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Obama plans to tax Middle Class AND the POOR; Proof!!

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posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:33 AM
I heard an interview the other day on XM satellite radio, where POTUS (the station) ran an interview with Wolf Blitzer and the DCCC (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee) chairman, Rep. Chris Van Hollen. (I like the station because it tends to be a little more fair and balanced)

So for once I did some research.

In this interview, and what caught my attention, were some statements about the direction that Obama wants to take our tax policies. To place this in context,here is the link to the transcripts. Just scroll down to the part with Van Hollen and you can see that he was rebutting a statement that was played where Sen, Mccain said that Obama's plan would raise taxes on the middle class and stymie the economic growth of our nation.

His answer stunned me. Here it is...

BLITZER: Listen to John McCain rail against Senator Obama on the issue of taxes. Because he says that, if Obama is elected president, taxes won't only go up for the wealthy, but they'll go up for the middle class as well. Listen to this.
(plays clip)
BLITZER: That's going to scare a lot of voters out there.

VAN HOLLEN: But it's flat-out untrue. And people need to go and look at what Barack Obama is proposing. What he has proposed is a middle-class tax cut. People in the middle income category will get a tax cut. If you're over $250,000 a year, you may see your Bush tax breaks rolled back some.

So this is an issue where people have got to look at the facts. Because the Democrats have been pushing for AMT reform. We want to get rid of the alternative minimum tax. We want middle-class tax relief.

The Republicans, on the other hand, have focused on providing tax breaks to people at the very, very top.

Sounds great, right? I mean, lib bloggers everywhere thought so....

But there is something else. Something that the above blogger left out/omitted in his haste to praise our Sen. Obama and Rep. Van Hollen....

BLITZER: A lot of middle-class families have investments where they get capital gains, where they get, you know, dividends. And he says, under Obama's proposals, they would be paying more tax.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, what Obama has said is that you shouldn't give a break to leisure over labor.

In other words, people who are making money simply by investing it, rather than through their work in the labor force, shouldn't be getting a break over the people who are going to work every day. That's essentially his position. And I think that makes sense to most people, that if you're working every day, you shouldn't carry a larger burden than other...

BLITZER: So you have no problem seeing the capital gains tax rate go up?
Because Obama has clearly suggested, if he had his way, it would go up.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, we're going to be looking at Senator Obama's proposal. We haven't adopted any particular position on that issue, in the House, as Democrats. But I just want to be clear that that's what he said.

Did you read that??!!

Even Wolf Blitzer pointed out what I have been saying for months! I am poor, but thank God my company has a 401k program. I get matching funds, and a tax break for investing. But if these tax increases are agreed upon, then the investment that I made will not be worth the money I need them to be when I retire.

The man says it right there! He (Obama) believes that I should only get money for the days labor, and that investing, or saving if you will, should be looked down upon as "cheating".

And where does that investment go? Into companies that create jobs, and promote economic growth. But now, people will be taxed up to 15% more, making these taxes equal to the ones on earnings, (or more if they get the tax rates they want)

If Enron taught us anything, it's that a heck of a lot of the middle class have their futures tied up in these stocks. This tax will affect MILLIONS of MIDDLE CLASS citizens.

Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in saying you want tax relief for the middle class, only to tax the crap out of the one chance they have at economic independence?

Is this just more of the plot to force us to be reliant on Social Security, therefore reliant on the government? (as well as securing votes for whoever "protects" these funds?)

[edit on 18-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:42 AM
Taxes are taxes and the middle class is going to get screwed one way or another. You could take the money that you are saving by having lower general tax rate and invest it to offset your increased capital gains tax. Realistically though, by the time you want to pull out your 401k, I would suspect that Obama will be long gone.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:57 AM
reply to post by Karlhungis

What I want you to notice is two things.

One, Sen. Obama wants me to think that his wealth redistribution plan will make MY life better, because Lord knows that I cannot make logical decisions with my money, nor should I reap the rewards of making wise investments.

Second, he doesn't want the sheeple to catch wind of his OBVIOUS plan to tax them more. He knows that if he says it in the "straight" terms that Mccain is, then middle class voters will freak!

Even their blogs OMIT the very phrases from their transcripts! (see above ink)

As for the fact that Obama will be gone? All it takes is four to eight years of limited investing for this country to begin an irreversible downward spiral. And it takes YEARS for these taxes to be repealed.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:23 AM
Forgive me but I think you are overreacting here. I didn't read how much the increase would be on capital gains, just like I didn't read just how much he plans to cut other taxes. Who knows, it may balance out. I know I pay a lot more in federal income tax than I do in capital gains tax. So if I had to pick one to be reduced, I would choose the income tax. It doesn't really matter though because this is all empty talk.

The reality of the situation is that you can't believe a word that comes out of either of their mouthes at this point. All they are doing is pandering for votes and saying whatever they think their voters want to hear.

Would you feel better if he said he would just stop taxes all together? We won't know what these guys have in store until they are in office. I would imagine that circumstances will dictate a much different picture than the ones that they are presenting for votes.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:54 AM
reply to post by Karlhungis

The current rate is 15%.

The proposed increase would be to 28%.

Almost double, with the wealthiest stockholders paying as much as 50%.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:59 AM
reply to post by jasonjnelson

And what is the proposed cut on income tax? Would the difference balance out in your case? Personally, I pay large sums of income tax twice a month. I only pay capital gains tax maybe twice a year.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 04:40 AM
reply to post by Karlhungis

There is no cut. Just a continuation of current cuts.

And wait until your investments become larger numbers.... it will add up...

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 04:44 AM
reply to post by jasonjnelson

OK, I am confused.

What he has proposed is a middle-class tax cut. People in the middle income category will get a tax cut.

That sounds like a cut, not a continuation. Forgive me if I am missing the point here, but it is late.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 05:28 AM
reply to post by Karlhungis

He is talking about the tax cuts that are set to expire for the middle class. He is only talking about extending those cuts, while increasing the current taxes on paper earnings. I know, it is confusing...

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:47 AM
Sorry I spoke too soon before I read the article. Truthwithin is right about Obama's plan it is only going to effect the people making 250k plus a year. Which is way over middle class as far as im concerned.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by eric52081]

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:00 AM
I don't understand this concept of "balancing out". What this does is punish those of us who pay attention to our money and live frugally in order to stash away a few dollars for retirement.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:07 AM
reply to post by BlueTriangle

I don't see how it punishes the middle class at all.....

i maybe missing something....

Obama is for the lower and middle class, atleast this is what i take from this thread from the OP

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
I don't see how it punishes the middle class at all.....

i maybe missing something....

Obama is for the lower and middle class, atleast this is what i take from this thread from the OP

I'm lower middle. I live my life on a strict budget so that I can retire in 20-25 years and live off of my investments to maintain my lifestyle. Obama has plans to increase the taxes on my investments. See the connection?

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:22 AM
One thing your article does not mention is that the cap gains tax will raise from 15% to 28% only for those who make over $250,000.

In addition to raising taxes on top-bracket capital gains and dividends, Mr. Obama said he would pay for his middle-class tax cuts by cutting out breaks for corporations and cracking down on the use by some multinational companies of so-called international tax havens to evade paying the IRS.

Your 401k's do not fall into this category, and if for some reason they do, 28% is relatively normal. In other words, if I made $100,000 last year in salary, and was only taxed 28% then I would be getting a huge break.

Where this cap gains come into play is the guy who has $1,000,000 in investments and is making $120,000 off of them annually. If he is only getting a 15% rate, then that is not "in balance" with the normal guy who made a $120,000 in salary and was taxed nearly 40% (the national average after Federal, State and local taxes are pulled out).

Also remember that most of the middle class do not earn the majority of their income through capital gains. If you do invest, there are multiple options for you to invest without falling under the cap gains restriction. For example, a Roth IRA account can give you a great retirement with almost zero withdraw or tax penalty.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by TruthWithin]

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:25 AM
When Obama is President, everything will be free.
Of course someones going to have to pay for this stuff so naturally everyone will get taxed.
I don't understand why his supporters refuse to see this.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:27 AM

Originally posted by eric52081
Obama's tax plan and his wealth distribution plans is just away to take from the middle class and give to the people that live in the projects. Places like the 9th ward in New Orleans. The problem with these people that live in areas like this is that they are poor by choice.

Can you support your bigoted claims? SHOW me that Obama's tax plan is designed to only help those in the projects and in "places like the 9th Ward". Stop posting these ignorant things unless you can actually prove something. That is what educated people do. If they make these grandiose claims they had better have something to back it up.

C'mon man. Deny ignorance. Don't spread it!

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:35 AM
reply to post by TruthWithin

The Post has been edited Truthwithin. I did some googling and found out the truth.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:40 AM
reply to post by eric52081

I just wanted to say, "Good on you"! for doing the research to find the truth. I really appreciate it. I wish more people would research these crazy claims.

I'd like to remind the OP that poor people (as in your title) many times don't have 401Ks. They're poor. YOU should have done more research.

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:43 PM
Are you refering to 401K?

If so - woudl i be wrong in thinking that this 28% tax woudl not apply to a 401k...
it would apply to stock trades and similar type investments

401k is nothing like that

unless im mistaken (which has been known to happen on a daily basis)

posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:42 PM
I really don't think that your answer to my post provided a solutions to the problem the DCCC chair has presented.
I agree, as I spent some new time looking, that the tax rate affects a different group than I first noticed. However, I would still point to the fact that these politicians have the nerve to say that we shouldn't get these higher returns on investment. THAT is what fuels the economy, not the other way around.

Besides, what about all of the work that goes into investing properly in the first place?

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