I have become interested in spiritualism in the last two years and anyhow, I just had a thought. If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations. I understand the suicide rate is high on the reservations. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by TgSoe
I have become interested in spiritualism in the last two years and anyhow, I just had a thought. If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations. I understand the suicide rate is high on the reservations. Any thoughts?

There sprit and beliefs have benn shattered. But everything happens for a reason. The one's who stick to there beliefs are truly the strong ones. Black people had no chance to keep there beleifs there language, names, and culture was striped form them. But what ever dosn't kill you mates you stronger

Originally posted by TgSoe
I have become interested in spiritualism in the last two years and anyhow, I just had a thought. If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations. I understand the suicide rate is high on the reservations. Any thoughts?

There's a number of things, here:

The Indians weren't defeated by lining up holy men on each side and proclaiming their spirituality. They were defeated by technology and coordinated influx of societies that were much larger. Individual nations of tribes were never that strong in numbers compared to the Europeans (and the vast numbers they could and did ship over from other countries.)

The suicide rate has a lot to do with the living conditions and the forcing of culture down their throat. Suppose you and everyone you knew were hauled off to a wilderness concentration camp -- no food except what you grew, no roads, no electricity, in the middle of the African desert, in a country where no one spoke your language, and your area was guarded and administered by thugs who raped your women, took your weapons, beat you and your friends at every chance, stole program money and supplies, and gave you bad medical care while forcing their religion down your throat. Suppose this group of people also stole your children, forced them to attend THEIR schools and convert to THEIR religion and then (nicely indocrinated) sent your children back to live with you when they were nearly adults. Add to that no jobs, no income, and the society's belief that you were some sort of quaint zoo animal, fit to gawk at but not to participate in society.

Ya think folks living under those conditions might have some mental and social and emotional problems?

Originally posted by TgSoe
If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations.

How should "spirituality" have helped them against a bunch of brainless bullies.

maybe the spirituality factor takes a long time in man years to work itself thru humanity

consider: the Indian CASINO phenomena of today!!


i think Byrd says it best in the extended version
and DaTruth in the condensed version

this is my power song that is taking me to the edge
this is rock medicine
let the story fires be lit
this is a bead in a story belt
it is the smell of the woods and fresh grass
it is the sound of a river
i am dancing underneath you

lines taken from a song by Robbie Robertson and the red road ensemble

for those of us who know ...no explanation is needed
for those of us who dont....no explanation will do

Originally posted by DaTruth

Originally posted by TgSoe
I have become interested in spiritualism in the last two years and anyhow, I just had a thought. If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations. I understand the suicide rate is high on the reservations. Any thoughts?

There sprit and beliefs have benn shattered. But everything happens for a reason. The one's who stick to there beliefs are truly the strong ones. Black people had no chance to keep there beleifs there language, names, and culture was striped form them. But what ever dosn't kill you mates you stronger

Modern day eskimos have a very large suicide rate aswell..I think it has to do with thier true identity being stripped from them and then they have to measure up to the rest of soiciety and obviously not everyone is happy with the american lifestyle compared to their own original ways of life and thus it can become overwhelming for them and the despair becomes to much.

if china came and took over america and told us we could not keep our religions,launguage,or culture and we had to conform to thier communist chinese way of life im sure that many americans would become overwhelmed and commit suicide in somewhat large numbers.

IMO of coarse

Originally posted by DaTruth

Originally posted by TgSoe
I have become interested in spiritualism in the last two years and anyhow, I just had a thought. If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations. I understand the suicide rate is high on the reservations. Any thoughts?

There sprit and beliefs have benn shattered. But everything happens for a reason. The one's who stick to there beliefs are truly the strong ones. Black people had no chance to keep there beleifs there language, names, and culture was striped form them. But what ever dosn't kill you mates you stronger

I once met wrecker driver who said that some of the blacks did hold on to some of thier religion. For instance six blacks got hit by a train and killed. The impact broke all of thier knecks. The familys wanted the car brought to thier house where a ceremony was performed around it to get any good they could from the spirits of the deceased.

I guess possibly the real reason all people of every nation have been rounded up and taught one language is for the eventual New World Order. Imagine the races that might have never seen some of the technology we have today. It still had to be tough for those who had to make the transition.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by TgSoe
I have become interested in spiritualism in the last two years and anyhow, I just had a thought. If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations. I understand the suicide rate is high on the reservations. Any thoughts?

There's a number of things, here:

The Indians weren't defeated by lining up holy men on each side and proclaiming their spirituality. They were defeated by technology and coordinated influx of societies that were much larger. Individual nations of tribes were never that strong in numbers compared to the Europeans (and the vast numbers they could and did ship over from other countries.)

The suicide rate has a lot to do with the living conditions and the forcing of culture down their throat. Suppose you and everyone you knew were hauled off to a wilderness concentration camp -- no food except what you grew, no roads, no electricity, in the middle of the African desert, in a country where no one spoke your language, and your area was guarded and administered by thugs who raped your women, took your weapons, beat you and your friends at every chance, stole program money and supplies, and gave you bad medical care while forcing their religion down your throat. Suppose this group of people also stole your children, forced them to attend THEIR schools and convert to THEIR religion and then (nicely indocrinated) sent your children back to live with you when they were nearly adults. Add to that no jobs, no income, and the society's belief that you were some sort of quaint zoo animal, fit to gawk at but not to participate in society.

Ya think folks living under those conditions might have some mental and social and emotional problems?

I don't believe its right what has been done to the Indians. I guess thier way of life just didn't fit in with main stream society. Our government nipped them in the bud before they became a major resistance to the to them I suppose.

It just seems like to me that he who has the biggest guns, the most technology and the most allies wins not the one who is deeper seated spiritually. Granted the spiritual person might have more peace of mind.

Originally posted by m0rbid

Originally posted by TgSoe
If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations.

How should "spirituality" have helped them against a bunch of brainless bullies.

It just looks like to me that the great spirit would have warned them of thier future and helped them to escape it somehow. Mere man is no match for technology. Might seems to win in this world

Originally posted by TgSoe
It just looks like to me that the great spirit would have warned them of thier future and helped them to escape it somehow. Mere man is no match for technology. Might seems to win in this world

We were "warned" by the great spirit, there is a big name involved here that I can't remember. Crazy Horse, or Geronimo, one of these recieved a vision of the coming of the "white man." He knew, but not alot wanted to listen I think... So I guess ignorance played a big part, I can't really remember all the details but it DID happen.

Oh yeah, stop referring to my people as "Indians," it's starting to get to me.

Native American's appeals to the most of us.

Originally posted by McGotti
Modern day eskimos have a very large suicide rate aswell..I think it has to do with thier true identity being stripped from them and then they have to measure up to the rest of soiciety and obviously not everyone is happy with the american lifestyle compared to their own original ways of life and thus it can become overwhelming for them and the despair becomes to much.

if china came and took over america and told us we could not keep our religions,launguage,or culture and we had to conform to thier communist chinese way of life im sure that many americans would become overwhelmed and commit suicide in somewhat large numbers.

IMO of coarse

I hadn't considered the Eskimos. I suppose all cultures will eventually face these kind of changes. Maybe one day when we have one religion and one language the world will be more at peace but I doubt it. Different races still have that tendency to stick to thier on kind.

Originally posted by TgSoe
I have become interested in spiritualism in the last two years and anyhow, I just had a thought. If the indians were so spiritual it doesn't seem to have been of great advantage to them when the U.S. armys invaded thier lands, rounded them up and put them all on reservations. I understand the suicide rate is high on the reservations. Any thoughts?

That's good that you are becoming interested in spirituality, it'll be something to bring richness to your life.

The spirituality of North American Natives people's was strong and it had its basis on the connection of people to the land or Mother Earth. It was an understanding of the symbiotic relationship between man and nature, and that nature was living, with the power of nature to make or break man, depending on how Mother Earth is treated.

The native peoples of North America accepted with open arms the Europeans that arrived. The native peoples knew that the race of light skinned people were going to arrive, as was mentioned by the prophecies. The native peoples provided the start for Europeans to get established on the North America continent, and provided medicines for the illnesses that Europeans brought to the land. Basically, without the help of the power of the Native People's spirituality, all Europeans might not have been in North American today.

It's unfortunate the Native peoples were stripped of their cultures and placed on reserves.

There is one last prophecy left, the 7th fire it is called. This one says the prophecy was made by a "young person with glowing eyes".

The 6th prophecy was the losing of balance between nature and man.

The 5th prophecy was the knowledge of the light skinned people, which has come to pass.

The 7th fire is interesting because I wonder who this person is, if it is, or some kind of being, as the glowing eyes were mentioned.

GHost child

running through your dreams at night
banging on the walls of spirit fight
giving greed comfort in the light
warding off the spirits who come
to wake you up and drag you from
your desire from god to run

Ghost child

locked and left here
by visions of his mother
raped and beaten to death
by five bearded with laughter on their breath
now he haunts five thousand
of the greedy's offspring
he loves the trends of the last days

Ghost child

his spirit strong
his line of descendants
was meant to be long
trapped with a link to our world
by the blade
of seven thousand underworld
Masquerades


all rights reserved copyright
The Polish Assassin and the Nez Perz

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by panchovilla]

I have profound respect for the Natives. It is a shame that their teachings, culture, and religion has been almost entirely eliminated. Their form of spiritually was far advanced and highly in flow with nature and the source/creator/great spirit.

Here is the 10 "Indian Commandments"

*Treat the Earth and all that dwell theron with respect.

*Remain close to the Great Spirit.

*Show great respect for your fellow beings.

*Work together for the benefit of all Mankind.

*Give assistance and kindness wherever needed.

*Do what you know to be right.

*Look after the well-being of mind and body.

*Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good.

*Be truthful and honest at all times.

*Take full responsibility for your actions

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Aliceinwonderland]

who calls theese dead to dance?
was it the ghost child playing a song on her baby grand?
was it the great ghost god himself
stuttering
cheering chanting blindly

death makes angels of us all and gives us wings where we had shoulders smooth as ravens claws

from an american prayer
words jim morrison
a man who greatly respected the american indigenous peoples

yes taken away
but by who
hmmmmm.
i love the indians
my great grandpa said he was quarter indian.
one of my best friends is half seneca and onondogua
i got the indian ten count on the reservation one day
you dont wont to get the indian ten count though i can tell you that.
my friend just bought me a house warming gift it was a dream circle made with real pheasant feathers and pelts,this man de la is huge and i consider it the best house warming gift i ever received