My only experience with this ailment is through a friend of a friend who is a truly engaging individual when on his medication and a truly frightening individual when off. I don't understand why people won't take medication that helps them function but it seems to happen. I am basically a libertarian and don't believe that the state has the obligation or right to step in and save an individual from himself but at the same time it seems that force feeding anti-psychotics to those who are psychotic is kind of a win/win situation.

no one should be forced to take any kind of drug, I don't care what the problem is.

I have no idea. on one hand, many schizophrenics function well on medication but are dangerous to themselves and others off. but, the idea of force-feeding medication isn't so appealing. unfortunately the reason so many schzophrenics (this is a problem with all mental disorders that are controllable with medication) go off the meds is once the meds kick in and they start feeling better, they feel that they're cured and can go off the meds.

that's exactly what I'm wrestling with. If it were me, would I be willing to trade personal autonomy for sanity?

Believe it or not, this is happening already with Drunk Driving convictions and government forced rehabiltation.

You still have a little leeway with one DUI but after two (or one very high BAC), the courts label you an alcoholic and mandate a clinical evaluation...

Guess what, the clinical evaluators almost always recommend a very expensive turn in their own programs and anti-depressants to boot.

In order to EVER get your license back, or in some cases stay out of jail the shrink works with your parole officer to make sure you do everything recommended.

It doesn't matter if the Paxil (or whatever) makes you feel crazy, or gain weight, or any number of other negative side effects (some people commit suicide) it's the "law" for you.

The government in this and some violent crimes (like domestic) are in cahoots with a BUSINESS: Mental Health. If you don't believe it's a business, watch TV for 20 minutes and you'll see at least one ad or more telling you you'll be happier on this or that pill, and your normal feelings of anxiety are indeed NOT normal.

Granted, some people have problems and meds work for them, but I'm against forced meds. But that's just me.

Also "schizophrenic" is open to interpretation. Some doctors think everyone is bi-polar and it's no big deal. Some thing bi-polar IS schizophrenic. The fact is, in some ways...they're both right.


[Edited on 1-3-2004 by RANT]

.. yes
..no
yes
no
yes!
no!!
YES!!!!!
NO!!!!!!
Look stop arguing with me!!
Why not you are wrong!!!
I am not!!
Ya so!!!
Idiot!!
Twat!!
gumble
grumble.....

alot of people think drugs in any form are evil...pills, medication, etc.

i know alot of people who wont evn take advil.

i know a whoooooole bunch of artists who refuse tot ake their meds, simply because they do their best work when they are seriously going crazy....they start taking their meds and they start producing realistic paintings....of fruit...and such.

i dont like drugs. i wont take antidepressants (though they say i should) i wont take pills for insomnia (though they say i should) and i wont take pills to controll my frequent panic attacks (though they say is hould.)

its a ocmpletely individual thing. if they will not take their pills, and it is that drastic, then they choose and institution. if this is made clear, they will make the choice they wish to choose for themselves. (even though in an institution they will most likely pump the drugs into them intheir sleep so they end up getting it anyway!)

Its not just mental health but pharmaceutical companies reaping the benefits of forced meds. If you are around someone who diagnosis mental illness they will see different problems sooner or later in everyone, we all have some little habit or problem that can be pegged, whether it depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, we all fit in some category at one time or another in our lives. I used to work in a mental health facility and also assisted afterwards with ECT, or Electro Convulsive Therapy. As part of my training I got to watch one. Their no longer like the ones you see in the horror movies, the patient is asleep and has a team of nurses and drs present. He is hooked up to all kinds of monitors just like in an operating room. The patient does not feel any pain, after they wake up they might be a little confused and maybe a little sleepy or tired but from what I seen it really helps with major depression. I saw people who were so depressed they had quit eating or even going to the bathroom, they were in diapers leave walking out on their own able to care for themselves. I've worked with people who were skizophrenics and were in true pain from their illness, I can see that many once they got well fooled themselves into believing it was not the meds and went off it time and time again causing themselves and their families needless pain plus also in that state they can be dangerous because they are delusional so being forced to stay on meds is safer for everyone. I understand the implication of people being forced to take meds and how that can be abused but in some cases like drunk drivers who repeatedly drive under the influence putting us all at risk it might not be a bad idea if it is determined by drs that is best and in the case of some mental health patients its best also, did any of you know there are many people with tuberculosis who think nothing of walking around spreading the disease just becasue they don't want to be restricted at all for any amount of time and many do not want to take their meds either and can give it to you simply by walking by you in a store and coughing. Scary stuff!

I have a friend that was misdiagnosed with it. Should he have been force feed drugs for an illness that he did not have?

Originally posted by deevee
My only experience with this ailment is through a friend of a friend who is a truly engaging individual when on his medication and a truly frightening individual when off. I don't understand why people won't take medication that helps them function but it seems to happen. I am basically a libertarian and don't believe that the state has the obligation or right to step in and save an individual from himself but at the same time it seems that force feeding anti-psychotics to those who are psychotic is kind of a win/win situation.

I had a friend with an almost identical history/diagnosis. My friend would
suffer depression, but always was nice when friends were around.
One night the police almost hit him in the middle of road, while
he was suffering an episode. They rushed him to hos' and the
psych's took over. They dosed his brain with enough Lithium
for ten people. He could not even remember his own name,
so he was 'certified', and his med' dose was ground in a
pesel and morter and mixed into his fluids and food.

I met him in 1988 and he died in 02, aged 37.
A tragic case of medical ignorance.

People whouldnt be forced to take any kind of drug!

Thats kinda messed up.

To me it looks like America is turning to facism, where people believe and act the same way and comply to what higher ups have to say.

Dam, I just wish people would force me drugs, I'd gladly take them.

[Edited on 2-3-2004 by Eternal]

And aren't certain sex offenders of medication?? Although I think this is voluntary.

Very good question, you're making my brain work this morning.
I suppose if the person is a threat to himself and society, you could make an argument for forced meds. If the person can make an informed decision, isn't that good enough?
I have heard some of theose meds make you "normal" but have other undesireable side effects.

Aren't childhood vaccinations are form of forced drugs? YOu can't get into school without your shots.

It's a matter of degree, how sick are these people. My wife worked a rest home working with manics, schitz, bipolar,etc. I got to know most of the residents that came through. Some could function on few, or mild meds, others needed the meds to barely function. In fact those that REALLY needed them, and didn't get them they would totally lose it and throw dangerous fits, and also tried to hurt themselves.

NO forced meds

Give them an inch they'll take a mile
[the legal & Psychs & govt 'controllers']
they've got enough control & legal force allready!

Iffen you get caught up in the bureaucratic machine,
they can withhold food/sleep/etc until you
'voluntarily' take your meds.

they can force stuff like Halidol into your system,

which actually makes you 'crazier'...and the outside
observer gets the "there, you see" line of BS...
BTW; the Halidol meds screwed up some peoples
vision--> but there is no recourse, the state is
immune from liability....After All, They're Making You Sane!--> and permitted to perform modern day MENGELE experiments on people unfortunate enough to
have been committed.

hey, a lot of youse are Border Line...
all it would take is 1 accusatory finger...
and BOOM--->the wire-mesh window screens, locked doors, hollow echoing hallways stinking of antiseptic
rough,stiff, paper-like sheets on cold plastic cots..
are the perimeters of your world.

Its almost a blessing to finally be given Thorazine,
It dosen't scramble your brain like the other psyco-tropics...and if your fortunate enough...you won't
really be the zombie like Thorazine Shuffler, stereotyped
in the publics eye (ala ....Cookoos' Nest) as you wink/nod knowingly to others trapped in the LookingGlass World-->>
of state controlled psychiatric/pharmaceutical living.

there aint no 'better living thru chemistry' rational that is sane. save your compassion & rationalizations for the truely needy, whose ability to live is of paramount importence...let everyone who is able , determine their own Quality-of-life standards!!

for those that plodded thru this, you might be said to have more heart than sense...enjoy your journey

Quote:...let everyone who is able , determine their own Quality-of-life standards!!

I like what you say here. The only problem is how, and who determines who is able? I would like to think that if I was in a position like this my doctor would give me and my family the correct course of action.

I personally don't buy into the paraniod view that the doctor I have been dealing with for years would set me up to end up in government control. Sorry if I didn't get your point.

Why am I suddenlly reminded of Soma?

Originally posted by sanctum
I had a friend with an almost identical history/diagnosis. My friend would
suffer depression, but always was nice when friends were around.
One night the police almost hit him in the middle of road, while
he was suffering an episode. They rushed him to hos' and the
psych's took over. They dosed his brain with enough Lithium
for ten people. He could not even remember his own name,
so he was 'certified', and his med' dose was ground in a
pesel and morter and mixed into his fluids and food.

I met him in 1988 and he died in 02, aged 37.
A tragic case of medical ignorance.

sounds like your friend was bipolar, not schizophrenic. sort of a moot point, but they are pretty different disorders.

Originally posted by intrepid
Quote:...let everyone who is able , determine their own Quality-of-life standards!!

I like what you say here. The only problem is how, and who determines who is able? I would like to think that if I was in a position like this my doctor would give me and my family the correct course of action.

[well, you might take an example from your? others? Good Book...and the Good Samaratan episode...it was obvious to everyone that passed by the wounded traveler was in a bad way, yet only one person lent him assistance...there is a moral slant but look at the distinguishing characteristics of the mugged traveler...so to would be anything in the realm of psychiatric assistance...ie triage, first aid/clinic/ER/rehab/sanitorium...or something in that line of progression to *institutional confinement*]

I personally don't buy into the paraniod view that the doctor I have been dealing with for years would set me up to end up in government control. Sorry if I didn't get your point.

perhaps not your family MD, but even your primary care physician would be hard pressed to 'buck authority'...you know the MD is bound by law to report those abberent behavior types...and it is left to the state PHDs to determine someones' fate (in mental health areas

the point being
the amophorus 'they' have enormous power right now..
the only way to avoid confinement & forced meds is to
glide under the radar...become invisible...for heavens' sake do not get caughht up in the 'system'

prepare yourself like the dude in Conspiracy Theory

(if your not schizo...forget what you heard here..)

Originally posted by riffraffalunas
perhaps not your family MD, but even your primary care physician would be hard pressed to 'buck authority'...you know the MD is bound by law to report those abberent behavior types...and it is left to the state PHDs to determine someones' fate (in mental health areas

the point being
the amophorus 'they' have enormous power right now..
the only way to avoid confinement & forced meds is to
glide under the radar...become invisible...for heavens' sake do not get caughht up in the 'system'

prepare yourself like the dude in Conspiracy Theory

(if your not schizo...forget what you heard here..)

people really overestimate what it takes to be involuntarily committed. and if you're not committed, you can't be forced to stay on your meds.
it's really, really expensive to care for a person in inpatient, and most insurance providers don't want to pay for long stays. there are very, very few long-term inpatient psychiatriac hospitals around anymore, and there just aren't enough beds in hospital psych wards to accomidate long-term patients.
granted, this is all personal experience (I've been in and out of the mental health system for far longer than I'd like to admit), but it is damn hard to get the proper care, let alone more hospital time than you need.

Originally posted by MorningtonCrescent

Originally posted by riffraffalunas

prepare yourself like the dude in Conspiracy Theory

people really overestimate what it takes to be involuntarily committed. and if you're not committed, you can't be forced to stay on your meds.

reply [but the damage the 'overkill meds' do, while your in their 'custody'.... frazzles yor brain for a long time...even life....You go thru many attempts to regain your 'Equilibrium']

it's really, really expensive to care for a person in inpatient, and most insurance providers don't want to pay for long stays. there are very, very few long-term inpatient psychiatriac hospitals around anymore, and there just aren't enough beds in hospital psych wards to accomidate long-term patients.

reply [well, this has the air/perspective of "voluntary" submission, where a confused, depressed individual ELECTS to go to a 'funny farm'
to adjust/consolidate/reflect/adopt strategies= attempt to regain a personal Equilibrium...]


granted, this is all personal experience (I've been in and out of the mental health system for far longer than I'd like to admit), but it is damn hard to get the proper care, let alone more hospital time than you need.

reply [the hospital (meaning? institution?) time is only a adjunct to the FORCED MEDs issue of this thread..
i too have seen people abused with megadoses of that
Librium (for the manic=bipolars) and the Thorazine Shufflers.
Who are often released-->to just another 'level' of the
mental health care juggernaut-->another contrivance by the 'supervisors' to perpetuate their livlihoods & bureaucratic machinery.... Of course, having been in-out of some part of the MHC System..'longer than i'd like to admit'...you have some understanding of the situation-->but mostly as an outsider i would venture, as a voluntary patient no doubt....]..the aristocracy, with wealth, command & get what they wish, their world view is different than the riffraff.....viva la revolution, nice talking to ya..EOM