Perimedics are clueless pannies

well my father once againg had a seizer and there were "5" paramedics there and i"200" had to hold down my dad"400" cause they were scared !!!itmakes me sick.
anyway i just spent 4 hours getting him uder controll or the "police" where goint take ANY MEANS NECCERYI just dont hav emy full trust in them ..ya know
any way just wanted to share that with you and see if any of you have ha something similiar???

yes emp's are clueless, I once had a friend who got in a pretty good wreck(he had "wrangler" tattooed across his hood) and after testing positive for, literally, every drug you could be tested for they proceeded to give him a pretty massive dose of morphine. Needless to say, he was found wandering around the street a few hours later lol

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Secret Shadow]

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Secret Shadow]

Oh ya , my mother is an RN in an oncology ward and shes seen more than a few times where a doctor wont disclose that a patient is terminally ill...pretty much sucks considering the nurses are bound by the doctors orders...

You must be talking about "American" paramedics, right?

There is a whole world outside your borders you know and I'm sure not ALL paramedics are like yours!

As a former ER doctor, I was with a REAL ER doctor when he and I witnessed a cardiac arrest while in Reno. We started good CPR and called 911. When the paramedics arrived they "took" over. It took forever for them to get an "easy" IV" started, and their "CPR" would not have moved anyone's blood.

The man was old and regardless of what you have read elsewhere, unless you defibrillate FAST, the chances of getting out of any arrest with a brain are slim to none and it took them about 15 minutes to get there.

ONLY because of that we did not push them out of the way and take over the finish their jobs for them.

Their performance was a joke. What was worse, they kept telling us "they were trained and didn't need our help". They needed lots and lots of help!

I was proud, however, that when I was active as an ER doc I taught paramedics that any accident victim they found unconscious had a broken neck until proven otherwise. I personally know of two patients who are walking today ONLY because they were treated this way. (One of them by a team of forest rangers!)

reply to post by Anonymous ATS



Kudos to you, Anonymous.

Having worked ER myself (as a nurse) I can tell you there's a big difference in EMT's and Paramedics. A good paramedic can mean the difference in whether the patient survives long enough to make it to the emergency department or not.

We once had a 60 year old that stepped off his front porch (6" drop), fell and broke his leg. The EMT's (not paramedics) that brought him in did not have an abduction wedge pillow in place. I scolded them for it (out of earshot of the patient) and placed the wedge myself. The EMT's transferred him to the X-ray department, removed the wedge for the x-ray to be taken, THEN transferred him to the x-ray table which caused him to throw an emboli and die. Paramedics have 2 years of training in emergency procedures and would have known better.

There's good and bad in all professions, though. Human nature dictates that some will be more conscientious than others, too.

hmmm not that BTS means I cannot disagree.....


Being a EMT-P for 16years I really don't know how to respond to the initial claims that "emp's" are or the Judgements wagered upon the likes of many fellow paramedics.

I guess the best thing for me to say is, no matter what, where or when, there the good the bad and the ugly in all walks of life. Some are better than others, some care, others don't.

I'll just remember to forget your statement when you need my help in the future.

In the end, you willl one day be saying, HELP ME PLEASE I guarentee it!

[edit on 22-7-2008 by theability]

Oh how sad...a few bad experiences and we are all retarded now huh?

Ok I'll play the game.

I was an EM'T'-P for 6 years before leaving for the military. I have made my mistakes and had my bad days. I can admit that but who can't. Please show me a doctor who is perfect?

I taught CPR to an ER doctor who watched and failed on three tries. I saw an ER nurse who almost lost her mind and tried to do CPR on a breathing patient.

So let's play the game then...

1. I have seen ER doctors on several occasions doing CPR on the lower sternum where the xyphoid process exists. The process snapped and the patient wasn't saved and had he been saved he would have now suffer a lacerated liver.

Conclusion: I can no longer trust any ER doctors

2. I once saw an ER nurse fail 4 times in a row to start an easy IV when a tech came down and nailed it in one shot.

Conclusion: I can no longer trust any ER nurses

3. My father was killed by a hematologist's mistake. My father was factor-V defficient and hemmoraghing in his brain. He was sent home with prescribed bed rest.

Conclusion: I can no longer trust hematologists

4. My partner once poked himself with a needle infected with hepatits-C.

Conclusion: I can no longer trust any paramedics

so...let's look at the reverse side of this...

1. I have seen an ER doctor work for an hour straight on a heart-case that should have been a lost cause because he felt there was somehting of a chance there.

2. An ER nurse friend of mine performed nternal CPR after a chest was cracked to save a person.

3. A hemotologist I once knew stayed up past his hours on his hiloday to assure a man he never met was receiving his platelets properly

4. and finally...I have performed over 2000 calls and lost 4 patients

So because of that one doc, that one nurse, that one hematologist, and my partner, I can no longer trust any of them to include myself.

The 'easy' IV thing is a total crock of you-know-what. I myself have large and easily visible veins. I am always well hydrated and at first glance I am a phlebotomists wet dream. Guess what? Those bigs beautiful 'pipes' medics like to see roll and collapse sometimes.

I had this one back-to-back night where I had a 30 year old man in great fitness and for whatever reason I just couldn't hit that vein. 20 minutes later I had a partially-dehydrated infant and nailed it in one shot.

If people can't see that there is good and bad in any member of public service then they need to go learn it themselves since it is so easy.

Oh and one more thing...let's try to forget the fact that paramedics deal in blood and fluids, in unsafe conditions, with screaming relatives, lights, and sirens blaring all around them whil wondering (in some cases) if they will be shot. OH...and just for fun...let's dash in the fact that other 'real' members of medicine fail to give us any respect.

Yep...too easy

oh and FYI I have never had a doctor need to teach me to always assume spinal fracture or herniation. That's cover in day one of trauma.

-Kyo



[edit on 5-8-2008 by KyoZero]

[edit on 5-8-2008 by KyoZero]

They do have the most stressful job outside of Fireman. More people die in their hands than any other job.

I saw two emp's walking out of a fastfood chain today walking and strutting like they where hot shots!

I thought, "What Lamers!"

And that's fine. I am down with medics who still stay humble but in a way they need to be loaded with confidence. Unlike the hospital we don't typically have a team of people helping us once the firefighter's leave.

All I am saying is why down a whole group because of a few mess-ups?

I dare anyone to show me a profession where some of it's members have never messed up big.

If ya really wanna see some cocky folks, come meet some of the Air Force and ESPECIALLY Naval pilots. PHEW!!! If you aren't confident you don't need to be a fighter pilot.

BTW nice addition. I have a special place for firefighters.

-Kyo

I have nothing but respect and admiration for these brave souls that are out on the front lines doing the best they can.

My step-father suffered a massive heart attack one evening and they saved his life. I can still hear them using the defibrillator in the kitchen as I sat in the living room not knowing what to do with myself, and then being comforted by these individuals once they got a pulse back. The end result of this evening was the passing of my step-father, but the efforts of these guys did not go unnoticed.

While I am not a paramedic, nor do I know anyone in my immediate family who is one.. I certainly resent the implication that these individuals are incompetent in any way. I can not think of a tougher job on the planet than showing up to a scene each and every night, not knowing what you're going to face and trying to save the life of a complete stranger. All the while dealing with family members who are in hysterics.

...and I will say the EXACT same thing I say in my dealings in the military.

Thank you...I truly was not looking for gratitude. I am tough and I can handle people's dislike and mistrust of me but I just don't like seeing it I suppose. I mean to each their own but it was just my opinion.

-Kyo

reply to post by bugs_n_recovery


"Perimedics are clueless...."
This from the guy who cant write one sentence with proper spelling.What kind of seizure was your dad having that required police presence?I don't know about where you live but over my ways the ambos are not allowed to treat anyone who is a danger to them and if police are involved they have to stay right out of it until the police give them the ok.
These people do a mostly thankless job and have to deal with all kinds of crap.
So if you had a terrible accident you would rather no one come to your aid?

Oh man...Iw as shown up!!!

I COMPLETELY forgot that. Yes OP the medics can't take care of a person who is a threat to them because if we are suddenly disabled we have two problems.

1. Who now takes care of your dad?

2. Who takes care of the new body? (me the medic)

Thanks A!

-Kyo

Originally posted by KyoZero


oh and FYI I have never had a doctor need to teach me to always assume spinal fracture or herniation. That's cover in day one of trauma.

-Kyo



[edit on 5-8-2008 by KyoZero]

[edit on 5-8-2008 by KyoZero]

i just had my first day of EMT Lab in school today. six hour class, a bit more physically demanding than what i was expecting, but very fun and interesting. the majority of what we went over today was proper lifting procedures. we indeed learned to always take care of a patient's spine whenever moving them around.

well i've seen only 5 or 6 bad emt/paramedics out of 30 or so, 2 nearly killed me, i otherwise like them.

reply to post by KyoZero


If I could applaud you, I would. I think it's ridiculous that "ER doctors" and nurses jump at the chance to bash their peers, but you were able to look at the situation from an out of the box perspective. That was the most hard hitting non bias piece I've read in a long time. Thanks for sharing.

I am a certified WEMT (Wilderness Emergency Medical Technician) and even the responsibility that I have taken by getting this certification alone is pretty nerve racking. If anything goes down, I have a life in my hands, and who's to say if the odds are in our favor or not. I've only had to use what I know a handful of times and nothing too serious. I could only imagine what it would be like to have a job where the cause of a patient's ailment or episode is unknown. Going through numerous and instantaneous steps of how to properly diagnose and treat them, getting them stable, then hauling to the hospital so they avoid further complications.

People can talk all day long about how incompetent EMT's are, but this is easily one of the most stressful jobs one could ever have. Give credit where credit is due, and if you could understand how nerve racking it was for me to suture someone's thigh up or put a dislocated shoulder back in place in the field for the first time, I think you, as someone who probably wouldn't have to do those things in their life, would have a lot more respect for what they do. My respect for what they do everyday is immeasurable and I am happy that injuries are very rare in my line of work.

The paramedics who came to my home twice were professional. The first time, I did not remember anything and was told I was at death's door when I arrived at the hospital. The paramedics had saved my life. I personally thanked them for doing their job, and they said it was what they do. As some of the posters said there are good and bad in all jobs. The ones who helped me were the best.

This was in Louisiana.

[edit on 8/23/2008 by kidflash2008]

Saying that ALL paramedics are clueless pannies is a little over the top.

Paramedics get 2 years of training. EMT's considerably less. That said, RN's get 4 years training and LPN's get considerably less yet I have seen and worked with some LPN's that I would rather have be my nurse if I needed one that some of the RN's. This includes being in ICU. LPN's in ICU is frowned upon because of the many restrictions to their nurse practice act (what they can and can not do). Still, given enough bananas a monkey could learn to do my job (RN) and I work in ICU/ER.

Critical thinking skills and common sense don't come with the diploma. One either has those or not. I've seen Dr's that lacked them and they had a lot more education than me. There are, of course, paramedics that lack those skills or have some character defect that prevents them from utilizing their skills/knowledge but overall, paramedics have ample training to do the work they do. They often make the difference in whether the patient lives long enough to get to the ER/ICU. EMT's also have adequate training for the work they're supposed to do but, like nursing, we often utilize people with less training to do things that need doing whether they have adequate training or not.

Plus, just like LPN's that work around RN's long enough will pick up on the skills/knowledge they didn't get in school, so will EMT's that ride with paramedics absorb more than they got in school.

Each persons' level of conscientiousness and work ethic ultimately determines whether they are clueless pannies on the job, not whether they've had more schooling.