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Interesting thoughts on Masons

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posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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I read something last night passed on to me from a friend regarding the Masons, and I have to say I found it very intriguing. I've also seen how this forum is so I am no way going to get in a pissing contest with anyone and would only be willing to discuss it calmly and rationaly as that is my style. Happy reading

Online link:
www.scribd.com...

Downloadable link:
www....(nolink)/?mt0uwyeydhd




posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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First - this is the same guy who spent his time here promoting his last "book" - which is not a book at all, but merely an amalgamation and summary job of the most inane conspiracy theories possible offered by other people. The OP is either the same guy, or that guy is now using surrogates to promote his "work." The guy is desperately trying to gain some attention to be the next famous conspiracy theorist, and I think he believes he can do that by offering the most absurd theories possible against masonry - and given the nature of most claims by conspiracy theorists, they would have to be (and are, as the link shows) pretty outrageous.

Its rather hard to "expose" freemasons since I has - as of yet - never heard of any mason who was actively hiding their masonic membership.

However, a cursory look at the "book" shows it to be your pretty standard anti-mason list that accuses just about everyone as being a mason - even women which simply cannot be masons under a regular lodge.

Its also pretty standard anti-mason propaganda trying to link the Vatican to masonry, when any actual research into the matter will show theres no way that connection is ever happening. Masonry may not currently care what the Vatican thinks, but there are enough historically hostile relations between the two institutions to make any much hoped for diabolical cabal completely impossible.

In sum...it just looks like a better formatted version of freemasonrywatch. Same accusations, no proof or reasoning.

[edit on 10-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by Universal Light
 


EXCELLENT POST, Universal Light


Of course, we will probably soon, see freemason's '' Knights '' fight back
to defend their religious cult.

NOW, Take a look at Freemason reactions to this thread, read carefully
their propaganda and Rhetoric, you will realised their will to HIDE, the
light of truth over their heads, AND THEIR WILL, TO MANIPULATE PROFANES
( LIKE THEY CALL US ) to keep you all into the darkness of ignorance.

I downloaded the documents, and i will read it all, because, it really look
interesting.

Thanks

PEACE



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


I respect your opinion. However, I am not him and he is a friend of mine. I am not a spammer of his. I will not run around spamming anything. But if I do read something that I find interesting, I will post it here. I've posted the same link in several places regarding other topics as I've felt fit so these accusations are merely that.

I do not understand how you can comment without reading it through. Sounds assumptuous to me. What I found to be interesting was the mass amount of correlations that were presented that are so numerous, I don't know how I can dismiss it all as coincidence.

Peace



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


There are none so blind as those who desperately want to see something when, in fact, nothing exists...



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:28 PM
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So Freight Tomsen's been post banned from ATS for less than a month, and he already has a new book.

90 pages that show that the middle and ring fingers of just about any human do not have complete independence and will likely be in the same position or grouped together. That's proof of specific physiology—NOT of any conspiracy.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Universal Light
 


I do find it interesting that you apparently think its good enough to read the entire thing, and yet do not find that its good enough to do a quick google search to find out if any of the claims are true? Or if any evidence even suggests they are true? This is why I smell a surrogate...

I don't need to carefully read 90 pages to know when something is made up. Just like you don't need to read the Taxil Hoax page for page to know it was made up. I can look through it, see that these are the exact same sort of wild accusations without proof made up by freemasonrywatch and other anti-masons, and know that what we have here is yet another attempt at self-promotion. I can also (and have) googled some of the men in here accused of being masons that were at least a possibility (over 18, and male) - all them came up as a no. And especially since we know very well who the masons are in Hollywood, there is no reason to believe these people would hide their membership.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Universal Light
I do not understand how you can comment without reading it through.
I stopped reading picture books when I was 5...


I don't know how I can dismiss it all as coincidence.
OK, try this. Pick a hand, either hand. Try wiggling your middle finger up and down without moving any of your other fingers. Can you do it? If not, which other finger tends to move more at the same time, the ring or the index? For me, and almost everyone I've met, it's the ring finger. The only people I've ever met with truly independent finger control were professional musicians who'd spent years developing that finger independence.

So by the standards of proof that you find plausible, you're saying everyone BUT professional musicians with that skill must be part of a conspiracy.

Welcome to the club.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by Universal Light
 


Hi Universal.

The author that you have linked to has been refuted on ATS many times, and actually got himself banned.

He also did not exactly "write" a book, so much as spend way to much time on ATS and compiled every possible conspiracy into one very long winded rant.

His knowledge of Freemasonry is also inadequate to be considered research ..

There are many official Masonic sites, or you could read through Masonic postings on ATS to see how Masons really think and believe.. ultimately the best way to find out is to join a lodge for your self.

I don't expect you to automatically to believe me or any other Mason, it's our own fault the public is wary of us.. but I do hope you will be able to read some things and understand that there is a difference between fiction and non-fiction. See between true propaganda.. some people are filled with hate to the point it's almost hysteria.. don't become one of those.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 



Actually, I've been researching Masons for a while so this in no way shaped my opinion. What it did do was open things up to other possibilities. That's the thing here, I did not offer this as proof. I offered it as an interesting read. I post in the hopes of mental expansion not persuasions. I believe in the law of free will. I also believe google is a horrible source for the truth.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Universal Light
I also believe google is a horrible source for the truth.


Google is a tool to be employed in the discovering of truth just as any media can be employed by the discriminating user for such purposes.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 



And I knew this repsonse was coming as truthfully, when I started reading it, I thought the exact same thing. But there's too many poses of the same thing over and over. Also, the whole premise is not derived around that one concept.

Please do not put words in my mouth considering what I regard to be proof as I have not spoken to my opinion on that. If you really want what I consider to be standards of proof, I believe there's no such thing. Proof cannot exist imo because everything initially derived from someone's imagination.

Also, please do not put words into my mouth regarding what I think to be a conspiracy as I haven't commented on that either.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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Well mate, I don't know what you wanted. If all you wanted was for people to read and agree, I think your in the wrong place. I believe Freight even lost face with anti masons as well as Masons.

I do believe he is responsible for 2 ATS members deciding to join Freemasonry though, so I don't hold it against him.


Sometimes people see bigotry for what it is, and decide what side they would rather be associated with.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Thank you for your tone. This is much more how I'd rather discuss things. I appreciate your opinion and again, I only put forth an offering of an expansion of possibility. My tone has no negative connotation and am not here to cause problems. In fact, I encourage you to post some findings contradictory to what the link says. I am all for open discussion as that is the way we should be.

What does strike me though is that your Masonic brothers bring forth replies of hostility and yes people have come into this forum and trampled Masons. I get it. But I never have, and I will not engage in what could potentially be the truth when it's shrouded in anger. As much as people have said bad things about the Masons here, there are advocates of support and it's up to the reader to make their own decision. I'm only up for the discussion of all that is possible.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


And that's your opinion and I repsect it. You cannot say what is and what isn't. It's not reasonable to speak absolutes like this. And this is just my opinion as well.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Universal Light
And I knew this repsonse was coming as truthfully, when I started reading it, I thought the exact same thing. But there's too many poses of the same thing over and over. Also, the whole premise is not derived around that one concept.
Perhaps not, but Eric does himself a great disservice if he wants anyone to take him seriously and he continues to fill his books with these meaningless photos. For starters, there are only so many positions the human hand can possibly form under normal circumstances. Additionally, he's selectively editing to only show those photos which he believes support his claims. It's ludicrous and makes him look like a fool, rendering any textual argument he might have to make easily dismissed.

Please do not put words in my mouth considering what I regard to be proof as I have not spoken to my opinion on that. If you really want what I consider to be standards of proof, I believe there's no such thing. Proof cannot exist imo because everything initially derived from someone's imagination.

Also, please do not put words into my mouth regarding what I think to be a conspiracy as I haven't commented on that either.
Fair enough, and I apologize if I was quick to lump you with your peers. I fought Eric's lies enough while he was here, and wasn't looking forward to the possibility that his tactics might be resurfacing through a new channel. Glad to hear I was wrong.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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Well don't forget.. we have our organization attacked daily, 24/7 .. it should not be surprising the level of hostility.

And if you hadn't noticed, Masonry is a very big part of our lives. If something so important to YOU would YOU not have automatic hostility?

It's a nasty side effect of being a Freemason on a conspiracy board.


But anyways..

The biggest thing Freight likes to push is that all world leaders are Freemasons .. just look at his pictures, catching World Leaders supposedly acting like Masons.

In reality, it is very easy to find out who is, and is not a Mason .. no World Leader is a Freemason at the moment, and we are very proud of past leaders who where Freemasons. For instance the last Freemason to be President was Gerald Ford. Clinton was a Demolay, but never an actual Freemason.

I would go as far as to say we flaunt the famous Freemasons because it gets more attention to our group.

Most conspiracy theories are a very, very big stretch. Some not so much, and often it's how you perceive the given scenario .. but for the most part, almost everything freight says in his book is utter garbage that holds no weight what so ever.

Not all conspiracies involving Masonry though. Some can be debated. I just wouldn't put hope into his work.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Universal Light
 


I think a further analogy would be to decry the Dewey Decimal system as a 'horrible source for the truth' owing to the fact that novels, childrens books, and other emphemeral literature are included in its categorizing. One must sift through the chaff to find the kernels of truth, whether you are utilizing an internet search function or your local public library.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 

***********************************************************

Like Scientology they try to recrut important person, politician and
ACTORS FROM HOLLYWOOD to manipulate the mass opinion on
their '' CULT '' to gain power on the society.

Once Again, great Post, Universal Light


***********************************************************


Man,...I am sory to contradict you but, a friend of mine, whose father is a
freemason, introduce me to 3 former freemason, ex friends of my father's friend

They all told me man, that, they got in freemasonery because, being all in
buseness, they have been told, that lobying opportunity are great for
freemason members, so they got involve get even ritcher, and then, one
of them, wakeup the other two, on the brainwashing going on on lodges
everything, are reliate to freemasonry teaching, and activities and
friendship are promote to be between freemason and to be mistrustful of
profanes ( like they call us )

All of them told me that he lost a lot of buseness when they left, , but
all of them does not regret it at all, because, they realized that Freemason
is indeed a religious '' CULT ''

Man, Freemason is the most dangerous cult because members are even less
aware of the cult brainwashing techniques because it is hidden behind
a fraternal structured instead of regular cult who publicly show themselves
as a religion.

That is a very smart BRAINWASHING technique to even easier indoctrinate
members.

I hope thread like this one, will help SOME freemasons to wakeup
and be aware that they have been manipulated and mislead.

The majority of freemason are just innocent victims, instead
of fighting each other’s we should try help them, use their
command sense and realised what is REALLY, Freemasonry


NOW, Take a look at Freemason reactions to this thread, read carefully their
*** Propaganda and Rhetoric ***, you will realised their will to HIDE, the
light of truth over their heads, to keep you all into the darkness of ignorance.

*** freemasonry is a religious '' CULT ''. *** PERIOD..!



2 Movies on the masons both a must watch

Secret Mysteries of America’s Beginnings





Peace Man



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Universal Light
If you really want what I consider to be standards of proof, I believe there's no such thing. Proof cannot exist imo because everything initially derived from someone's imagination.


Relativism is popular among masonic conspiracies because its about the only way the people who propose them can make them work - by completely changing any reasonable standard for what constitutes proof.

Unfortunately, this is a logical fallacy. In order for "proof to not exist" all things would have to be relative, and if all things were relative your statement that "everything is initially derived from someone's imagination" is also relative (ie, not a logical tautology.) The entire fallacy then blows up.



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