Swastika is of special significance in the traditions on 2 seperate continents

Swastika is of special significance on 2 continents

So we see that in both the spiritual traditions of the Native American Hopi people and the spiritual traditions in India, China and Tibet, the construct of the Swastika is funadamental to their philosophy and teachings.

This is a strong indication that both these people's spiritual traditions are related to each other. Yet how could that be if they are on opposite sides of the world and according to scientific theories on how civlization progressed they shouldn't be related to each other? Even the language of the Tibetan people is very similar to the language of the Hopi people.

And then, I believe even the Dalai Lama himself, the foremost expert on Tibetan spiritual traditions, has admitted the Tibetan People and Hopi people are closely related and their traditions are related somehow.

It's pretty obvious that the Hopi and Tibetan traditions share a common ancestor tradition that existed in a lost pre-historic culture, and when it was destroyed, some survivors became the Hopi in america, and some became Asians in Asia.

The Hopi Prophecy
www.youtube.com...

Hopi Petroglyphs
www.youtube.com...

Info on Hopi Prophecy
www.clearwisdom.net...
www.crystalinks.com...

Near Oraibi, Arizona, there is a petroglyph known as Prophecy Rock that symbolizes many Hopi prophecies said to be over 10,000 years old. Hopi is an ancient Indian village. Their ancestors passed down many prophecies on the origin, history and future of mankind. They did not use scripts but passed them down by word of mouth from generation to generation. In the 1950's, the prophecies were made public in English for the first time. Due to the remote history, hardly any one can provide an appropriate explanation of the leftmost radiating circle and the swastika in the center. Some websites even removed the left part and only explained the center part. The following is a summary of the past interpretations of the Prophecy Rock.

The time scale starts from the left to right and is in thousands of years along the horizontal direction. The swastika in the sun on the left side represents the origin of the universe. The large human figure on the left is the Great Spirit. The Top Line represents the path of white man's path of science and technology without any spirituality to balance it; the bottom line represents a spiritual path in harmony with nature. There are three vertical lines. The first line is the beginning time of the prophecy.

Each circle represents a cycle of life's annihilation and renewal. The leftmost small circle refers to the annihilation of humanity at the beginning of this cycle of civilization. It may match the "Great Flood" described in legend.

The bar between the paths, above the cross, is the coming of white men (the Cross is that of Christianity). It also shows a time when mankind decides which path to follow, materialism or spiritualism. The four small human figures on the upper road represent, on one level, the past three worlds and the present; on another level, the figures indicate that mankind will travel the white man's path, having been seduced by the glamour of its civilization on the surface. The two circles on the bottom line represent the first and second World Wars. The heavy dark vertical line at the end is the decision time for which path to follow, which is today. It represents the last chance for humanity to turn back to nature before the scientific road disintegrates and dissipates. If the material path is followed, as represented by the top horizontal line, the result is a very jagged line that will result in destruction. If the lower spiritual path is followed, the result will be peace and harmony.

The small circle after the last chance is the Great Purification, after which corn will grow in abundance again, the Great Spirit will return, and the Path of Life will continue forever...

Here's a really interesting article
www.think-aboutit.com...

Some articles about practitioners who knew the Hopi prophecies and who now practice in Falun Dafa.
www.pureinsight.org...
www.pureinsight.org...

The Falun
www.youtube.com...
www.falundafa.org...
www.falundafa.org...

Some more about the swaztika in general
www.goddessmystic.com...
www.hindubooks.org...
www.clearwisdom.net...
www.clearwisdom.net...

This, plus the finding of Egyptian hieroglyphs in Australia, is one of a multitude of phenomena that all points to the ancient texts as being correct in that there were (are) stargates being used by pharaohs, em porers etc.....

Some believe the war in Iraq (ancient civilization of Sumer) is over a stargate buried in tons of sand.

reply to post by Hollywood11


Very interesting. Starred and flagged.

I have read a few books on Atlantis and Lemuria. If I remember correctly the refuges from Atlantis went to North America and Asia. It would explain the connection of the symbol.

Hence the reverse Swastika was used by Adolf Hitler who was a practicing Occultist and so used in reverse configuration in his attempt at world domination through all levels of existence. Hence his understandings of the Order of Vril and its associated understandings,
"What is above so shall it be below."
Hitler even had an expedition organised that went to Tibet in 1939 to better understand the things of the other inner World levels.
Though with all the relics of Ancient Civilisations, famous and not so well known, from this planet and from others. that he ahd accumalated and with all the occult powers that he had mastered. In the end he was still only a clanging bell as he had no love and was only interested in STS(Service to Separation) and not to STO( Service to Oneness) and so was caught up in the illusion of nothingness.

Oh yeah, i'm sure there are reasons for Hitler using this symbol that most people are not aware of.

I think he knew that in the future the truth would be taught to mankind and he wanted to slander this great symbol so that people would be afraid of teachings based on it.

Originally posted by Hollywood11
Swastika is of special significance on 2 continents

So we see that in both the spiritual traditions of the Native American Hopi people and the spiritual traditions in India, China and Tibet, the construct of the Swastika is funadamental to their philosophy and teachings.

Uhm... well... no.

In the REAL Hopi traditions, the swastika is a representation of the journey they were told to make when they came into America. The clans began at a central point and moved to different locations (the Water Coyote society led the way for at least one group.)
en.wikipedia.org...

In Hinduism, it represents the evolution of the universe: en.wikipedia.org...

In Buddhism it represents eternity (same reference above)

This is a strong indication that both these people's spiritual traditions are related to each other. Yet how could that be if they are on opposite sides of the world and according to scientific theories on how civlization progressed they shouldn't be related to each other?

Their spiritual traditions really aren't that closely linked. They're both forms of animism and shamanism, but that's where the similarity falls apart.

Even the language of the Tibetan people is very similar to the language of the Hopi people.

The two languages aren't even close to each other. Tibetan is a monosyllable tonic language: www.krysstal.com...

Hopi is a Uto-Aztecan language and is not a tonal language and has words made up of many syllables (up to six):
www.nvtc.gov...

The "Hopi Prophecy" (there are several) is actually a modern "prophecy".

Hopi Petroglyphs
www.youtube.com...

Prophecy Rock isn't a Hopi petroglyph. It's a relatively modern forgery (image here for those of you who don't want to suffer through some video):
www.bluestarlove.com...

Near Oraibi, Arizona, there is a petroglyph known as Prophecy Rock that symbolizes many Hopi prophecies said to be over 10,000 years old.

The Hopi, as a separate tribe, are only about 6,000 years old. 10,000 years ago there were no Hopi.

Hopi is an ancient Indian village.

Noooo... they're a Native American tribe and they have a number of villages.

In the 1950's, the prophecies were made public in English for the first time.

Judging from the clarity of the marks and the color of the stone, that's about the time that the graffiti was put up on "Prophecy Rock."

The large human figure on the left is the Great Spirit.

Actually, that one comment is one of the ways you know it's not a genuine ancient story. The Hopi did not believe in a "Great Spirit" until after they came into contact with Europeans.

As someone who studies and photographs rock art, this "prophecy rock" is an insult to the Hopi people. They make magnificent and complex designs, and it's very unlike that horrible graffiti.

For those of you who would like to click and compare, here's the "Prophecy Rock" graffiti:
i29.tinypic.com...
www.thedreammasters.org...

And THIS is what real Hopi rock art looks like. Notice the complex body design:
www.world-mysteries.com...

These are done within the past 200 years (and are clan markings) :
www.bebutler.com...

Shamanistic Hopi rock art:
www.getty.edu...

This page isn't entirely Hopi, but you can get a feel for what real rock art looks like (versus modern graffiti.) www.sesnw.com...

Originally posted by Byrd
Uhm... well... no.

In the REAL Hopi traditions, the swastika is a representation of the journey they were told to make when they came into America. The clans began at a central point and moved to different locations (the Water Coyote society led the way for at least one group.)

In Hinduism, it represents the evolution of the universe:

In Buddhism it represents eternity (same reference above)

First of all, it has been made pretty clear the the REAL Hopi tradition is the one passed down through Thomas Banayanca and the Hopi Elders.

Now.....your agrument's ridicuousness is exposed because you took it too far. I mean, you aren't seriously trying to claim that Hinduism and Buddhism aren't related are you? Hinduism certainly influenced buddhism as we now know it today. One example of the relation bewtween the teachings of the Bagavad gita for example and the teachings of Buddhism is that they both share similar, though not exactly the same, definitions of the idea of Karma.

Just as Hinduism has a relation to buddhism, so is the original Hopi tradition related to buddhism and hinduism but just a little bit more distantly related.

The different peoples or "clans" of the Hopi closely correlate to the origins of people explained by Edgar Cayce as well

Their spiritual traditions really aren't that closely linked. They're both forms of animism and shamanism, but that's where the similarity falls apart.

Terms like "shamanism" and "Animism" and western concepts used by historians or anthropolgists and incapable of conveying what ancient traditions are about.

What the Hopi tradition is really about is raising ones conciousness, and getting across the message that the time of Purification is the time we are entering now today. It's not about rituals ans superstitions like anthropologists think all ancient people believed in.

However, even using those low level anthropological concepts, there is alot more similarity

Even before most westerners knew where Tibet was, much less what their situation was, and almost twenty years before the advent of the Tibetan Diaspora, cultural affinities between these two peoples were noted by Frank Waters in his landmark work, Book of the Hopi (1963). Waters' analysis went below the surface, citing corresponding systems of chakras or energy spots within the body meridians that were used to cultivate cosmic awareness. In The Masked Gods, a book about Pueblo and Navajo ceremonialism published in 1950, Waters observed that the ZuÒi Shalako dance symbolically mirrored the Tibetan journey of the dead. "To understand [the Shalako dance's] meaning, we must bear in mind all that we have learned of Pueblo and Navaho [sic] eschatology and its parallels found in the Bardo Thodal, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, in The Secret of the Golden Flower, the Chinese Book of Life, and in the Egyptian Book of the Dead."

The two languages aren't even close to each other. Tibetan is a monosyllable tonic language:

Hopi is a Uto-Aztecan language and is not a tonal language and has words made up of many syllables (up to six):

In 12,000 years it is expected the languages will evolve away from each other and change. However, in language certain words are quite fundamental to ancient people and change less. 2 very important words are "sun" and "moon". "Dawa" is moon in Tibet, sun in Hopi.

Tibeten Word for Moon, "Dawa"
en.wikipedia.org...

Hopi word of Sun "Taawa"
www.native-languages.org...

Sun and Moon and very fundamental words to ancient people

The "Hopi Prophecy" (there are several) is actually a modern "prophecy".

Then why do the Hopi elders and the inheriter of the Hopi tradition Thomas Banayanca say it is the same as their ancient oral traditions which are passed down with the strictest methods of insuring the oral traditons never change over the generations?

Prophecy Rock isn't a Hopi petroglyph. It's a relatively modern forgery (image here for those of you who don't want to suffer through some video):

How is it a forgery? The content proves it's authenticity. Regardless of who you think carved it or when it was carved, the content can easily be shown here to be ancient.

The Hopi, as a separate tribe, are only about 6,000 years old. 10,000 years ago there were no Hopi.

Uhhhh, they didn't come out of no where, they didn't miraculously grow out of the dirt 6000 years ago.

The spiritual tradition and the prophecy was structured 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age. The people now known as the Hopi were refugees who then came to america.

Judging from the clarity of the marks and the color of the stone, that's about the time that the graffiti was put up on "Prophecy Rock."

The content is proven to be the true Hopi spiritual tradition and the prophecies are so far accurate.

Actually, that one comment is one of the ways you know it's not a genuine ancient story. The Hopi did not believe in a "Great Spirit" until after they came into contact with Europeans.

Apparently they did. Of course they knew of the Great Spirit and literally had contact with it. The great spirit of nature was not a belief to them, they had contact with it in ways modern people don't. They called their creator "Taowa". However, what is going on here, is that the Europeans called it "God" and the "Holy Spirit" and the Hopi people just realized that they also had a parallel idea in their tradition that could be approximated to it. They didn't take the idea from the Europeans, they just explain it to them now that way.

As someone who studies and photographs rock art, this "prophecy rock" is an insult to the Hopi people. They make magnificent and complex designs, and it's very unlike that horrible graffiti.

They don't seem to be offended by it, so why do you speak for them? The Elders and authentic lineage holders say that it accurately portrays their spiritual traditions. Even if you think you know about dating when something is carved, the content here is what proves the prophecy rock.




[edit on 14-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

More about where the Hopi people really came from
www.atlantis.to...

...Cultures the world over, who don’t have a specific legend of Atlantis, still have stories of a great flood that destroyed most life, (which happen to be very similar to the story of the sinking, and flooding of Atlantis). Descriptions of the destruction of Atlantis, say it involved great earthquakes and volcanic upheavals, and the actual sinking of the entire land mass. So perhaps some legends of a great flood could have come from secondary flooding, that resulted from unimaginably gigantic tsunami waves generated by an event that was the greatest geological disaster in history (like the one most scientists say caused the extinction of the dinosaurs). Such waves could have swept the globe, flooding many, if not most, parts of the world, and eruptions could have darkened the sky, and created other disastrous ecological consequences.

The various cultural stories of the “great flood” often tell a tale of refugees who managed to escape the great disaster. Some legends, like those of the Hopi tribe, describe the Hopi as such refugees. They depict the Hopi escaping the calamity, and coming to their new land on “Giant flying tortoise shells”. It is said that once they arrived, they were led to safety from an environment gone mad, by a bird headed “Kachina” who guided them to underground passages.

They were rescued at the last minute. During the destruction of Atlantis they almost perished but Thoth rescued them with his terrestial airship and brought them to america. The "flying tortoise shells" in their petroglyphs and pictographs are actually Thoth's ships.

So what're you trying to say, hollywood11?

That two seperate religions with similar precepts and identities came to be on their own, without exterior assistance?

It doesn't sound quite as far fetched as you're attempting to illustrate.

Although, of course, your posts are mired in hidden meanings and points that serve to distract one from the actual point of this topic.

Can we get back on topic, please?

I'd like to hear more about the similarities between the Hopi and Buddhist practises.

If you're just going to focus on how you think that there was some sort of early multi-national empire that pre-dated the known mesopotamias, then i'm afraid you're probably going to need a bit more solid evidence than what you have currently provided.

More about what the Hopi have learned in their communion with the Great Spirit
www.rexresearch.com...

7. Hopi Prophecy ~

In the course of their communion with the Great Spirit, native Americans have received many visions of the destiny of North American civilization. The largest number of such prophesies have been preserved by the Hopi in Arizona. Their community of Oraibi is the oldest continually inhabited settlement (about 1,000 years) in North America. The name Hopi is derived from Hopitu Shinumu ("Peaceful [or: Righteous] People").

The Hopi believe that the human race has evolved through three world stages of life since its origin. Each of these worlds was destroyed in turn, and human life was purified and nearly ended by the Great Spirit because of man’s corruption and greed. (3)

In the Hopi cosmology, the universe at first was only infinite blackness in the mind of Taiowa, the Creator. Taiowa made Sotuknang, the first man, and commanded him to order the cosmos. On the first day, Sotuknang divided the universe into nine worlds. One world was reserved for Taiowa, one was for Man, and seven were for future worlds. The present is the Fourth World.

Topkela was the first and most beautiful of the worlds. There, humanity thrived in harmony with Nature in the company of animals. But the Snake spoke and seduced Man away from Taiowa the Creator. Seeing this, Taiowa ordered Satuknang to destroy Tokpela and its inhabitants, except for a few "children of pure heart" whom he sheltered in the center of the Earth when he rained fire upon the planet and burned the sky. The people stayed underground while volcanoes erupted. Afterwards, the people emerged and moved into the second world, Topka, which was less beautiful than the first. There, men lived in huts, learned crafts, and drew apart from Nature. Eventually they became greedy, materialistic, and insatiable as before. Taiowa again ordered Sotuknang to destroy the humans and the world they had ruined. The faithful few again hid underground with the Ant People. The earth rolled over twice, and everything on it was destroyed by ice, which covered everything. After the ice had melted enough to make the world inhabitable, the survivors emerged into the third world, Kuskurza. There, man built cities and tall buildings, and departed further still from the Creator’s nature, becoming very evil. Kuskurza in turn was destroyed by flood. (4-6)

When the Hopi’s ancestors emerged from the underworld, they met the demigod Maasaw, who owns this world. Maasaw had been caretaker of the Third World, but because of his pride, he had been demoted to become the god of death. When Kuskurza was destroyed, Taiowa gave Maasaw another chance and appointed him to be the guardian of this world. The people asked Maasaw for permission to live in the new land of Turtle Island (North America).

Maasaw said, "It is up to you, whether you are willing to live my poor, humble and simple life. It is hard, but if you are willing to live according to my teachings and instructions and will never lose faith in the life I shall give you, you may come and live with me. Now you look at me. I am a poor man. I have almost nothing: I have only my planting stick, my seed corn, and a jug of water. I live a simple life. If you wish to live with me, you must sacrifice many things. If you want me for your leader, your chief, you must prove that you can live this way of life.

"Now look around. See this land. It is poor land. There is not much water and very few trees. But this is the richest land. There is great wealth under. But hear this warning -- you are not to disturb this land and take this wealth out as long as there is still war going on. If you do, these things will be used to destroy life and this will not be your salvation...

"Never disturb this land. Do not cede your land to anyone; don’t ever give it away. Above all, it is to provide your nourishment. Hold this land dear like a mother as long as you live. If you sell it you will no longer reap crops. Be prepared: one after another people will approach you and put you to the test in this matter.

"If, in addition, you are willing to adopt the religion which I practice, you will derive further benefits for your life... But you have arrived with great ambitions and expectations. When you fall into your evil ways again, you will make me weep...

"All right, you have settled in a desert, yet the land is filled with riches. You reside on the very backbone of the earth. All kinds of precious things are buried in this earth. There exists a storehouse of treasures underground but you must not dig them up yet.

"Three times big war will rage. Should you excavate these treasures while the killing is taking place, powerful weapons will be forged from them and people will be slain by them. If you act on your own in this matter, you will do wrong. Not before the day of purification has been completed, may you unearth these things. At that time people will benefit from them. However, if these wars ever take place here, don’t pick up your weapons, and don’t engage in the business of killing..."

The people asked Maasaw to be their leader, but he declined. "No, he said. "A greater one than I has given you a plan to fulfill first. When the previous parts of the world were pushed underwater, this new land was pushed up in the middle to become the backbone of the earth. You are now standing on its west side slope. But you have not yet made your migrations. You have not yet followed your stars to the place where you will meet and settle. This you must do before I can become your leader. But if you go back to evil ways again I will take over the earth from you, for I am its caretaker, guardian, and protector... So go now and claim the land with my permission."

Maasaw then placed four different colors and sizes of corn before the leaders of the four different racial groups, and had each one choose which would be their food in this world. The Hopi were the last to choose, and they picked the smallest ear of multi-colored corn. Pleased by their choice, Maasaw said:

"It is well done. You have chosen the real corn, for all the others are imitations inside of which are hidden seeds of different plants. You have shown me your intelligence; for this reason I will place in your hands these owa tutuveni [sacred stone tablets], symbols of power and authority over all land and life to guard, protect, and hold in trust for me until I return to you in a later day, for I am the first, but I am also going to be the last."

One of the three Bear Clan tablets describes the land from the Grand Canyon to the Rio Grande, which was granted by Maasaw to the Hopis. Another tablet is inscribed with mnemonic symbols of prophecies. A third tablet maps the allocations of farmland to the various clans, and delegates leadership to the Bear Clan. The fourth tablet is a very precise map of the location of the Sipaapuni, the great underground city where the Hopi ancestors hid during the destruction of the past worlds. (Figs. 2, 3)

Images


Connections here not only with ancient jusdaism ( snake seduces mankind), but with eastern religions( destruction and re-formation of the universe), and Edgar Cayce ( the original 4 or 5 races of man).

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
So what're you trying to say, hollywood11?

That two seperate religions with similar precepts and identities came to be on their own, without exterior assistance?

This would indicate they have to have shared a common ancestor tradition

If you're just going to focus on how you think that there was some sort of early multi-national empire that pre-dated the known mesopotamias, then i'm afraid you're probably going to need a bit more solid evidence than what you have currently provided.

How else would you explain the fact that the traditions on 2 seperate continents are related to each other and share a common ancestor tradition?

reply to post by Hollywood11


With one word;

Exodus.

Perhaps the ancient Hopi are the survivors of the Bonpo religion that preceded Buddhism in Tibet, or vice versa.

Remember the rules of archeaology;

If you find an ancient Roman coin in a field in Kansas, that doesn't mean the Romans discovered America.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
With one word;

Exodus.

Perhaps the ancient Hopi are the survivors of the Bonpo religion that preceded Buddhism in Tibet, or vice versa.

That's still convoluted though, and it is only more believable to you because it doesn't require your pre-concieved beliefs about the past and what is written in textbooks to be wrong.

The evidence of the Hopi and Tibetan connection though is completely in line with all the evidence around the world for the existence of prehistoric civlizations however.

Here is a video talking about the Hopi tradition, the great spirit, the cycles of destruction and renewal which is the same as eastern religions and has the same meaning as YHVH and the "6 days" of the bible, and the impact columbus had on the native americans.
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

more petroglyohs, they look like they could be a different style than the prophecy rock, but then they could possibly be the ones that are thousands of years newer, no one can say for sure, some of these ones even look like they are showing dinosaurs
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

wow look at these ancient native american petroglyphs, at the 2:10 point of this video it shows a chinese Taoist Taiji symbol in the petroglyphs explaining the creation of the universe
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

Originally posted by Hollywood11

Here is a video talking about the Hopi tradition, the great spirit, the cycles of destruction and renewal which is the same as eastern religions and has the same meaning as YHVH and the "6 days" of the bible, and the impact columbus had on the native americans.
www.youtube.com...

Look, it's all well and good being able to throw out information which has nothing to do with what i asked whenever you feel it's nessecary, but what exactly are you going to do with this knowledge?

The only thing you really can do is put together a study and show it to a university professor, unless you have the means to publish your findings yourself.

You aren't helping matters just by churning out information, you need to take the initative and take action.

Originally posted by Hollywood11


That's still convoluted though, and it is only more believable to you because it doesn't require your pre-concieved beliefs about the past and what is written in textbooks to be wrong.

Last i checked, that was called being 'realistic'.

Is it truly nessecary for you to try and grab for the biggest theory out there?

You're grasping for things out of your reach.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
Last i checked, that was called being 'realistic'.

The sole justification of your theory is that you deem it "realisitc" because it doesn't prove many conventional theories wrong. You haven't mentioned any evidence of it.

I however have provided evidence for a common ancestor to hinduism buddhism and hopi.

reply to post by Hollywood11


And now you've turned all pedantic because i've sank your battleship.

awwww.

Another site talking about some meaning that the swastika began to take on as the Hopi people's conciousness evolved through the years. It is also an important sybol that will be carried by the man "Pahana", a spiritual brother from another land who is to come to america around this time.

The man who would come to the Hopi right before Pahana, and the man who would help Pahana is prophesized by the Hopi as having his own religon based on the Swastika and the swastika would be his symbol
www.book-of-thoth.com...


[edit on 6-7-2008 by Hollywood11]