The Unwitting Conservative Conspiracy: From Capitalist 1st World, To Communist 3rd World...

The Unwitting Conservative Conspiracy: From Capitalist 1st World, To Communist 3rd World...

Both Capitalism and Socialism, on paper, have pretty decent ideas, not all good, not all bad,
so let me start off by saying that this really is about what people are doing with these ideas,
not a critique of these ideas.

This is my analysis and extrapolation of where the Ideology of the Conservative/Republican party.

1. By creating corporate fiefdoms, and de facto monopolies, then de-regulating them and globalizing them,
the corporations and their management hierarchies seperate themselves from the nation. With no ties
or concerns for the parent nation (in our case, USA), they will, and have, priced entire industries out
of the country. example: There are no real Textile Industries in the majority of regions in the US.

1b. this will first help the economy by lowering prices, then obliterate it by eliminating Blue Collar Jobs and
even White Collar Jobs. (see India Textiles & Telecoms, Chinese EVERYTHING).

1c. by ensuring activity in only the top half of the economic pool, [that being the Owners/Investors
and Upper Managers as well as their Government Counterparts/Infiltrators] Inflation outpaces Growth, and
the economy recedes and possibly crashes.

2. By privatization of social programs and reallocation of funding from social programs to foreign wars and
national security programs, the country is further destabilized by causing ignorance and unrest, with
an enormous and copiously breeding uneducated working class, as well as an even bigger 'vice' class [aka Gangs]
who exist to take advantage of the working class, who are depressed and uninsured, depending on illicit drugs or
alcohol to self-medicate.

2b. with this process completely evolved, the middle classes will be eliminated entirely, leaving a very small
'Noble Class' and a very large 'Peasant Class' who will be controlled by superstition and misdirection
[megachurches, FoxNews], and of course, outbreaks of rioting will occur.

2c. to counter the rioting, police will be militarized and the dissenting 'Peasant Class' will be labeled
'Terrorists'. an undeclared civil war will break out, and entire regions will be controlled by gangs and
paramilitary organizations. [see Colombia and their relationship with FARC]

3. Eventually, the 4%ers [aka the 'Nobles'] will be releived of their military because that military will not
get their paychecks, because the government will have no money. private armies [gangs] take over.

3a. fighting will continue until one of two scenarios occur: scenario A- the paramilitary orgs unite and divide
and conquer the ruling class, absorbing their private armies this clearing the way for a Fascist Communist Party
to take over, in collective recoil from the failures of the Capitalist Free Market Strategy; OR scenario B- fighting
continues until an outside agency [China?] invades.



Conclusion: by finding a truly Centrist path, social socialism and economic capitalism with an anti-fascist bent
and checks and balances, we will avoid economic and cultural upheaval and the degredation of the USA.



~sMg~

In your opinion where do we stand now in your timeline?

Is their a practical thing that each citizen can partake in to help to offset your scenario?

ie. Give monetary support to Ron Paul.

reply to post by MegaTherion

This is my analysis and extrapolation of where the Ideology of the Conservative/Republican party.

Do you believe that there are members of the Democratic Party involved in this or is it just the Republican Party?

reply to post by harvib

I believe all parties are involved.
I'm working on a piece about what could happen with the liberal side as well.
There are many republican/conservative ideals that I do find useful/good.

reply to post by harvib


I also totally missed that dangling participle.

0.0

reply to post by MegaTherion


Excellent first thread, and welcome to ATS!

I'm curious to see what you say about the liberal side of things.

reply to post by whiteraven

for one thing, we should participate in civics a lot more and stop being distracted by the latest gadget. [I'm looking at YOU iPhone!]

and of course we should stop believing we are somehow seperate from other people, i.e. the conservative view that 'as long as I'm okay, who cares about the next guy, he has to take care of himself', which is a truly ignorant statement. Most people want a Hand UP, not a Hand Out.

I think the most important thing is questioning everything, and doing what you can as opposed to giving up because you don't think you can do anything. [I'm talking about all those people who say 'my vote doesn't count anyway, the system is rigged... ' and so on. look at what we did with Obama. People gave as little as 10 dollars toward the campaign, and he's collected more that way than all of McCains's GOP sources could provide]


btw, Ron Paul is an interesting guy, has some GREAT ideas, really.
BUT- a government without taxes is a nonexistent government.

Social Security is not just for those who never could contribute, it's also for people who were disabled and payed taxes their whole lives. They deserve help for making the country I could have these rights and opportunities in.

Contrary to popular belief, there aren't a million programs you can get on to help you out.

as for taxes, I wouldn't mind forking out HALF of my meager income if we, as citizens, got something in return , which I beleive that's what government is for. [example: I support the Afghan war, not Iraq. we had no say in Iraq, it's just George's pet project. example: Healthcare should be available, and better health care should be available for those who can pay for it. Good roads, etc. ]

a true american value, a true christian value: 'We Take Care Of Our Own'.

I guess what I was trying to get across to conservatives specifically with this post is that it's not bad to want to get ahead by working hard, but to deny responsibility for your fellow americans is naive. Who wants to be rich in a place getting bombarded with mortars and moltovs? If you don't help those who are really trying, and structure the system so that they can't have a good quality of life, they will revolt and take out those they envy.

long response, huh?

sorry bout that.

reply to post by whiteraven


oh yes, in the timeline, I think we should be at about 1c.

I'm assuming you mean "current crop of Republicans", and not conservatives.
I hope so, I'm a conservative, and I am highly upset about the hacks that have hijacked the party. They are not conservatives, not liberals either. They are Self serving elitists, and it runs down both sides of the aisle.

And a minor correction:

Rep Paul does not want to get rid of taxes, BTW..Only the income tax.
We could survive very well without the IRS, and it's invasive nature.
Through tariffs on imports , and a national sales tax.
A national sales tax, taxes EVERYONE, including those who don't report their income. They have to buy stuff.

Originally posted by MegaTherion
3a. fighting will continue until one of two scenarios occur: scenario A- the paramilitary orgs unite and divide and conquer the ruling class, absorbing their private armies this clearing the way for a Fascist Communist Party to take over

Interesting post, welcome to ATS

You got me with what I've quoted above. Facism and Communism are ideological opposites, so a "facist communist party" is an oxymoron as really you can only be one or the other.

I'm assuming you mean a hardline dictatorial communist party?

reply to post by spacedoubt


and yeah, I tried to mention that I dig alot of 'real' republican ideals.

I'm mainly talking about the current GOP hijackers.
good point.

another thought tho-

a national sales tax penalizes the low-income who can't afford things yet ALSO have to buy things.

it's about who can take the hit from the taxation with as little effect on their lives.

example- mcdonalds worker, makes 5 bucks an hour, every cent counts, yet Bill O'Reilly for instance, makes millions a year, even if you took 50% of his income he'd still have a fabulous lifestyle, and never have to worry about putting food on the table.

but, yeah, good point.


[edit on 25-6-2008 by MegaTherion]

reply to post by neformore

that's kind of splitting hairs, because the end is the same.

Stalin was a Fascist, I'm sorry. but then again, USSR was hardly socialist, was it?

yeah, there is a difference between a fascist and a dictator, one wants you to conform to standards of behaviour and thought, and the other commands according to his own whims....

I suppose in THEORY[sorry, don't know bbcode enough for italics yet. I usually use html ] they are opposite, but in practice they don't strictly adhere to marx.

I would actually really appreciate a followup on how a socialist cannot be a fascist.

let me find a webster's definition here....

I'm no poli-sci professor!!!

reply to post by MegaTherion


I like you.
You don't seem to be beholden to a particular political philosophy
Glad to have you aboard!

I think, on the national sales tax thing there would still be room for some non taxable items. Groceries, medicine, iphones. You know, the bare necessities

Going on a tangent with the national sales tax a bit, but check out www.fairtax.org... for a national sales tax that has a prbate system that takes care of the problem of "hurting" poor people with a sales tax.

when we you learn the republican party and Bush aren't conservative.

reply to post by Gorman91


I'm just using their own labels for themselves.

I wouldn't call people who blow that kind of cash fiscal conservatives, and I certainly wouldn't call them 'small-government republicans' when they invent something like 10 new bureaucracies in 8 years.

I understand your plight man.

I'm just using their name for themselves.