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Gov. says Guard, state police may help in Chicago

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posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 03:34 PM
Not a current source.

My source was the dubious advantage of physically being present when the NG was used to supplement local police in AR, OK, MO, and GA over a time period reaching from 1974 to 1986.

My first eyewitness account was in Ft Smith AR in 1974. Drug wars or the Battle of Tillis Park it was referred to at the time. I was just trying to get home from work and detained at a roadblock @ 11:30PM.

The ensuing running gun battle I witnessed lasted at least 20 minutes and involved city, county, and at least 1 state police officer, and a team of Arkansas National Guardsmen that were training at Ft Chaffee at that time. As far as I could tell there were no deaths but there were at least 4 injuries that required a visit to St Edwards Hospital at which I was employed then.

Please feel free to U2U me if you would like further info.

posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 06:28 PM
Oh wow, I don't know how I forgot this shining example in Chicago's history...

Like father like son...

Daley and the City

In the build up to the Convention, Daley repeatedly announced "Law and order will be maintained".[10]
Chicago’s security forces were well prepared for the convention. Through Police Superintendent Wilson’s efforts of modernization and the motivation to be prepared for the demonstrators, the Chicago police were well equipped. Besides the standard gun and billy club, CPD officers had mace and riot helmets. For the convention, the CPD borrowed a new portable communications system from the military, greatly increasing communication between field officers and command posts. All summer long, police officers had received refresher training on crowd control and riot techniques. During the convention itself, Police Academy instructors were with the reserve forces, giving last minute reminders.[11]
To satisfy manpower requirements, the City put the force on 12-hour shifts, instead of the normal 8-hour shifts. This gave police commanders approximately 50% more field officers to deal with disturbances. Two thirds of the officers would continue with the normal police duties. The remaining third would be on hand for special assignment. The 12-hour shift also contributed to the violence. The officers were working long hours under stressful conditions, so it is no wonder that the violence by police officers increased as the week progressed. In the Amphitheatre, the City concentrated 500 officers filling various roles. In Lincoln Park, the number of officers patrolling during the daytime was doubled, but the majority of the officers assigned to the Lincoln Park area were held in reserve, ready to respond to any disturbance. Police officials essentially planned a zone defense for defending the city. In suspected trouble areas, police patrols were heavy. As one moved away from the center, patrols were less frequent. This allowed the police to shift easily and quickly to control a problem without leaving an area unguarded. While maintaining a public image of total enforcement of all city, state, and federal laws, the Narcotics division was quietly reassigned to regular fieldwork, curtailing anti-drug operations during the DNC..
Police officials and Mayor Daley had worked with the National Guard to create a plan to effectively use the National Guard. The Guard would be called up at the beginning of the convention, but held in reserve at strategically placed armories or collection points such as Soldier Field. This made the Guard into a rapid response force. In previous civil disturbances, much of the delay in regaining control was in the implementation of the National Guard. With the Guard in place at their armories, the CPD could request and receive assistance before they were completely overwhelmed by protesters. By the time of the DNC, Chicago was prepared for the worst, making it appear almost as an occupied city.

I guess the use of the National Guard in Chicago is not without precedent. I think this answers a bunch of rhetorical questions...

But in reality, it also shows that the City of Chicago has been at the forefront of using Military technologies and techniques, even in 1968. Mace was 6 years old.

"Besides the standard gun and billy club, CPD officers had mace and riot helmets. For the convention, the CPD borrowed a new portable communications system from the military, greatly increasing communication between field officers and command posts. All summer long, police officers had received refresher training on crowd control and riot techniques."

I believe that 'new' portable communications system is the precursor to what we now call cell phones.

Mace (spray)

Mace is a tear gas in the form of an aerosol spray which propels the lachrymator mixed with a volatile solvent. It is sometimes used as a self-defense device. This form of Mace is legal in very few countries, thus its use is becoming uncommon.
The original formulation consisted of 1% CN gas in a solvent of 2-butanol, propylene glycol, cyclohexene, and dipropylene glycol methyl ether. Some formulations now also include Oleoresin Capsicum (active ingredient in pepper spray).
Mace was originally manufactured under the name "Chemical Mace" by Lake Erie Chemical (a former division of Smith & Wesson) in 1962, but is now a registered trademark of Mace Security International. The Mace sold today by Mace Security International is pepper spray rather than tear gas. Many other companies now manufacture similar products.


[edit on 20/7/2008 by DocMoreau]

posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:04 PM
reply to post by DocMoreau

Yes, i totally agree. This is an invasion of privacy and against the law to stop me without cause. I didnt push the issue because i had my 1 and 4 year old kids with me. If i was alone i would have asked them why they stopped me and asked them if i was being detained. I would have let them arrest me and then see where it would go from there. This definetely needs to be challenged by everyone who is subjected to these kinds of stops.

posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:22 PM
Get the gun shops open in Illinois and let the honest citizens arm themselves like the SCOTUS says is legal. Watch the crime rates drop.

posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:40 PM
The Wiki info cited above still details the use of the NG under special circumstances. Regular police officers were working 12-hour shifts and narcs were redeployed. This was not a general policing scenario.

As I wrote earlier, I am almost certain the use of NG troops for general policing in non-emergency situations supplementary to existing LE agencies has no precedent.

I don't have time to research it at the moment, but I believe there is also a Constitutional prohibition against using the military for such purposes under non-emergency circumstances. My recollection of this is vague and, therefore, may be in error with respect to NG troops. The prohibition may only apply to regular troops.

posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:51 PM
reply to post by Sleuth

As I have stated before - it is the state's governor that determines if the situation warrants activating the national guard.

The Army National Guard exists in all 50 states, three territories and the District of Columbia. The state, territory or district leadership are the Commanders in Chief for each Guard. Their Adjutants General are answerable to them for the training and readiness of the units. At the state level, the governors reserve the ability, under the Constitution of the United States, to call up members of the National Guard in time of domestic emergencies or need.

The Army National Guard's state mission is perhaps the most visible and well known. Nearly everyone has seen or heard of Guard units responding to battle fires or helping communities deal with floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, snowstorms or other emergency situations. In times of civil unrest, the citizens of a state can rest assured that the Guard will be ready to respond, if needed.

I don't mind helping with research.

posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:23 PM
reply to post by kerontehe

I understand the circumstances under which the NG is deployed. Apparently, I am not adequately communicating to you that the conditions under which the governor of Illinois intends to deploy those troops is not an emergency situation. The conditions under which he has offered to deploy them are not an emergency and, therefore, constitute a step towards martial law.

The NG has always been reserved to supplement at times of disaster and its deployment has always been carefully weighed against the fact that there are existing law enforcement and other agencies in place whose primary responsibilities are the maintenance of peace and protection of the public.

In Chicago, there is no emergency. There is no absence of existing LE agencies. The social service system is intact and functioning. The governor of Illinois is poised to set exactly the kind of precedent that this country has always striven to avoid under its banner of freedom.

This, kerontehe, is dark water we're treading.


[edit on 7/20/08 by Sleuth]

posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 11:08 PM
reply to post by Sleuth
I repeat again, the governor has the authority to determine what constitutes an emergency.

If this is dark water we are treading, perhaps Blackwater could give swimming lessons.

[edit on 7/20/2008 by kerontehe]

posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 06:44 AM

Originally posted by kerontehe
I repeat again, the governor has the authority to determine what constitutes an emergency.

And I repeat again that the circumstances cited as the impetus for the proposed deployment do not constitute an emergency.

An elevated crime rate is not an emergency. If you're going to make it an emergency then the entire nation will be facing a precedent that we cannot afford to set.

posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:26 AM

Originally posted by kerontehe
If this is dark water we are treading, perhaps Blackwater could give swimming lessons.

Your comment speaks mountains.

I was thinking about this thread before I went to sleep last night, and I realized that I may have failed to clarify my thoughts a bit.

I am not saying that all Chicago Police are criminals. Some are, but the public perception of the Chicago Police is one of corruption, and even the best officers get put in bad situations by the corrupt ones.

In regard to the 'emergency' situation question, yes the governor does have that right, and if it is his perogative, so be it. But many would question the decision. Unless it could be proven that the entire Chicago Police force is corrupt (*it has happened, see at end of post), it is not emergency enough in that case. The recent gun violence has been terrible, but doesn't warrant the National Guard. The cases were too isolated. That is unless the National Guard came knocking on every door in Chicago to take away guns. The skills of the Guard would be wasted.

I agree with this statement:

Originally posted by Sleuth
An elevated crime rate is not an emergency. If you're going to make it an emergency then the entire nation will be facing a precedent that we cannot afford to set.

Chicago's crime rate is high, but has always been high. I recommend the book Gem of the Prairie : An Informal History of the Chicago Underworld 1940 by Herbert Asbury to understand how ingrained crime is woven into the fabric of Chicago. It discusses the days in which Chicago was born as a city, and how corruption and crime ran rampant. I have seen a modern version called The Gangs of Chicago: An Informal History of the Chicago Underworld (Illinois) - A Sequel to The Gangs of New York that came out around the movie. Not so much a sequel, Gem of the Prairie is its own documentation of Chicago, by the same author.

Anyway, I think the recent comments by Blagojevich are misplaced in their reasoning, there is some merit to an outside entity acting as a conservator of sorts for the Chicago Police force. A sort of mass Internal Investigation. But I don't think the methods proposed are the right ones. Gun control in the City of Chicago is one of the strictest in the world. Blagojevich himself proposed raising the Illinois Gun license fee from $5 to $500.

Governor Blagojevich is a long time supporter of gun control. He has tried to raise the price of an Illinois Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card from $5.00 to $500.00, saying that such a large increase was necessary so people would think twice about wanting to own a gun.

(I personally find this idea laughable after seeing the collection of handguns that a CTA worker I knew had before he turned it over to the Police. He emptied the trash on the stations, and at least once a month he would find a gun in the trash. He only cleaned like 6 stations weekly, in a relativly 'nice' neighborhood.)

I personally think that the amount of Gun Control in Chicago, combined with the government corruption, keeps everyday citizens from protecting themselves while the Gangs and Police act with impunity. The recent Supreme Court decision regarding handguns in Wash D.C. should have quite a lot of impact in Chicago as well.

Allow your citizens to legally own handguns, and cut out the corrupt Chicago Police officers, and Chicago would stabilze. Take away the arms of your law abiding citizens, and only the criminals have them (gangsters and cops alike)

*Chicago's suburb of Cicero has had as much, if not more corruption as Chicago. In 1998, the corruption got so bad that the Town President was removed and the Police Force taken over and run by the State Police. Cicero is the place Al Capone set up, after the heat got to great for him withing Chicago city limits. It has had trouble with corruption since.
Cicero Journal; In a Town of Scandal, Yet One More

Over the years, this old town of brick bungalows on Chicago's western edge has been famous as the headquarters for Al Capone, as a haven of strip clubs and after-hours taverns, as a place where blacks, if they valued their safety, steered clear.

Now, in the latest Cicero scandal, more than 40 police officers, one-third of the force, have been suspended by the municipal government in the last year for misdeeds that include extortion and violation of the rule requiring Cicero's police to live in town (a modest infraction, perhaps, but handy to pin on an officer suspected of greater wrongdoing).

The political furor surrounding the town's own investigation of the corruption has cost Cicero three police chiefs in the last month. And just last Thursday the Illinois State Police took over the department, using its troopers to patrol the streets.

[edit on 21/7/2008 by DocMoreau]

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