out today!

Here's another new article that maybe someone out there will want to read.

I would also like to recant what I said earlier about them playing "Switzerland." I really shouldn't condescend to know what is going on over there except that it's one big bloody mess. I fear that this storm is growing into a hurricane.

peace and love,
-anyone

Originally posted by anyone
Example of rock and hard place.

The more I dig the messier it gets... and these have all come out today!

Well in the realm of 9/11 conspiracies the ISI is sighted as the sole fiancee of the event.
(paying the high-jackers)

The assassination of Benazir Bhutto in pakistan... there is speculation that she was going to blow the whole war on terror by exposing certain things ...Hence she was killed...

HERE watch if you are not familiar- www.youtube.com...

I think terror as we know it is a pile...

I very seriously doubt ww3 pops up unless America keep encroaching and encircling Russia

I feel however that rebellion in America is very likely.
gangs in the military not to fight for the USA objectives ,but to train for when their real war starts in America over Aztlan..
Or extremist racist whites rising up causing a 3rd civil war.

reply to post by mental modulator


Wow. I thought the news of Benezir Bhuttos death sounded very fishy. May she rest in peace and may someone bring to light the true circumstances of her death. Thanks mental modulator for showing me this video.

What do you think is the purpose or reason behind it all if you think it was indeed funded by the ISI?

I am going to try to embed the video because I think that it is important for everyone to see. Hope it works I have trouble with this...





[edit on 3-8-2008 by anyone]

Originally posted by solo1
I very seriously doubt ww3 pops up unless America keep encroaching and encircling Russia

I feel however that rebellion in America is very likely.
gangs in the military not to fight for the USA objectives ,but to train for when their real war starts in America over Aztlan..
Or extremist racist whites rising up causing a 3rd civil war.

"real war starts in America over Aztlan.."

I don't know what you mean hear. I will go google...

"Or extremist racist whites rising up causing a 3rd civil war."

I don't see this happening. Maybe I'm deluding myself but I can't believe there are enough hate mongers in our country to achieve such a thing.

As far as WWIII goes I hope I am wrong.

Here's an article that came out today about the corruption in ISI.

And an excerpt:

Aside from the Haqqani network, other Taliban groups also seem to be working with a newfound energy and sophistication. Increasingly audacious Taliban attacks appear to point to the guiding hand of the ISI. Afghanistan has accused Pakistan of involvement in the mass prison break from Kandahar in June, and The New York Times reported yesterday that U.S. intelligence agencies had evidence of the ISI's hand in last month's bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul, the deadliest attack in the Afghan capital since 2001. While accusing fingers point to the ISI as a "state within a state," an organization that is dangerously out of control, any charges that are made against the agency should really be levelled at its boss, the Pakistani army itself. Mr. Khan, the retired ISI general, rejected the idea that the ISI was still backing the Taliban, but he insisted that his former employer follows orders from the army.

US working with Pak to deal with it's spy agency

and

Afghanistan accusing Pakistan of aiding insurgents

throw India into the mix and the quagmire is building.

Wow check this out

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan’s ruling coalition announced on Thursday that it will seek the impeachment of U.S.-backed President Pervez Musharraf, a move likely to deepen political instability in the country.

What's next?

another snippet from the article:

The move against the U.S. ally in the war against terrorism could plunge the nuclear-armed Muslim nation into a new bout of political instability unless former army chief Musharraf, who came to power in a coup nine years ago, decided to go quietly.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by anyone]

Pakistan is very restless: Ayman al-Zawahiri calls for jihad against Pakistan

I hope for Pakistan's sake they put their ducks in a row and come together to solve their problems. Who's really in charge, the Military, the PM, or the possibly soon to be impeached Pres. I pray that there can still be a diplomatic end to the seemingly endless unrest.

With Afghanistan, Iraq and Georgian conflicts, a Pakistani conflict to boot will surely be WWIII and doesn't even include Isreal and Iran.


It is hell on earth. WTH is wrong with us we think killing is going to solve problems...

God help us all.

A BBC news article about the tape.

135,000 people flee Pakistan tribal ares...

Here we go. The Taliban militants are urging people to join the jihad instead of flee. I can't even imagine how terrified these people must be feeling and many I am sure feel trapped into a decision.

In the Mammoond area of Bajaur, Taliban militants had banned people from migrating, saying that if they left the area it would be a sign of defeat, residents said.

The militant groups are urging men to join jihad (holy war) and keep their women and children at home, they said.

Pray for Pakistan.

Musharraf I believe felt trapped as well to resign.

The retired army general resigned Monday in the face of impeachment threats from the fragile ruling coalition, which is packed with his foes. He is believed to be in his army-guarded residence near the capital, Islamabad.

Pakistan violence flares after Musharraf resigns-by Munir Ahmad of Associated Press

The militant threat is spreading in Pakistan's northwest — with clashes between the army and insurgents killing at least 29 people since Musharraf's exit — adding to uncertainty about the new government's approach to tackling extremist violence. Unlike Musharraf, who took a hard line against the insurgents, the coalition has sought to negotiate peace treaties with tribal leaders in the restive northwest to curb the violence.

A military operation against insurgents in the Bajur tribal region has reportedly killed hundreds and displaced more than 200,000 in recent weeks.

Musharraf's departure isn't going to help anything. It is basically a symbol of how chaotic things are for Pakistan.

More rock and hard place...

Cross-border raids anger Pakistanis:

Meanwhile, Pakistan's newly elected President Asif Zardari addressed the nation soon after the bombing vowing not to be cowed and to step up Pakistan's assault on terrorists.

The U.S. has angered Pakistanis with increasing cross-border raids by its forces from Afghanistan to root out Islamic militants entrenched in the lawless and rugged tribal regions along the border.

Local newspapers are filled with outrage from columnists who accuse the United States of treating Pakistan as a surrogate, flaunting its sovereignty and killing innocents. Civilian casualties from the U.S. assaults have prompted tribesmen in the volatile frontier to threaten revolt.

Williams said the country's new leaders are caught between pressure from the U.S. to crack down on the militants and al-Qaida demands that they cut all ties with America.

Officials have harshly criticized U.S. incursions into Pakistani airspace and last week, Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, visited Pakistan to try to calm the anger.