What The Bleep Are They On About?

For all the people who think that quantum physics and consciousness are most definitely connected, they might not be after all

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"Not exactly, Amit. The observer effect of quantum physics isn't about people or reality. It comes from the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and it's about the limitations of trying to measure the position and momentum of subatomic particles. Gripping stuff, but nothing to do with our daily lives.

Heisenberg basically says you can't get a really accurate fix on both the position and the momentum of a subatomic particle - say an electron - at the same time. You can be accurate in one or the other, but not in both. (It's all to do with photons of light from your measuring instrument hitting the poor electron and knocking it for six). It's actually the machine that's the observer, not the human who's jotting down results."

So quantum physics and consciousness are not so connected after all...

I guess people are just going to ignore this and continue making making topics about how we can change reality with our consciousness.

Though at the time I enjoyed watching "What the bleep do we know" it has since - upon further research - become a huge disappointment to me. Stuart Hameroff himself has made reference to how poorly edited the documentary was relative to the information and work put forth at the time by both him and the other physicists that appear in it.

Though it is an entertaining documentary as it concerns quantum physics it is at best marginal.

reply to post by ADONIS


Looks like the scientists are still divided on the issue.

Originally posted by ADONIS

"Not exactly, Amit. The observer effect of quantum physics isn't about people or reality. It comes from the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and it's about the limitations of trying to measure the position and momentum of subatomic particles. Gripping stuff, but nothing to do with our daily lives.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Well, only partly. I guess you could say that quote is simply misleading.


The observer effect has a whole lot more attached to it and most is indeed incorrectly so However,

There is a related issue in quantum mechanics relating to whether systems have pre-existing — prior to measurement, that is — properties corresponding to all measurements that could possibly be made on them. The assumption that they do is often referred to as "realism" in the literature, although it has been argued that the word "realism" is being used in a more restricted sense than philosophical realism[1]. A recent experiment in the realm of quantum physics has been quoted as meaning that we have to "say goodbye" to realism, although the author of the paper states only that "we would [..] have to give up certain intuitive features of realism" [2] [3]. These experiments demonstrate a puzzling relationship between the act of measurement and the system being measured, but it is unclear if they require a conscious observer or not.

(wikipedia)
is really the more proper use and debate as of recently.

That movie is nothing more than an amusement and inspires a sense of wonder. But that's all.

Physics is struggling to get a foothold ever since quantum effects were discovered. Until then, it was sitting safe on solid Newtonian world. Of course, many new fundamental discoveries have been made, but mostly we are stuck on the old things like uncertainty principle and wave function collapse effect.

Because nothing could be done, Copenhagen interpretation tried to sweep everything under the carpet by 'agreeing' on some stuff, which is being taught in the text books to students, to make things less embarrassing for all. The physics became pure maths after that.

So no one knows. And what that movie and this article (very shallow IMO), and everyone else does is discuss the matter (no pun) as if a group of blind men discuss about an elephant.

Well all I'm saying is that quantum physics and consciousness may not be connected as people say it is (Although I may be wrong)

we just don't really know if quantum physics and consciousness are connected.

I personally don't think they are connected and that we can shape reality with our thoughts, we can change are perception on it though

[edit on 11/7/08 by ADONIS]

what do you think reality is? it is a subjectively bent memory or view of what is really going on. think of the placebo effect used on patients.

This thread is highly amusing because the observer principle is real.

It is not so much that there are scientific laws as once we observe them we pput them into place, here in our little corner of the universe How we choose to observe things will be the deciding factor to our outcome as a species.

Do we choose to prove that quantum physics is connected to conciousness, and live in a universe in which we can change the principal obstacles to continuation as a species

or

do we decide to observe that we have no effect on quantum physics and "trap" ourselves in a universe of limited possibility?

The observer and what outcome and mindset the bulk of people approach this topic with will determine the "final" evidence on the subject in the not so distant future...

If we chose to observe that the observer has no effect on reality, as a species we will be bound by unchanging principles of physics locked in our place here in the galaxy until we are no more.

It is the ultimate test handed to us by g-d a test of faith, of free will, in the end judgement day is at our own hand... or not. There is an observer effect, we are all innately divine, the collective concious will decide if we feel we deserve this kind of power or if we decide we are hopeless and unable to affect the world around us.

But it is all in our heads, it is sad that it would be from science that some would strike at these beliefs, that science without faith is so... hopeless and constrained



[edit on 15-7-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by ADONIS
Well all I'm saying is that quantum physics and consciousness may not be connected as people say it is (Although I may be wrong)

we just don't really know if quantum physics and consciousness are connected.

I personally don't think they are connected and that we can shape reality with our thoughts, we can change are perception on it though

[edit on 11/7/08 by ADONIS]

I genuinely do it every single day, not a day goes by in which I fail to manifest something I desire. We absolutely do shape (our own) realities... the problem in proofing it is standing next to a person who doesn't have faith,. doesn't believe and having to mainifest your reality while an opposing mind is manifesting from a place of disbelief... it cancels out.

I have learned to keep away from negative people, people who believe in things and would manifest terrible things in my life... I stopped going to the docter 20 years ago and have never been sick again as an example, I don't believe I age the way others do...and I no longer do, I am physically years younger than when I woke up.

The hard part isn't doing it, the hard part is doing it in the face of the beliefs of a collective conciousness or even other individuals beliefs or curses thrown at you

"you look tired" "cigarettes cause cancer"

I smoke and when left alone, I never cough, I do 12k every other day, and swim a mile or 2 also... never cough...

but... if someone harps on me to quit smoking, tells me how bad it is, I find not long after I will manifest phlem and cough ...

so... thank g-d I work on the internet lol, I can shut off murderous thoughts when I feel like it...

Money is another simple way to prove the principal of belief, it works, isolate yourself from people who have money problems and bad programs associated with it and simply believe you will get what you want... I assure you, you will.

I went from dead broke last year (gave everything to my ex when we split including my business) I was renting a room from a bunch of dope fiends (didn't know that when I took it) and 12 months later i'm drinking mahitos by the pool in the richest part of town... I have Pradas on my feet lol, 12 months ago my shoes had holes in them to the ground, I was stepping barefoot on concrete for a few weeks when I walked...

and,... here's the catch... I never had a job to get it all back, not in any traditional sense...

what you believe effects things...

so choose, believe we are locked in, that the laws of physics are beyond our control, that we are not miniature g-ds...

or believe something else... and, make that your world, but it's real, absolutely real...

just hard to believe until you do it and it's hard because, you have to get rid of all your own baggage and broken belief systems first and then you have to put aside people in your life who don't do the same...

and depending on who those people are, it's a tough thing to do... but trust me, a hypocondriac mother will cause real disease, so will your doctor, an angry friend will make life suck for you too... and... you can't always take everyone with you...

like I said you can influence your world...but if the guy standing next to you chooses to see something else, your going to get hit with it...




[edit on 15-7-2008 by mopusvindictus]

well i'd have to ask the OP, do you believe in mind over matter? as personally i take it to be the same thing as quantum states being affected by conciousness. take for example, buddhist monks (or really any monks of eastern philosophies) who use the "mind over matter" technique.