A New Christian Conspiracy!

Here's one that hasn't been discussed before (I'm guessing).
I think there is a major conspiracy in the Church to brainwash followers.
Instead of doing what Christ said, we've been doing the opposite. Who is pushing us towards this though? Why is it that money is such a big topic in church? It shouldn't be according to Christ. Yeshua said give to Cesar what is Cesar's and give to God what is God's. So what does God want? He wants us, He wants our love and devotion, He wants us to love others and help others. So we should give ourselves to God. The tithe was a tax back in the old testiment and was a tax later on, it was to support the priests because they were the poeple who went before God for us for our sins, a pretty big job back then. We have Yeshua now, we don't need a priest, so the only money we should be giving is for the church to be able to pay it's bills and to pay for missions (my personal belief). But we have people like Joel Olsteen who smile all the time (bible warns about false prophets who do that) and has big, huge, enormous church where people here a sugarcoated nice little messege where it doesn't matter what they believe as long as they're good, tax paying, American, money donating, run of the mil little Christians. Many, many, many, Christians are being brainwashed into believe a set of lies that serve no purpose than to convience people that they must give there money to a guy making more than them and that they should be slaves of the Government and that anything and everything tha our Government does is right. That my friends is pure B.S.! Why is it that this is happening? A lot of things that are being taught in the Church these days are anti-Christ. Who is behind this? How can we turn this around. There is a conspiracy in all this my friends, and it is a deadly one.

-Jimmy

I tend to agree with this arguement, myself as a non-denominational Christian I have come to appreciate churches that don't emphasize much else than faith, prayer and worship.

Christianity has the potential to be a great, uplifting religion. At the core, it has a pretty nice message. Not the best I've seen, I guess, but then most people don't really cast that far for their spiritual needs, so what the heck.

However, Mohandas Gandhi said it best. "I like your Christ. But I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

Christianity has not been about Jesus for some centuries now. If it ever truly was. The first strike is that Christianity relies more heavily on the writings of Paul than on the teachings of Jesus. Paul... Well, he had an agenda, I believe, to undermine the early Christian church and its teachings. Quite curious that the Roman Emperors tied the religion to the writings of a Roman killer of Christians more strongly than the Judaic mysticism and enlightened teachings of Jesus, huh?

But what you're looking at is laizzes-faire Christianity. You don't have to live a good life. You don't have to be a decent person. You don't have to stand by your word. You don't need to be charitable, or humble, or conscientious, or anything else that Jesus taught. Nothing. Throw out your bible - you don't need it. Call yourself a Christian, and boom, free ticket to heaven.

This is also known as "Protestantism." And here in the United States, we have combined this laizzes-fair Christianity with laizzes-faire economics... And boom. Megachurch. Do as I say, not as I do, and I say give me money for the lawrd. Praise the Republicans and pass that ammo, for they give us tax breaks and librulz need taking care of!

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

But what you're looking at is laizzes-faire Christianity. You don't have to live a good life. You don't have to be a decent person. You don't have to stand by your word. You don't need to be charitable, or humble, or conscientious, or anything else that Jesus taught. Nothing. Throw out your bible - you don't need it. Call yourself a Christian, and boom, free ticket to heaven.
This is also known as "Protestantism."

That's an extremely broad brush, you're using! Protestantism.
True, there are many much like you've described, but,
just as there are those starving in the catholic faith, whilst the pope drinks from gold-studded chalices and lives in numerous palaces.
Just like other faiths have their charlatans in the jungles and deserts and compounds!

The 'Love' of money is the root of all evil. The Bible is always true.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And here in the United States, we have combined this laizzes-fair Christianity with laizzes-faire economics... And boom. Megachurch. Do as I say, not as I do, and I say give me money for the lawrd. Praise the Republicans and pass that ammo, for they give us tax breaks and librulz need taking care of!

The Bible refers to them as 'wolves in sheep's clothing', eating up the flock for their gain. Millionaire preachers who exploit their people.

reply to post by Clearskies


Precisely! Although many churches (especially further up in the heirarchy) appear to be 'money grabbers' and the new evangelical types (hillsong etc) are some of the worst offenders, but the Catholic Church has to be without a doubt the biggest money spinner of all time. They have so many rare and valuable artifacts not to mention property and cash. Most of wich is given by it's gullable followers.
You may not belive it but I am in fact a Christian. The problem I have and I feel it does relate is that more and more people these days practice what I call Churchianity instead f Christianity. They follow and belive the word and practices of thier church leaders instead of reading the bible for themselves and trying to get a real understadning of what it is all about.

Originally posted by Clearskies
That's an extremely broad brush, you're using! Protestantism.

Okay. Find me a branch of protestantism that does not adhere to these five principles:
Sola Christus (Christ Alone; there are no saints, and works do nothing to assist your entry to heaven)
Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone; that only our version of the Bible counts)
Sola Fide (Faith alone; you are rewarded merely for believing, not for doing)
Sola Gratia (Grace alone; Nothing you do can change your state of grace with God. Your merit and life do not matter)
Sola Deo Gloria (Glory to God alone; All glory is due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action)

Since these are the defining points of every branch of Protestantism, and four out of five tell you that it's about your faith and God's judgement alone, and nothing else matters, please explain to me how I'm broad-brushing when I say Protestantism doesn't believe you need to live your life with Jesus as a model for His grace. I am ever so eager to hear the sounds of you gnawing your own foot off here.

True, there are many much like you've described, but,
just as there are those starving in the catholic faith, whilst the pope drinks from gold-studded chalices and lives in numerous palaces.

Absolutely. But as individuals, the best (as in, most Christlike) Christians I have known have all been Catholic or Orthodox. My criticism of Protestantism isn't an endorsement of the Roman Church.

Just like other faiths have their charlatans in the jungles and deserts and compounds!

Or churches or universities, or halls of government...

The 'Love' of money is the root of all evil. The Bible is always true.

Well, a lot of its philosophical points do ring true, at least. And I would characterize it as greed is the root of all evil. Needless desire. On the other hand, evil is the root of all need.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Okay. Find me a branch of protestantism that does not adhere to these five principles:
Sola Christus (Christ Alone; there are no saints, and works do nothing to assist your entry to heaven)

Although I've never heard that latin term and it wasn't part of your earlier argument, yes, most Christians would say Christ is the Gate to the Father.

Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone; that only our version of the Bible counts)

Absolutely!!! The King James Version.

Sola Fide (Faith alone; you are rewarded merely for believing, not for doing)

Not at all! Read the Bible. Jesus promised to come with each man's reward according to his deeds!

Sola Gratia (Grace alone; Nothing you do can change your state of grace with God. Your merit and life do not matter)

You can ASK God for more grace.

Sola Deo Gloria (Glory to God alone; All glory is due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action)

Who else deserves glory???
Man?

Since these are the defining points of every branch of Protestantism, and four out of five tell you that it's about your faith and God's judgement alone, and nothing else matters, please explain to me how I'm broad-brushing when I say Protestantism doesn't believe you need to live your life with Jesus as a model for His grace. I am ever so eager to hear the sounds of you gnawing your own foot off here.

My foot's fine!
Most protestants seek to obey the entire Bible, not just five latin phrases!

I am nit a Catholic (they have done many, many evil things and I feel there teachings reflect the opposite of what Christ taught), I am not a protastant (I don't know 100% what a protastant is) I am a friend of Yeshua. I do not adhere to a denomination or believe whatever coes from a preachers mouth, my dad was an Assemblies of God pastor, I don't believe everything that they do, but that's ok. I only believe in what the Bible says and practise what is taught in the New Testiment (AKA the New Covonent).

Here is what the Catholic church and the Protostant church have shown Jesus to be:

Here is what Yeshua actually looks like:







Matthew 25:35-40

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

-Jimmy

reply to post by Clearskies


If you were to pay closer attention, it's absolutely the crux of my earlier post - that Protestantism tells you you don't have to do anything. You're either saved or your not.

THis of course, results in an awful lot of people "knowing" that they're saved... No matter what. All the profit, none of the effort. Laissez-faire Christianity

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Catholosism is worse. All you have to do is give enough money to the Pope and he can give you a piece of paper that says you get to go to Heaven, or just tell some priest or light some candles. The Catholics are just as guilty as Protastants.

"For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but who so ever believes in me shall not die, but have everlasting life."

We are not saved through works, but by faith, but our works shows our faith.

No man or woman (like Marry) can save your soul, only Christ alone can. That is what I believe. This thread is not about Catholic vs. Protostant.

-Jimmy

I want to one day start a Missions group, where anyone who wants to can come with me as long as they pay for there own plane ticket and they are there to work. I want to teach people how to grow food, build houses and dig wells. I want to feed people, I want to die by having a heart attack from helping someone who truely needs the help.

"The Son of man comes to serve, not to be served."

That's who I wanna be like, I want to be like my hero.

Who is poluting the church with prosparity messages? Who is telling the people that it's about the money you make here on earth? Who is telling people to serve God for a reward? I don't wanna a reward, my reward is getting to be like Christ, that is the geatest reward of all, to be able to help someone and nobody even know it was you, but knew found Christ through your love, that is a great reward.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE CHURCH!
Why are we not doing more?

-Jimmy

My understanding, from listening on the radio to experts on the topic of mind control, is that brain washing is a made up term to explain what was happening to Americans captured by the enimy in the Korean War.
Most psycologists do not believe it is real.
Torture can be used to get people to say things they do not want to, but real brainwashing is just destrucion of the mind.
I do think there is real mind control going on.
What I think you are trying to explain in your OP, sounds more to me like pandering.
People are getting what they want to hear.
Another thing is that there is an emotional boost people get from the big group thing.
My fobia or whatever about church has to do with ritual being used for mind control.
Lucky for me, I was brought up in a church that delt with things in a pretty intelectual manner.
Fear was the major tool used for mind control in my church, but it was used in a restrained sort of way, probubly because they knew if it was over-used the affects would loos something of its power.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

However, Mohandas Gandhi said it best. "I like your Christ. But I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

I don't believe it, Fox, I actually agree with you on religion!

Okay. Find me a branch of protestantism that does not adhere to these five principles:
Sola Christus (Christ Alone; there are no saints, and works do nothing to assist your entry to heaven)
Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone; that only our version of the Bible counts)
Sola Fide (Faith alone; you are rewarded merely for believing, not for doing)
Sola Gratia (Grace alone; Nothing you do can change your state of grace with God. Your merit and life do not matter)
Sola Deo Gloria (Glory to God alone; All glory is due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action)

I can't. All do believe in these things. But, as usual, you've neglected some of the details:

Sola Christus: Yes, Christ is the only way to true salvation. And since Christ is the way, and since He came to us in human form, His life is to emulated as best as we can. That includes charity, love one for another, forgiveness, mercy... all those terrible things we Christians do.
Sola Scriptura: This is almost laughable, Fox. Who would believe a religion, but at the same time not believe in the foundation of it?
Sola Fide: We are saved by faith, not by works. But faith will manifest itself in works. In other words, if you start with works, you get works. If you start with faith, you get both. (Of course, if you start with no faith and no works, you get neither.)
Sola Gratia: A very unenlightened interpretation. One's life does indeed matter, extremely so! Remember John 3:16? 'The world' means YOU. YOU matter that much.
Sola deo Gloria: Please show me someone more worthy?

You're doing better though, my congratulations.

TheRedneck

P.S.: I want to respond directly to the OP, but it's late and redneck is tired. Maybe tomorrow. Good night all!

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


When did the RCC start selling indulgences again? Pope Pious V canceled existing monetary indulgences, and forbade any more being granted, in 1567. It's four hundred and forty years later, and so far, no other Pope has sold indulgences.

Oh wait, I forgot I'm on the CiR forum. If it's not Pentecostal, it's crrrrrrap!

'Course, Catholicism is the largest group of Christians on the earth, followed closely by Eastern Orthodoxy... So... Maybe they're on to something.


I'm telling you what's behind the prosperity doctrine. American protestantism - with its focus on do-nothing salvation, political indulgence, and fast-track capitalism is behind this doctrine. I'm terribly sorry if this pisses off people, but that's exactly what is behind this "philosophy"

[edit on 14-4-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


Satan uses false religion to lure people from the truth.
You said: "A lot of things that are being taught in the Church these days are anti-Christ." That goes hand in hand with my statement.

If the churches were teaching the truth, they would be "anti-Christ" would they?

"Who is behind this?" Satan. The people that he uses as puppets probably do not even realize that they are being used. Those people probably think that whay they are doing is the right thing. They are being blinded from the truth.

That includes preachers, priests, and world leaders.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


fully agree with that,

where does the money go? during a council meeting the "minister" who didn't believe there was a devil, said that HIS WAGE was always the first consideration

au.youtube.com...

all the best, great comment

david

[edit on 15/4/2008 by drevill]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by jimmyjackblack

 

When did the RCC start selling indulgences again? Pope Pious V canceled existing monetary indulgences, and forbade any more being granted, in 1567. It's four hundred and forty years later, and so far, no other Pope has sold indulgences.

Oh wait, I forgot I'm on the CiR forum. If it's not Pentecostal, it's crrrrrrap!

'Course, Catholicism is the largest group of Christians on the earth, followed closely by Eastern Orthodoxy... So... Maybe they're on to something.

I'm telling you what's behind the prosperity doctrine. American protestantism - with its focus on do-nothing salvation, political indulgence, and fast-track capitalism is behind this doctrine. I'm terribly sorry if this pisses off people, but that's exactly what is behind this "philosophy"

[edit on 14-4-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Oh they are on to something, the RCC itself though is on its way to satan IMHO

thanks
david

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by jimmyjackblack

 

When did the RCC start selling indulgences again? Pope Pious V canceled existing monetary indulgences, and forbade any more being granted, in 1567. It's four hundred and forty years later, and so far, no other Pope has sold indulgences.

Catholic encyclopedia

WHO CAN GRANT INDULGENCES

The distribution of the merits contained in the treasury of the Church is an exercise of authority (potestas iurisdictionis), not of the power conferred by Holy orders (potestas ordinis). Hence the pope, as supreme head of the Church on earth, can grant all kinds of indulgences to any and all of the faithful; and he alone can grant plenary indulgences. The power of the bishop, previously unrestricted, was limited by Innocent III (1215) to the granting of one year's indulgence at the dedication of a church and of forty days on other occasions. Leo XIII (Rescript of 4 July. 1899) authorized the archbishops of South America to grant eighty days (Acta S. Sedis, XXXI, 758). , II, q. viii, a. 16).Pius X (28 August, 1903) allowed cardinals in their titular churches and dioceses to grant 200 days; archbishops, 100; bishops, 50. These indulgences are not applicable to the souls departed. They can be gained by persons not belonging to the diocese, but temporarily within its limits; and by the subjects of the granting bishop, whether these are within the diocese or outside--except when the indulgence is local. Priests, vicars general, abbots, and generals of religious orders cannot grant indulgences unless specially authorized to do so. On the other hand, the pope can empower a cleric who is not a priest to give an indulgence (St. Thomas, "Quodlib."

American Protestantism is a faith filled with works!!!
Missionaries and helping the poor around the world!
The Holy Bible says;

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
BlueletterBible

hello There

Pope P2 said this is 1998

Pope John Paul II announced Friday that throughout the millennium celebration, penitents who do a charitable deed or give up cigarettes or alcohol for a day can earn an 'indulgence" that will eliminate time in purgatory...

HOUSTON CHRONICLE (Nov 28, 1998, p. 26A)

well who needs nicotine patches? what an incentive!