I was thinking of the current situation in the Amerian Economy

and thought back to a conversation I had with a very good friend of mine from new york. Being an Irish man (born, breed and where I still tred) I have always had a interest in things across the water. We where speaking that afternoon on the internet and he was going on about how grate America was and that they did not really need trade with the rest of the world to allow for it to survive.

In other words, it is an economy all in itself that was self serving and self sustaining. That got me thinking to the point of where I did some reseach, nothing major. I looked at some of the figure and it did seem that America could do pretty well without the trade with other countries (minus the oil, and we know how your government love the oil, no offence to the general American) however, I am not so sure anylonger.

The fact is that America is as dependent on International Trade as the rest of us, and my question I guess to all Americans is pretty simple, what would your country do if say, the EU Nation States along with the likes of China and Asia in general where to refuse to deal with your country? Cut off all trade links and trade directly with each other? Where would that leave your export market? What would it do to your economy?

If, say, the EU ans ASIA where to form a trade agreement that would permitt trade only with each other, do you think that America as we know it would die? Or, if, given the fact of your resent war history, do you feel that your government, whoever that should be, would start a war to fend of such an agreement?

You'll probably read this and think it is a dud question, and I am sure that you will advise me of your views.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by wow23]

reply to post by wow23

Good question: if we, the USA, were to be totally cut off -- embargoed by the rest of the planet, how would we fare?

I think we would actually do quite well. It is a big country, with a lot of resources and talent. A huge amount of technology has originated from the USA, and still exists here in some form.

I expect that we would move quickly to nuclear power, electric cars, our steel industry would flourish, we would have an incredible economic surge, more resulting freedom, better standard of living within a very short time.

I further expect the rest of the world would languish.

This sounds awfully isolationistic of me, and I really don't think it is a good idea to go that route. We have a strange sort of obligation to the rest of the world, and the USA sense of duty (often misguided) is an amazing power for good, speaking generally.

Fascinating post, Wow23. I spent some time before answering. I think I am right on, but would be interested in other comments and opinions.

Edit: Dud question? I don't think so. Must be someone else out there with an interest and opinion regarding alternate futures.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by Buck Division]

Well thought out responce my friend. I can see alot of your points and I would have to say a lot of them are valid. America is a pretty big place and I doubt that anyone would argue that there is a hell of a lot of talent in the country that would look after its interest.

However, America (and no other nation for that matter)would be able to self substain for any grate amount of time. Resources would run out and if they switch to Nuc power, that would have a devistating effect on the country's envorinment. Whilst your economy would grow internally, again, that would be given a flase image. A strong internal economy means jack on a global scale. Whilst America is built on a solid foundation, exports would account for half off all your economic growth (please correct me if I am worng).

Again, if you look at the current state of the American economy, it is not that strong on a global stage, so therefore, how would it servive on its own?

With regards to America having an obligation to the rest of the world, you don't really believe that is the reasons behind the current wars? And, more to the point, if Europe and Asia where to through all their forces into one, they would make a pretty darn good force in anybodies books. Looking at it like that, I think that America would come up against a powerhouse not even they could take on!

But again, I could be wrong, that happens alot.


[edit on 26-4-2008 by wow23]

The US is part of the global economy and it would hurt if for some reason we could not import or export.

If this were to happen however, I do think that the US could survive quite well, but not before there would be a massive and devastating shake up of the economy.

We have domestic oil supplies that are untapped because environmentalists go nuts when we start talking about using them. We also have technologies that are viable, but are under developed for a variety of reasons.

America used to be a manufacturing economy and we could be again.

However, the global economy is like the genie let out of the bottle.

It is either impossible or too impractical to put it back in.

The world is more interconnected than ever and that's not likely to change unless there is some super cataclysmic event that would force such a situation.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The US is part of the global economy and it would hurt if for some reason we could not import or export.

If this were to happen however, I do think that the US could survive quite well, but not before there would be a massive and devastating shake up of the economy.

We have domestic oil supplies that are untapped because environmentalists go nuts when we start talking about using them. We also have technologies that are viable, but are under developed for a variety of reasons.

America used to be a manufacturing economy and we could be again.

However, the global economy is like the genie let out of the bottle.

It is either impossible or too impractical to put it back in.

The world is more interconnected than ever and that's not likely to change unless there is some super cataclysmic event that would force such a situation.

Excellent post GradyPhilpott!

What I would say however is that in the current global situation, a United Europe and Asia would be force to reckon with. Economically, Asia is growning so much it is scary. Europe is also on the rise, the Euro is out proforming the dollar and British pound and it will continue to grow. Half, it not more of the worlds technology and electrical goods are Asian, europe is growning in that filed to.

Also, America does have a large reserve of fuels, however, that will not last that long. Also, if your thinking free fuel, it will never happen! That would kill your enconomy off in a splatter!

Originally posted by wow23
Also, America does have a large reserve of fuels, however, that will not last that long. Also, if your thinking free fuel, it will never happen! That would kill your enconomy off in a splatter!

Of course the oil reserves could not last forever, but that is true for the whole world. The point about our own oil reserves is that it's there as a buffer until alternative energy sources can be developed, including wind, solar, biological, and nuclear.

Only the extremely naive expect there ever to be fee energy. Whatever source of energy is used, it must be harnessed, transduced, transmitted, and as always there must be some form of machinery that must be bought, installed and maintained.

My point is that if such a condition were to occur, the US could make it, even if marginally. I don't think the same thing can be said for all countries.

We are blessed with a bountiful land and our population has historically shown great ingenuity.

As for our economy, we have suffered much more than we are now. In fact, the vast majority of Americans are getting by pretty well.

Even if things get worse before they get better, things will have to get a lot worse to be as bad as what we have weathered in the past.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I understand your points of view, however a United Europe and Asia would be much stronger than the states. Even take Asia out of the fray, Europe, in my view, would do a lot better than the states.

Whilst I agree that America would survive, I do not think that it would get stronger. That for me would be a navie way of thinking. America is dependent on world trade as much as anyone else and its resources are as limited as any other country. To much demand on them could not be sustained for any grate amount of time.

Where as, EU/ASIA or Europe alone would have much more resources given the size of it (remembering that it continue to grow). It resource would much out last that of Americas or any other body of its type, considering the size of Europe//1

Well, I'm confused, because I'm talking about the United States of America, which is a country, and your telling me that Europe and Asia, which are continents, would do better.

Maybe you're right, given those parameters, but remember that America's breadbasket feeds the world.

Even during the Cold War, Russia would have starved to death were it not for massive grain imports from the US to cover for their failed Utopia.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott



If you review the original posts, I refered to europe and asia. I see your point though. I would agree if on a single bases there is not country that could carry it as much as the states.

However, if reading what is being said on this form, US food levels are at an all time low. Could you picture what would happen to your natural resources if say, you had to turn to Nuclear energy?

Yes if you think about it you can pretty much grow everything in So California,throw in the other states and yes I think the US could do well using it's own resources,a wise old man once told me the hardest thing to do is change,I'm thinking neccesity will bring about change,so there is hope yet

Originally posted by wow23

If you review the original posts, I refered to europe and asia.

Okay, but I didn't expect that you'd be comparing apples and oranges. I expected that you meant the nations of Europe and Asia.

Could you picture what would happen to your natural resources if say, you had to turn to Nuclear energy?

I don't understand. Can you share your vision? Nuclear power is now being touted by the very environmentalist who have been resisting it for decades.

I'm not saying that I agree with that, but in one of my other posts, I noted that there are many sources of power that if used efficiently and wisely could keep this country running, including solar, geothermal, wind, biological, and nuclear.

I'd also ask you if you have any facts to back up your position or are you just expressing your disdain for the US and your desire to see it fall?