F-22 "Black-out button"

a reply to: Xeven

Really? Lifes harder than that! Even if you buy cots making them work as one can turn into nightmare Land. Spend years having a loaded gun and boxes of painkillers in my bottom draw.

RAB

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: hellobruce

my fault. I was told to read it as how great the f22 is against aa missiles in another thread.

that was vs one S-300 in a turning radius you realuze right?a pilot can stand up to 15 gs before black out in a raptor. a solution for a blacked out pilt is to have a flight computer programmed for evasion and able to fly away along with that u turn. that is to be done when the sam is terminal and cant change course if you read the article of when its to be used.

a reply to: hellobruce

The key is WHEN those Gs are. Sprint accelerated at 100Gs, not turned. If you can cause a missile to try to turn at the right time, which gets harder ever generation of missile, it's either going to donate trying to hit the target, or try to turn and tumble.

originally posted by: Naboo the Enigma
Air combat manouvres do not defeat misssiles, counter measures do.

Not quite. Spoofing can be purely defensive (the drag: turn 180° around, burn as hard as you can, and make continuous 90° turns to force the missile to maneuver against you) or can be a mix of defensive and offensive (the beam: put the missile on a 90° bearing from you and make climbs and dives to force the missile to maneuver against you). In either case, you're forcing the missile to bleed off its energy so that it doesn't have sufficient energy to keep up with your maneuvering in the terminal phase of its flight. The advantage of the drag is that you have a very high chance of defeating the missile; the disadvantage is that you are now 180° away from the fight and purely defensive

a reply to: Naboo the Enigma

Air combat manouvres do not defeat misssiles, counter measures do.

You are sadly mistaken. The Counter measures help but you can defeat any air to air missile by turning hard back into it and down to the deck. The missile, unless its close enough to detonate its proximity fuse will fly right past you.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

That changed with shaped charge warheads.

AA missiles now direct all the power of their charge towards their target with some 270' radius and 500m-1km kill range.
read more below: (which comes from how we know MH17 was shot down by a [almost certainly Ukrainian, probably thinking Putin was on board] plane, AA missiles leave rectangular or diamond holes, not bullet holes like that found in the cockpit of MH17)
aux.ciar.org...

Abstract
Warheads have evolved from simple designs that projected non-optimized size fragments in a symmetric pattern about the roll axis of the missile to those that aim optimized fragments in a concentrated beam in the target direction. Evolution has been driven by the changing target threat and is made possible by advances in warhead explosive initiation system and target detection (fuze) technology in conjunction with maturity of target vulnerability descriptions and methodology.

a reply to: mSparks43

Missile warheads have had shaped charges for a long time. The evasion technique has been the same with or without it. The change has been in more maneuverable missiles and better seekers making it harder.

As early as the SA-2 fragmentation warheads were in use. They might even have been in use on the SA-1. The evasion technique has been to generate an overshoot by the missile so that when it does explode none of the fragments hit the aircraft. It's worked from the start, and it still works today, although it's much harder to do because of better seekers and thrust vectoring.

a reply to: Zaphod58

probably should have been more specific.
now so much "shaped" as directionally shaped.

only the last 10-15 years or so that AA missiles got the ability to change the direction of their shaped charge AAUI.

So now you dont just have to get away from the missile pointing in your general direction to avoid it like "the good old days"

now if it gets within 1km you are probably going to take serious damage, and the closer it gets the more likely it is that it's a total loss of the plane.

Not to mention Chinese/Russia AA missiles now travel at hypersonic mach 14 / 4800m/s speeds, so the chances of a pilot having any time to react are virtually zero.

Take a second to soak that in. Whether you are a fan of socialism or not. 5km per second is bleeping bleeping awesome.

Nvm. I don't know why I bother some days.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'll hypothesise you just learnt something

That's not something to be melancholy about .

a reply to: mSparks43

No, actually I chose not to get into another discussion with someone that refuses to believe they don't make the most amazing world changing systems, and refuses to learn anything.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'll take that to mean you [are starting to] agree with me but don't want to admit it, and are afraid of the implications of being wrong.

feel free to enlighten me with some figures that show I am wrong, or concede.

a reply to: mSparks43

No, I'm just tired of going around with you. I'm not afraid of being wrong. I'm sick of armchair experts that say "I'm not an expert", but are never wrong.

a reply to: Zaphod58

feel free to enlighten me with some figures that show I am wrong, or concede by default.

a reply to: mSparks43

You made the claim. Name the missiles.

a reply to: Zaphod58

what claim?
s400 that's being imported into Iran and China?
48H6E3 for example.
site3f.ru...

ЗУР 48Н6Е3 и 48Н6Е2 с дальностью полета 250 км и 200 км имеют одинаковую компоновку и полуактивные ГСН, работающие по целям со скоростями до 4800 м/с и 2800 м/с соответственно, а также модернизированное адаптивное боевое снаряжение, специально разработанное для повышения эффективности поражения баллистических целей.

=(google translate)

SAM 48N6E3 48N6E2 and with a range of 250 km and 200 km have the same layout and semi-active homing working on targets with speeds up to 4800 m / s and 2800 m / s, respectively, and upgraded the adaptive combat gear specially designed to enhance the effectiveness of ballistic defeat purposes.

a reply to: mSparks43

You missed the most important word right there in your quote.

SAM 48N6E3 48N6E2 and with a range of 250 km and 200 km have the same layout and semi-active homing working on targets with speeds up to 4800 m / s and 2800 m / s, respectively, and upgraded the adaptive combat gear specially designed to enhance the effectiveness of ballistic defeat purposes.

The TARGET is traveling up to mach 15. The TARGET is hypersonic. Not the missile fired.

Good try though.

a reply to: Zaphod58


->edit on 2-5-2015 by mSparks43 because: correction on s400 missile = 4800m/s mach 14

should of left it at mach 7

(actual spec is mach 6)
point still stands though.

Regarding the blackout button, I don't know if they have something like that, but skunkworks developed and is now placing its auto GCAS system on block 40 and up f-16s. Its already saved one pilot in the middle east. Here's what it does...

taking temporary command of the aircraft and executing an automatic recovery maneuver when it detects that an impact with terrain is imminent. The system constantly compares the trajectory of the F-16 with a terrain profile generated from onboard digital terrain elevation data (DTED). If the system detects a threat, an evasion command is issued. If no action is immediately taken by the pilot, the system automatically assumes control (AW&ST, Aug 2, 2010, p. 50). The recovery includes an abrupt roll-to-upright followed by a 5g pull until clearance of the terrain is assured. Auto GCAS can also be overridden by the pilot at any time. The system incorporates a "Pilot Activated Recovery System" (PARS) function which provides a disoriented pilot with a way to manually engage an automated recovery.

a reply to: BlackWidow23

John Stapp survived 46 peak G's... he also was able to survive a sustained 25G force.