Perplexing Thought on Time Travel

I just had one of those weird thoughts, and although I don't actually believe any of this I thought I'd share it with the rest of you. Remember, it's just food for thought.

I was thinking about time travel and also about why so many people put up with being controlled by their governments e.t.c. It's just so weird that almost everyone I speak to say that they know they're being screwed everyday of their lives by the government, but yet they still do nothing about it.

Then it hit me, almost every uprising I could think about against a dominating force had been the result of one truly great leader, someone who could lead the masses against this domination. The reason there are no uprisings anymore is because there are no more leaders, no strong men(or women) who could lead the people. Why is this?

Then I started thinking really far-fetched and came to the horrifying thought of "what if the government, aliens e.t.c. had a time machine?" If there ever was an uprising then whether it be the government or aliens they could just target the source of it, as there's always a leader, and go back in time and take him out. Bang! end of story, no one would even remember anything and the masses would carry on being brainless worker bees for the elite.

Please don't take any of this seriously, it's just something to have a sci-fi type think about lol. Maybe I've been watching They Live too much hahaha.

interesting thought. But thats the complexities of tiem travel how would they know there is threat from a group unless they experienced it already. And the go back in time and elimate that threat then they never experienced the threat and therefore never sent anyone back. I believe in time travel but here my few of it. I think we can and willin the future. But i dont think we will be able to intereact with the people of the past or the future that we go to. THis could explain ghost and stuff. Like they are tiem travelers who can just merely obseve time not alter it.

I think you make a good point there. I mean that would probably be the very reason that the governments of the future would use such technology . There's no way that we would ever know because the possible future leaders of any uprising would be taken out before there was ever any hint of their potential.

Originally posted by John Nada
I was thinking about time travel and also about why so many people put up with being controlled by their governments e.t.c. It's just so weird that almost everyone I speak to say that they know they're being screwed everyday of their lives by the government, but yet they still do nothing about it.

Then it hit me, almost every uprising I could think about against a dominating force had been the result of one truly great leader, someone who could lead the masses against this domination. The reason there are no uprisings anymore is because there are no more leaders, no strong men(or women) who could lead the people. Why is this?

I truely believe that it is because of capitalism/consumerism. Very few are willing to risk giving up the 'things' that they have slaved for. In a sense, they give us value to the point where we are proud of the objects that we believe we own. You know the old saying The things that you own end up owning you. It is true and maybe that is where the control is coming from. You always have to get the next new thing, upgrade, flashiest items; this is the companies and corporations playing you out through the bombardment of advertising and the illusion that you will somehow be a more important person if you have more then your neighors. The one who dies with the most toys wins. How sad of a reality is that!?! You can't take it with you so you are only really renting it all. How many people would actually risk losing their 'value' (toys) to fight against what we may actually believe is right, but also feel that it is hopeless to do so.


Children!
For anyone that has children you will get the truth in this. So what if you really are ready to take up arms and fight for what you believe in? Are you going to just sling your child in a backpack and charge? No you are going to protect them as best that you can from violence. You are going to just suck it in and play the game in order to protect them.

Jonna is exactly right. The only truly effective way to prevent revolution is to give people something else to live for!

This is what countries like Israel and the United States don't understand. If Israel would assist the Palestinians in achieving a decent quality of life, then the Palestinian people would have a reason NOT to become suicide bombers. After all, it's much easier to do something extreme when you're mad and depressed, than when you're comfortable and satisfied.

There are many other examples of this theory in action. Haiti, for instance.

Give people a reason to live, and they won't be willing to die.

Quantum theory and experiments have shown that particles whether they are adjacent or far from each other can interact demonstrating a force that is greater than light speed - more like instantainious to us in our dimension.

If it can be learned how this works and the energy levels estimated to be needed can be brought down to resonable levels, at a minimum viewers looking to the future may be feasable.

If one could look into the future and find events to change, and do so, that change can then be seen in the viewer. You of course would not see the original future as was seen first.

The paradox situation can be sidestepped if the existence of multiverse's pan out. In multiverse's any infinite number of scenarios can exist side by side. In essence you would jump from one to the other at each change in history that you made. This may not be apparent to the one experiencing change at the moment, unless you had a viewer to see into the other multiverse - otherwise history would unfold just as you percieve it now in a linear fashion.

From what I've read on the subject its theoretically easier to see the future and effect change now(past) to change the future. We can do that now by intuition and educated guess, we just can't cheat and see the end result.

So far as I know.........................?



[Edited on 8-3-2004 by Phoenix]

I disagree, Phoenix.

First, I don't think that quantum entanglement (the phenomenon you describe) can be used independent of time. For example, an entangled pair is created at one point in time; it is not possible (at least given current scientific knowledge) to quantum "link" a newly-created particle to an existing one, or to link two previously independent particles.

Second, multiverse theory seems to preclude viewing the future. By definition, multiverse theory predicts that every one of the choices made every day is played out in every possible consequence in a thread of time. In other words, when you're trying to decide "should I have a sandwich or macaroni and cheese for lunch", time branches off so that in one thread you have a sandwich, and in the other you have macaroni and cheese. As these branches can only occur when the choice is presented, seeing the future is impossible, as it is impossible to predict which path will be chosen by you, when the decision comes to be made.

Sorry if this is confusing, let me know if I need to clarify.

sminneman, right now I don't have the time to pull up a bunch of links, maybe later this evening.

But for now I will say, quit thinking of time as a fixed linear pathway going only one direction, its curved therefore one can take a shortcut and depending on where your point of view exists it may speed up, slow down and possibly change direction or not exist at all.

Multiverse viewing will not change the viewed dimension but may change the one you are currently residing in due to your changed perception - but if you could step into the other one momentarily your could change it, step back out and view the results.

I'm sorry I disagree but, particles don't neccessarily have to share the same space time to interact. Pairing doe's not preclude a viewer.

I thought you would like to hear Carl Sagan�s comments on time travel. He is one of my favorites. If you click on the question NOVA asked him you will hear his response through RealAudio.

Sagan on Time Travel

Carl Sagan, the astronomer, Pulitzer Prize-winning author, and legendary popularizer of science, gave this interview during the making of "Time Travel." True to form, he discusses arcane aspects of the field -- from how you define time to what it might look like inside a wormhole -- with flair and a refreshing dash of humor. Sagan was David Duncan Professor of Astronomy and Space Sciences and director of the Laboratory for Planetary Studies at Cornell University when he died in 1996.

NOVA: Let's start with the crux of the matter. What for you is time?

NOVA: Do you think that backwards time travel will ever be possible?

NOVA: Would you like it to be possible?

NOVA: On that note, can you describe the "grandfather paradox?"

NOVA: Do you find it easy to believe the world might work that way -- that is, self-consistently -- or do you think it's more likely that that there are parallel universes?

NOVA: As a physicist, what do you make of Stephen Hawking's chronological protection conjecture [which holds that the laws of physics disallow time machines]?

NOVA: Such as?

NOVA: How is the speed of light connected to time travel?

NOVA: In your novel Contact, your main character Eleanor Arroway travels through a wormhole. Can you describe a wormhole?

NOVA: What do you think it would be like to travel through a wormhole?

I just had one of those weird thoughts, and although I don't actually believe any of this I thought I'd share it with the rest of you. Remember, it's just food for thought.

I was thinking about time travel and also about why so many people put up with being controlled by their governments e.t.c. It's just so weird that almost everyone I speak to say that they know they're being screwed everyday of their lives by the government, but yet they still do nothing about it.

Then it hit me, almost every uprising I could think about against a dominating force had been the result of one truly great leader, someone who could lead the masses against this domination. The reason there are no uprisings anymore is because there are no more leaders, no strong men(or women) who could lead the people. Why is this?

Then I started thinking really far-fetched and came to the horrifying thought of "what if the government, aliens e.t.c. had a time machine?" If there ever was an uprising then whether it be the government or aliens they could just target the source of it, as there's always a leader, and go back in time and take him out. Bang! end of story, no one would even remember anything and the masses would carry on being brainless worker bees for the elite.

Please don't take any of this seriously, it's just something to have a sci-fi type think about lol. Maybe I've been watching They Live too much hahaha.

isn't that kind of the plot to terminator? the machine is sent back to kill the leader of the human resistance against the machines? therefore no resistance would occur...

I think it is about alternate time lines. Example there is a time line thread where jfk was not killed and that time line continues to this day. We are in the time line where he was killed. It is like branches of a complex tree.

reply to post by John Nada

Then it hit me, almost every uprising I could think about against a dominating force had been the result of one truly great leader, someone who could lead the masses against this domination. The reason there are no uprisings anymore is because there are no more leaders, no strong men(or women) who could lead the people. Why is this?

We don't have great leaders anymore because anyone with potential and is identified early on is targeted for co-opting, betrayal and remorseless harassment and in the worst case, death.

Why do you think Cointelpro exists? Why do you think cops and homeland security have the authority to run organised stalking gangs?

reply to post by Hemps


Yes, this was part of Terminator.

Anyway, if you think about it if time travel was invented, out lives would probably be controlled by a small group of nerdy scientists. Sure it may have been funded by powerful governments but after a while, it would be the scientists who would figure out they were in control (I think there was another movie about how a person uses their time travel machine to figure out how to evade control of the government, the one with the items in the envelop).

You don't need a time machine to stop uprisings because uprisings are extremely few and far between. Believe it or not, most people want things to stay the same. They have it pretty good. They're able to live their lives, raise a family, etc., and they're not being starved or tortured. Compared to a large portion of world history that's remarkable, and it would take the presentation of a much better alternative for people to rock the boat. And better alternatives are even rarer than uprisings.

You got an obviously better alternative way of running things? "We'd all love to see your plan."

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady


You're right. I was/am one of those leaders. However, at an early age I was beaten down and ostracized to the point where I no longer care about the fate of those around me. I was singled out and separated from other children and forced to endure torture by authorities until I gave up. To this day I still feel the strong pull of destiny pushing me to lead the fight for justice. But every time I make an attempt I get ridicule and derision for my efforts. I tried to get some people to help me let a dozen black pigs loose in the Democratic National Convention here in NC. I figure it is the best way to disrupt the convention, make a statement and not get anyone hurt or killed in the process. I got no takers. No one wants to fight.

I would lead if I had any followers. But no one wants to listen. You all suffer for it. I could make a difference if only you people would listen and do. Charlie Manson had followers, Doe had followers. But I am alone. And I ain't Don Quixote. I ain't fighting the government alone.

reply to post by Ookie


You obviously have the strength of conviction but by taking direct action, a democratic right, the authorities will take steps to put you in prison.

The most dangerous radicals are intellectuals and those with the ability to influence people. The authorities hate them and always have their cards marked.

To be a proper leader you have to be a feel good salesman, look after you followers, stroke their individual egos and intellectually test your ideals and convey them honestly and convincingly. These are the people in greatest danger.

reply to post by John Nada


Terminator movies. And your just now thinking about it. Kind of old news. But it is flawed in more ways than one. First off why just take out a leader of the opposition, why not go farther back and change evest such that everything is as you want it to be from the start.

But first, since there is no such thing as time there can never be a time machine. You know, time is a human construct.

Good luck with your thoughts.