U.S. losing nearly half a million jobs per week

Geeze i think AR is right..if you bost any reply to BT that does not fall into line with his form of thinking..He goess off and calls the poster all sorts of names..how interesting..Sorry to see AR go...!

On Topic..

If you want a job you can find one..i have a a family of average size..and as the person that is reasbonable for there well being i would never let my self get into a situation that i could not support them..even if that means takeing jobs that i would consider below me..

Question..dont unemployment rates historicaly go up after chrsitmas..as the seasonal jobs shut down??

Boomslang

PS AR please rethink your departure..as you are one of the few that i tend to search out on these boards..

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
What is "censorship" to you? Do you believe, A-R, that it is "censorship" that public society has certain controls, not on exchange of ideas or opinion, but on the transgression of those without the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, decent and indecent?

Are you saying that you have not the capability to act in a civil manner and still relay thoughts, ideas and opinions to others? If this be the case, whether or not you come here is not the question, the question is whether you should venture in public at all is the one that should be asked.

While you have worthwhile ideas and opinions, your exit will be of no more importance than mine or many others here at ATS, as this forum will still be here for those who have the desire to exchange ideas.

Has it at any time crossed your mind that you have not been censored but corrected in your social faux paus and that you should not be reacting in anger but in embarassment?

We should all strive to achieve the social and comunicative excellance demonstrated by both William and Estragon.

My, aren't you just the greatest thing since sliced bread? You have got to be the most sanctimonious prig whose slop I have had the displeasure of reading. Does the power trip of censoring somebody�s post, and very badly, I might add...your grammar sucks... make you feel like a big man? Did you "put me in my place"? I sure hope you feel better.

You see, you didn't simply replace a "bad word" like "azz"; you altered the meaning of my post, and also made it grammatically incorrect. Giving anyone the power to censor and alter the meaning of someone�s post is bad, but when that ability is given to someone like you, who chooses to chastise in public one who complains about your shoddy job, that is just sad. The next time you decide to play god, get some background information first. Maybe you wont cause such a ruckus if you at least halfway know what you are talking about, unlike this case.

Boomslang, thank you for the back up, I appreciate it. It�s sad when a simple member knows more about what is happening on the board than one who is chosen to moderate it.

To all the others that asked that I reconsider leaving the board, thank you for your kind words. However, I am a man of principal, and I cannot, and will not, tolerate censorship of any kind. I put my life on the line every day to ensure you have your right to free speech, and I cannot stomach self-righteous morons who have a superiority complex. If the censorship stops, and TC is displaced as a moderator, I may return, but I doubt that will happen. As TC said, my leaving will have little effect here, but probably more so than his continued presence.


[Edited on 5-1-2003 by Affirmative Reaction]

You still haven't figured out what censorship is, have you? And you still think that one can yell "Censorship!" and that means they should be excused for improper behavior in public, huh? You probably think that the Founding Fathers didn't fight and lose all, not for the ability to have the right to say what you want, even if it is to tell the king he has no clothes, but so that you can cuss and attack.
How sad. And your defense is to say that I am a sanctimonious prig, among other things. Yes, truly sad that society has devolved to this state.
Come, go, this is a choice. If you fear that you'll not be able to control yourself again and be treated like a child because of your childish behavior, you have little to fear, as I have less time for reading and even less time correcting vulgar little children's profanity and insults toward others.
That's all I have to say on the matter. You are making it a point to stray the thread from the original idea (censorship through manipulation) and I'll have no more part of it.

By the way, the chastisement was very much tongue in cheek and I thought that was evident to any rational man. Just so you'll know, I didn't inflict pain upon myself in order to pay the price for your transgressions.

Boomer, I understand your viewpoint on B-T, and it was my intention to monitor his assaults against people as well. Talk about censorship and the strangling of the flow of ideas, personal attacks cause many to not enter into the exchange of ideas because of that, no matter who is doing it. Many people will look in here and then move on if the place has the language of a bathroom wall, too. Unlike what Hollywood would have us believe, not everyone thinks filth is a natural and desirable environment.

[Edited on 5-1-2003 by Thomas Crowne]

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
To all the others that asked that I reconsider leaving the board, thank you for your kind words. However, I am a man of principal, and I cannot, and will not, tolerate censorship of any kind. I put my life on the line every day to ensure you have your right to free speech, and I cannot stomach self-righteous morons who have a superiority complex. If the censorship stops, and TC is displaced as a moderator, I may return, but I doubt that will happen. As TC said, my leaving will have little effect here, but probably more so than his continued presence.

Posting on Above Top Secret is not a protected right of free speech, it is a privilege extended by the owner and staff.

Regardless of your opinion of the quality of the edit applied to your post, the fact remains that an edit was warranted. Thomas is a moderator in good standing who's ability to moderate is beyond reproach.

The modification of posts that require edits will not stop as it applies to maintaining the standards of this community.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You still haven't figured out what censorship is, have you? And you still think that one can yell "Censorship!" and that means they should be excused for improper behavior in public, huh? You probably think that the Founding Fathers didn't fight and lose all, not for the ability to have the right to say what you want, even if it is to tell the king he has no clothes, but so that you can cuss and attack.
How sad. And your defense is to say that I am a sanctimonious prig, among other things. Yes, truly sad that society has devolved to this state.
Come, go, this is a choice. If you fear that you'll not be able to control yourself again and be treated like a child because of your childish behavior, you have little to fear, as I have less time for reading and even less time correcting vulgar little children's profanity and insults toward others.
That's all I have to say on the matter. You are making it a point to stray the thread from the original idea (censorship through manipulation) and I'll have no more part of it.

By the way, the chastisement was very much tongue in cheek and I thought that was evident to any rational man. Just so you'll know, I didn't inflict pain upon myself in order to pay the price for your transgressions.

Boomer, I understand your viewpoint on B-T, and it was my intention to monitor his assaults against people as well. Talk about censorship and the strangling of the flow of ideas, personal attacks cause many to not enter into the exchange of ideas because of that, no matter who is doing it. Many people will look in here and then move on if the place has the language of a bathroom wall, too. Unlike what Hollywood would have us believe, not everyone thinks filth is a natural and desirable environment.

[Edited on 5-1-2003 by Thomas Crowne]

cen-sor 1. one authorized films and printed material and supress what is objectionable

Being given the authority doesn't make you right. Had your cenorship simply changed a vulgar word, I would not have objected. Your poor excuse for censor ship changed far more than that. Don't worry, I'll not besmirch YOUR board with my filth any longer. I've already posted more than I wished, and I don't want to risk offending you any longer. Wait a minute...yes I do...blow me...


gone

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
I put my life on the line every day to ensure you have your right to free speech, and I cannot stomach self-righteous morons who have a superiority complex.

Given the display to date and the above declaration, the self loathing must be unbearable, no?
He doesn't need it, but in defense of Thomas Crowne....he did nothing wrong, he was cracking wise & being playful while doing his job; you just missed it. We are on different sides of the political spectrum on most things, but personal attacks don't substitute for debates of data & history and we've found out what most rational people discover; we've more in common than not.

As for me getting into the name calling school yard nonsense...I don't suffer fools gladly. If you speak to me in a certain fashion, I'll respond in kind. "going off" for thinking different than me? Hardly. Going off for responding to a logical data supported argument with unsubstantiated rhetoric, no supporting data and in a loquacious manner? Every time. You see Boomslang, the trouble with extremeist like A-R, is that people of a rational perspective are not going to 'sink' to his level and try with great futility to reel him back with reason ( as evidenced by the very calm/rational imploring to read the rules of posting, debate ideas and so forth that has been met with further beligerence). I know that the 'fire with fire' approach is the only way for certain types, else they highjack the threads with the nonsense you see here. You have better 'idols' of the Conservative stripe in Thomas or Bob who don't cross over into the Extreme Right Wing...at least not that much!
As for the idea that the US economy is 'adding' a half million jobs each week while losing a half million....no. It's easily researched, look it up.
While you are at it, look up the number of people who have exhausted their unemployment insurance. I don't know of too many warehouse managers who will hire an Applications Architect who used to make $90K a year for a $11/hr job, knowing full well he'll bolt when the economy gets on track.

Again not a single one of you addresses the real issue Taxes. The federal government confiscates entirerly too much money from the workforce of this country. The GOP and DNC both have handout on the brain they are too busy buying votes for the next election to worry about us lowly citizens. BT keeps talking about extending unempolyment handouts and tax cuts on payroll taxes (he seems to think its ok for low income employees to get their social security for free!!!). He is not alone this is the same DNC line we have been getting out of congress. Bush keeps on expanding the roll of government and its cost but also talks tax cut??
When will we see the federal government shrink? Im not talking about the so called shrink that the Clintoids said they would bring about ( only allowing the gov. to grow 2% in a year rather than 4%) I am talking about an honest to goodness whole sale house cleaning. I am talking eliminating agencys and redundent services and contracting out to private industry SHRINK THE GOVERNMENT Then we wouldnt need to have all those high taxes and double taxes and hidden taxes and estate taxes and excise taxes.
Just remember more money in the hands of consumers means they will spend or invest that money (we are talking about money they actually earned not gov. handouts) Also corperations do not pay taxes they pass them on to consumers or their stock holders. So reducing taxes across the board will lower prices and put more money in the hands of those who will be able to buy more with that money.

The problem with all the arguments are the obvious omission of all, that this "cyclical" economic depression (not a recession anymore folks) is that all of these lost jobs are being moved offshore.

And Bob is right, folks are gaining jobs but they've lost carreers and retirement accounts, and in its place they're forced to take a lesser job with minimal wages and benefits.

Point in fact: A good friend was laid off in October 2001 from my employer, a major electronics company. This man was a 32 year vet of this company, a mechanical engineer and a manager of a large T&M group here. After exhausting his unemployment benefits and unable to find a job that could replace his previous salary (& unwilling to uproot his family) he is now working as a handyman for a local winery for $10 an hour!!!!!

2nd case in point: another former co-worker, a 23 year vet of the T&M business and very fine electrical technician is now working as a janitor for a local newspaper. After searching for a tech job for 11 months he took what he could find when the unemployment benies ran out and he needs to feed his family too.

These are both highly trained, educated, and experienced guys who if in this situation 5 or 10 years ago, would have had multiple offers and a new job within a week or so. Whats the dfference now? Those jobs are now moving to offshore non-American companies that pay low wages and offer little or no benefits to its "slave labor".

So now we hear all of the conservatives drooling over the thought of the sadass "trickle down theory" being dusted off for one more time for the demolition of the American economic system yet again!!! How is offering tax breaks to those same companies that are sending high paying jobs to Malaysia, Singapore, and Taiwan going to help the American economy?

I'll tell ya, IT WILL NOT!!!! The rich fat cats get more duckets to line their already overflowing pockets and the rest of America will be working (if yer lucky) at McDonalds and BurgerKing, or like my friend you too can sweep floors and empty trash cans.

I for one will not stand for this abomination of our amazing manufacturing sector!!! Tell me why we should be happy to lose our well paying carreers to go to work in a fast food joint? The manufacturing machine that was America won 2 world wars as we supplied the Allies with all the supplies to defeat the enemy. Our new enemy is now some suit in corporate America who sees a bigger paycheck for themselves if they can layoff all the American workers and send the production to a country that does not consider things like a living wage to be important.

Maybe some of you think this will only affect the old and poor, but this conspiricy by the GOP (grand ole prostitutes) to make America the new third world is the BIG ONE we always discuss as the grand outcome of the NWO!!! I find it almost humorous that the right-wingers think it all so dandy now since its one of their own whose leading us all to slaughter!!!

Enjoy your moralistic prez and all his corporate cronies who will benefit from his tax breaks!! I find all that has gone on since shrub took office much more disturbing than any oval office BJ that took place when Bill was keeping an eye out for us little guys!!

Hey Harrier
I dont want to sound like an ass here but I found myself in a similar situation 4 years ago I worked for an electronics company that was moving all its manufacturing jobs to Mexico I survived a layoff so what did I do I quit the company I got some more experence and went to work for the Telephone company. Point is it is not up to your employer to look out for you or for him to make sacrifices I work Nights and weekends and do not get to spend alot of time with my toddler son but I do this to support my family so my wife only has to work part time and can spend alot of time with our son. You said one thing in your story about the friend at the winery "....or uproot his family" this is a decision your friend made he decided that keeping his family in its current environment is more important than moving to where the jobs are!! He may have made the right decision I dont know but he has to live with the decisions he made right or wrong. You cant blast Bush because your factory is moving jobs. The whole of the US economy has been slowly evolving into a service econmoy not a manufacturing economy. It is up to the individual worker to make the choices and sacrafice to get trained and make themselves a product some company wants which will land them a job. Get yourself into a posistion to provide a service someone wants and you will be viable and will have work. Lets face it this is evolution of the market as manufacturing jobs move overseas they create work in those countries which means higher wages for those people and a higher standared of living. Good for them. Our economy transforms into a more information/service related market and we go on about our business.

Bottom?
You could have changed it to something better than that!

Does anyone think that the fact that everything sold in the big retail stores is made in China, is taking jobs away from americans?

Or is it just me.