Has anyone figured out why some ghost sightings has no legs

reply to post by Nemox42



Hi Nemox

Have to clarify here, for the sake of browsers.

Ghost One: Observed early-1970s. In apartment in old Victorian-era building located on a corner. He 'lived' behind the door. He appeared to be in his late 50s to early 60s. Thin. Fine-boned. My impression was of a shy, insecure person. Wore a hat and long gabardine-looking coat that had seen better days, in 'putty' colour. His skin was a bit putty-coloured too. Bad colouring. Saw him several time a week for approx. 3 years.

It was always the same: unvarying. The door to a rarely-used dining room (which opened into a long hall) was always kept open to let in the light from windows in the far wall. The door was near a corner of the room. When open, a roughly triangular 'space' was thus created between the door and the corner.

Several times a week, I would pull back the door to retrieve the vacuum cleaner, which was kept in this handy, out-of-sight space. And there he'd be .. looking terrified. Pale. Waxen skin. He was really scared. But he tried to smile. He was dressed in clothing of several decades earlier .. maybe 1920s to early 1940s -- roughly the Depression era.

On each occasion, I said to him, silently, 'Excuse me'. He never replied of course. The same occured, exactly as above, when I shortly afterwards replaced the vacuum cleaner.

The vacuum cleaner was kept on the floor in the triangular space behind the door. And if the ghost had been a living person, I would have been replacing the vacuum cleaner on his feet. The ghost's legs faded to nothing below the knee, so in a crazy way, I was not putting the vacuum on his feet, because they weren't there. Nevertheless, I apologised to him, silently, for intruding, etc. As well, I think I apologised to reassure him I meant no harm, because it was obvious he was scared stiff.

Now comes the stranger part: all through those years of daily 'interaction' with the ghost, my conscious mind blocked it out. Yes, I silently said Excuse me and yes, I 'saw' the ghost. But consciously, I did not think to myself each time: ' Gee, I'm talking to a ghost '. No. I retrieved and replaced the vacuum cleaner and excused myself ... but my conscious mind kept it away from me. Immediately after seeing the ghost, I would continue on my way without thinking about it. I believe my conscious mind shielded me from what I was experiencing, for I'm not by any means the 'ghost buster' type and am as easily frightened as anyone else.

I moved from the apartment. Very soon afterwards, my mind presented me with what I'd experienced whilst there. In other words, I now remembered it all very clearly. It wasn't an enormous shock because of course I'd been 'aware yet not fully aware' of what was happening all along. Best explained as things known -- now became much clearer. What did surprise me was the fact I'd coped with the situation whilst at the apartment.

At that point, I arranged to meet the apartment's owners, a middle-aged married couple. We went to dinner and I asked them, politely, about the apartment's history. Had a man died there, I asked. I was considerably younger than they, so this was quite an assertive stance for me to adopt.

A glance passed between the couple, whom I knew very well. I recognised the glance that had passed between them and knew they were deciding whether or not to tell me. Perhaps the fact that I no longer lived in the apartment persuaded them to tell me the truth. By this stage of their lives, they were quite wealthy. But when newly married and just starting out, they said, they'd bought the apartment. It was located on the first floor in a badly run-down corner building which contained a warren of rooms, halls, etc. It had a bad reputation, they said, which they knew from their own childhoods. At one point, it had been an illegal gambling and prostitution den .. in the 1920s or 1930s. But it was affordable.

The husband of the couple recounted how he'd had to scrape off layers of peeling wallpaper and several layers of old paint. He'd had to re-wire the place and put in some new plumbing. This was before he could even begin patching, painting, re-carpeting, etc. And yes, he said .. he'd had to patch up bullet holes .. some in the ceiling and others in walls. He explained that when the place was a gambling den, there had been 'wars' between rival illicit gambling-den czars. And there'd been fights between gamblers, etc. People had died in the apartment, he said. He'd lived in the area when a boy and had heard all the gossip then.

From information provided me, I'm guessing that the following may have occurred: the ghost was in the gambling den when a fight occurred. I suspect the ghost hid behind the door, terrified, sweating, knowing it was just a matter of time before he was discovered. Then, someone opened the door and found him. And killed him. I believe the ghost's expression each time I opened the door (several decades later) was the exact same expression with which he greeted his killer .. an expression of fear mingled with an attempt at a placating smile .. a bid for mercy if you like.

I believe the ghost was of the 'residual' type that you mention --- compelled for some reason to re-live the moments immediately prior to his death. I don't know a great deal about these things, but perhaps the shock he felt immediately prior to and at the point of death (and some experience shock to much greater extent than others) 'locked' him in that moment and prevented him from moving on.

It's my suspicion that the apartment harboured more than one ghost. Yes, it had a 'brooding' nature due to its design, and it was quite dark for the same reason and because of the tall ceilings and long, narrow hall. Nevertheless and in addition, there was always the feeling of 'minds' being there with me, even when I was alone. The rooms were 'dark', even when the lights were on during the day. There wasn't a room you could enter which felt 'empty' even when it clearly was. There was only one room, really, which felt ok .. and strangely enough, it was the room which contained the ghost behind the door. All the other rooms were unpleasant, no matter that I opened the windows and had the lights on in daytime and had cleaned everything fanatically. The hallway felt horrible. But I kept very busy. I blocked a lot out, I realise now. And I suppose I got used to it because I had to.

One room was foul beyond belief .. it had been converted to a laundry-bathroom by the owners mentioned above. But honestly, it felt like a slaughterhouse. It had only one window, high up in a wall. I always had the lights on in there and the radio playing day long, but hated going in, even though the owners had tiled it in lovely tiles, with modern fittings, etc. and big mirrors. I came closer to committing suicide .. spiritual and physical ... in that room, than I care to think upon now. It scares and astonishes me now to realise I managed to live there.

A few years ago, we drove past the building containing that apartment. It had been gutted, prior to redevelopment. The shell remained -- possibly it had been placed under protection order because of its historical significance. From the road, the windows seemed like black holes in the external face. It looked awful. It was being converted into modern apartments. I've read that changes to a building 'release' whatever ghosts/spirits may linger there. Perhaps the ghost behind the door was freed .. or perhaps he's still there somewhere within one of the new apartments.







[edit on 31-3-2008 by Dock6]

Nemoz, I have to go out now, but I'll return to 'Ghost Two' later

reply to post by Nemox42


Without being rude, real evidence of actual ghosts would be required before going any further down this investigatory road, as without knowing that ghosts exist, you simply can't trust any answers given.

Otherwise it's like asking the board what a Yeti's favourite sandwich is - pointless speculation.

Ghost Two

Nemox, Ghost Two appeared more than a decade later, in our ordinary suburban house some 900 kilometres from the Ghost One experience.

The house in which Ghost Two appeared was modern and less than ten years old.

Ghost Two had no connection whatsoever with the house or with the occupants ... apart from the fact (as detailed in previous posts) some of his clothing was temporarily in the house.

Ghost Two stared thoughtfully in the direction of the box which held his clothing, it was later realised.

So, not a residual ghost this time. More a 'semi-aware' ghost.

I didn't see the ghost 'arrive' or depart.

One moment I was alone in the room. Next moment he was there.

I didn't see or notice him depart.

Next morning I awoke and had no memory of the incident. I was busy and remained unaware for a couple of hours.

A friend picked me up at my house as arranged and we travelled by car for approx. 15 minutes. The car stopped at traffic lights. My friend leaned down to do something to the car radio. For some reason, it was at that point that the memory of the ghost returned. I was so shocked by the memory that I began recounting the experience out loud.

Shortly afterwards, we were shown a wedding photo by a woman we knew very superficially. The photo was of her daughter on her wedding day. I immediately recognised the groom as the ghost who'd appeared the night before. My friend prevented me from saying this to the woman, in case it upset her. The woman went on to say that the groom (her son in law) had died suddenly approx. six months before and went on to say that doctors were still attempting to discover why he'd died. The woman then told me that the trousers she'd asked me to sew had belonged to her deceased son in law (the ghost) and not her husband, as I'd previously believed.

The unusual aspect of this experience is the fact that after seeing the ghost, I have no further memories of that night. Obviously I must have tidied up, prepared for bed and gone to sleep. Next morning I had no memory of any of it. So it appears the shock of seeing the ghost knocked out ... what .. my conscious awareness ?

My only memories of that night are of seeing the ghost. It's then a blank until the next morning.

When I saw the ghost, I had no reaction. Didn't cry out or panic (as far as I'm aware). Nothing. I just saw him. And my mind recorded what I saw.

It wasn't until 20 years later (about two years ago) that another memory began to surface. It involves seeing myself sitting on the couch .. from my vantage point of up near the ceiling ! A few times, when I've been very afraid, I've 'left my body'. And some of those times, I've been up high, looking at the 'me' below.

The new memories of Ghost Two showed me sitting on the couch, unmoving .. with Ghost Two approaching me. He was leaning forward towards me with his hands stretched out like claws and an unpleasant expression on his face. The new memories (seen from where I was, up near the ceiling) reveal the ghost to have had a balding patch at the crown (back) of his head. From my actual physical location on the couch, I could not see this balding patch.

As I say, this later memory emerged about two years ago .. some twenty years after the event. I expected more of the later memory to surface, but it hasn't. I think the little 'extra' I was shown scared me and made my memory close up again.

Writing this now, I suspect that the later-emerged memory is true and it happened. And I think the shock it caused me resulted in my mind closing down so that after the ghost left, I must have tidied up the house and prepared for bed whilst still in shock. This might explain why I had no memory of the incident the following morning, until it returned suddenly when I was in the car with my friend. It's one of the more mysterious incidents in my life.

I don't know why Ghost Two was antagonistic towards me. Nor do I know what he did .. or how I reacted or what I experienced ... if he continued his frightening progress towards me as I sat helplessly on the couch. Obviously he scared me literally 'out of my mind' (to the point I robotically tidied the house, dressed for bed, brushed my teeth etc. with no conscious awareness of what I was doing). Maybe Ghost Two held me responsible for his death .. considering some ofhis clothing was in my home.

I know I'm going to be pretty shaken up if the full memory of that night ever returns.

Whatever the case, Ghost Two appears to confirm that some ghosts are active, much as I'd prefer this not to be the case. Appears to confirm that whilst not having full grasp of their situation or what caused it .. some ghosts are capable of vast travel and of interacting with the living (again, much as I'd prefer this not to be the case).

It seems from the above experience that Ghost Two didn't seem to fully realise that he was dead. And whilst he was able to 'track' his earthly possessions very accurately, he was at the same time unable to reach the correct conclusions. Nevertheless, as the later memories appear to suggest, Ghost Two had not become full of 'love and understanding of all things' after death. Instead, he was hostile towards me, although I'd played absolutely no role in his death or the dispersal of his earthly property.

For twenty years after the incident, all I remembered was seeing the ghost as he stood thoughtfully on the other side of the room. Whilst I was in the process of seeing him, I had no concious thoughts at all. But later, when the memory returned (in the car) and later again, when I thought about it .. he seemed to me to have been a very nice individual, based on his appearance. He had a gentle, intelligent face and appeared to be the sort of person who wouldn't say much but when they did, it would be with the best intentions.

I tend to believe that I was correct in this assumption. I think he probably was a very nice type of person in real life.

However, the memories which emerged more than 20 years later reveal that even so, he was capable of anger and violence. As even the nicest people are, on occasion.

The reason I'm delving into this here is because it may explain accounts of deliberately violent and frightening 'ghost attacks' which some people have reported.

Let's put ourselves for a moment in a ghost's place. One moment they were alive. May have been in love, very happy and looking forward to the future. Next moment, they might find themselves in a dream or nightmare from which there is no exit, no matter how hard they try to 'wake up' and escape it. They might try repeatedly to communicate with those they love, only to be ignored. They might see their loved ones crying and attending a funeral .. yet the ghost may not (for reasons we don't understand) be able to grasp that the funeral was theirs and the tears on their behalf.

So they wander through the rooms of their house. They go to work. It all feels 'odd and strange' to them. No one will reply to them. They are ignored wherever they go. Their spouses and children and colleagues don't seem to see or hear them. It would be frightening and saddening. They might see nightmare forms around them .. people and 'things' they want nothing to do with ... yet they can't wake up and get away from these things. They have nowhere to go. No-one to talk to. No-one to turn to. They would see their families and friends living their lives and leaving them (ghosts) behind. The ghosts would wonder why people were being so cruel to them. Their spouses might marry someone else.

Maybe it explains some ghosts' anger towards the living or towards people who live in their former homes ? Misdirected anger from ghosts who's 'existence' has driven them half out of their minds ?

So much remains unexplained.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Nemox42

 

Without being rude, real evidence of actual ghosts would be required before going any further down this investigatory road, as without knowing that ghosts exist, you simply can't trust any answers given.

Otherwise it's like asking the board what a Yeti's favourite sandwich is - pointless speculation.

Dave420 ... please accept my invitation to go and obtain 'real evidence of actual ghosts'. The entire world would be exceedingly grateful. For thousands of years, people have been seeing and interacting with ghosts, yet unable to provide the tangible proof you seem to expect will be provided you here on ATS.

By all means .. please gather the 'real evidence' and while you're about it, perhaps you could collect some 'real evidence' of anomalies on Mars and the Moon and some 'real evidence' re: 9/11 and some 'real evidence' of Bigfoot and UFOs and extraterrestrials. Oh, just grab a bag full of 'real evidence' about any of the discussions here on ATS and hurry back to the threads and enlighten us all, please.

Or perhaps we should apologise to you ? Did you believe -- when you registered with ATS -- that it was the responsibility of people here to provide you with 'proof' and 'real evidence' ? For free ?

(Hint ... for 'real evidence', perhaps you should join Popular Mechanics, or a Woodworking or cookery forum ? )

Great posts, Dock. Thanks for the additional information regarding our encounters. Your one brave person to live in an apartment like that, and its obvious Dock that you have the 3rd eye. You might be right about there being more then one ghost or entity in that apartment, especially if it had a history of violence and corruption. I don't know if you believe in the concept of Evil or Good, but I believe that through emotions people can attract darker entities. Places like battlefields or places that have history of violence and death, they seem to draw these entities in. That must have been one scary thing, to suddenly remember that ghost number two actually was trying to attack you. (maybe trying to get your attention). And to think for years you lived in an apartment with a ghost living in your closet, that's freaky. The story is very interesting, whoever killed that person came into that room and he was hiding behind the door. Obviously everytime you open that door, he probably relived the events that happen to him.
As I told you before, I was once a non-believer, but when you got the # staring right in your face, its kinda hard not to believe. As from what i gather in your stories, Dock. The ghost hiding behind the door, is probably residual, I really don't think the ghost is seeing you everytime that door opens, if you get my drift. As for ghost number two, obviously he was aware you were there, since he came at you. But you said both of these encounters both didn't have legs, so they leaves me to believe that residual hauntings, and intelligent haunts, have no say on what type of ghost manifests. This much I can deduce a conclusion too. That leaves the theory that these ghosts appear to us, the way they wanted to be seen or identity themselves in life, Alot of times like you said ghosts don't manifest in the clothes they were buried in. They usually appear as what they identified themselves in life, that includes missing limbs and wounds, they might have suffer in death. This theory seems more solid, could it be that it requires a large amount of energy to manifest themselves in your realm, and that's why we see ghosts sometimes as corporal or missing legs or limbs, that could explain why sometimes we can see ghosts as orbs or mists, or shadows, or even full body.

reply to post by dave420


My friend, Just because you haven't seen something or experience something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Who here can prove a higher being like God exists, no one here can I bet, but how many people on this planet believes in a higher power? The mass majority. I'm sure rick you never seen 10 million dollars in cash before, does that mean 10 million dollars doesn't exist in this world. There are some things even science can't explain or prove, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Its more like it hasn't been discovered.

"some ghosts are capable of vast travel and of interacting with the living (again, much as I'd prefer this not to be the case)"

Dock - I believe this is true too. But the question is how do they travel, and from where? Traveling through time and space is something man hasn't even scratch the surface of. With all our machines and technology, we still can't move or dematerialize 1,000 miles away, Whatever Ghosts or spirits are, its obvious they are on another plane of existence, But to fully figure out ghosts and spirits, might actually hold the key to understanding the universe and reality.

Another theory (although, I have nothing to back this up with really, I'm just speculating) is that ghosts are hallucinations, and the reasons the legs (or other body parts) are sometimes 'inviable' is because the brain hasn't made a complete image - you know, like when you look at something while looking at you hand, but focusing on the object behind it and your finger seems to disappear?

I'll ponder about this some more, and come back with something that might back it up - I'm afraid at this moment in time I shall be off to bed though.

reply to post by Dock6


You're the one making the extraordinary claims, so you provide the extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof is on you.

If we've been "interacting" with Ghosts for thousands of years, why is there no real evidence? All we can manage is a few blurry photos or some video that can be explained away easily? Surely that says something to your more logical side.

And no, real evidence isn't only in the realm of popular mechanics et al, but anywhere rational debate is supposed to occur. I can see you're past that point and just want a fan-club to pander to your opinions.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Dock6

 

You're the one making the extraordinary claims, so you provide the extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof is on you.

If we've been "interacting" with Ghosts for thousands of years, why is there no real evidence? All we can manage is a few blurry photos or some video that can be explained away easily? Surely that says something to your more logical side.

And no, real evidence isn't only in the realm of popular mechanics et al, but anywhere rational debate is supposed to occur. I can see you're past that point and just want a fan-club to pander to your opinions.

Ahh .... poor Dave ... your final sentence gives you away and reveals your motive for blundering into this thread.

Jealousy ! Poor Dave appears to be jealous and desirous of some attention.

Well, Dave ... your jealousy is something you'll have to learn to deal with. Not my problem. Your problem.

Now, as far as 'burden of proof' is concerned, my advice to you would be to read the thread title. Obviously you failed to do that.

Then read it again. And again.

You'll note that no-one is inviting Dave to pronounce whether or not he believes in the existence and reality of ghosts.

Instead, if you do finally manage to grasp the meaning of the thread title, you'll see that this thread presumes people already know of the existence and reality of ghosts.

As the thread makes clear .. the OP seeks to learn why some ghosts have no legs below the knee.

NO-one is required to convince 'Dave' of the reality of ghosts.

NO-one is interested in convincing 'Dave' of anything.

So seeing Dave professes to be concerned with 'proof' ... here's something to keep you occupied, Dave: swat up and when you have conclusive proof that ghosts do not exist ... drop by some day and maybe we'll find time to listen. But I warn you now ... you'll really need to do your homework before you (whoever you imagine yourself to be) will succeed in convincing people who already KNOW --- from personal experience --- that ghosts most certainly do 'exist'.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Dock6]

You've a terrifically active mind, Nemox ! Can see you put a lot of energy into solving problems and are prepared to think in every direction ! It's the attitude I admire most, to be honest. I think that's why so many tv-ghost productions fail to hold the interest of viewers after three or four episodes. It's because they trudge over 'safe ground' as far as theories are concerned, instead of attacking the issue from every imaginable angle the way you do until something shakes loose.

That's the thing with the paranormal --- once you've experienced a ghost sighting, or precognitive dream or vision, or 'coincidence'-filled event which defies explanation --- you're hooked for life. Not like hobbies or other interests which you might throw yourself into for a few months or years and then abandon basically forever. Uh uh -- the paranormal challenges everything we thought we believed. And the answers are few to none. Yet by far the longest part of our 'life' ... eternity ... depends on unlocking the mysteries of what's termed the paranormal. Physical death claims us all. Some are content to believe they'll end up somewhere white and fluffy, all problems solved.

But is that how it is after physical death ?

If so, why are pretty convincing physical representations of those already dead, inposing on the lives of the living ?

Someone dies. Loved ones mourn. Someone else tries to 'make it better'. " They're at peace now, " they say gently .. " They're beyond care and worry."

But ARE they ?

Let's see if we can come up with an approximation of the 'peace' the physically dead are claimed to enjoy. How about lying comfortably on the sand at a sun-drenched and isolated luxury-resort ? I've found that to be pretty peaceful. Someone else takes care of all your needs and security. All you need do is lay back and zone-out. The sun permeates your body and mind while the soft hiss of the waves on the shore lulls you gently to a mind-state that's absolute bliss.

The surprising thing is .. you don't think. The mind goes on holiday too. You'd expect that just lying there in the sun would force your mind to occupy itself .. but it doesn't. Tranquil and peaceful don't even begin to describe it. The very last thing to occur to you would be the desire to 'drop back in' on the people at the office !

Same when you're unconscious for whatever reason. It's nothingness. As a rule, the first thing people ask when they regain consciousness is, ' How long was I out ? '. Because when you're unconscious, you could be 'out' for 30 seconds or 30,000 years .. you have no way of knowing.

From these examples, we suspect physical death or 'eternity' feel the same .. only better. And doubtless it's examples such as these which have caused people to believe that death means 'bliss', 'unknowingness', 'oblivion', etc.

And probably, it's when these beliefs are shattered by experience (thus reality) of ghosts, that makes ghosts both frightening and fascinating.

Because we're all going to die. And at bottom, we (most of us) want to believe that we'll be 'safe' after we die. We don't want to be hanging behind doors for 50 or 500 years, forced to relive the nightmare of our own death. We don't want to be in a position where we're so clueless about what's happened to us that we invade strangers' homes because we've learned (somehow) that some of our old clothes are there.

People have been seeing ghosts since the first humans walked the earth. The rich and the poor, the simple and the sophisticated .. they've all seen them, and most have done so spontaneously .. and been terrified/intrigued as result.

Organised religion's been aware of this since the first religion came into being. They either know the truth and don't want us to know. Or .. they know no more than we do. But organised religion's about control, so they attempt to impose their control over what people experience.

After WW2, so many people from all over Britain in particular informed their clergy that they'd seen the ghost of their loved-one/s. The clergy was inundated with such accounts. Too many to sweep under the carpet with the usual platitudes of, ' It's just your imagination .. you dreamed it .. it's grief that caused it ' .. etc.

The people said: ' Not this time baby. I know what I saw. Don't YOU try to tell me I didn't. Now -- you claim to have all the answers --- let's hear them ! '

People were not going to be fobbed off. They'd knew they'd seen their dead loved-one/s. Some had even spoken with them. The clamour for answers refused to die down.

Finally, the Anglican Church appointed Archbishop Cosmo Lang to head a committee charged with investigating people's accounts. It took some years. The Church later admitted it had stacked the deck in favour of 'ghosts do not exist', by selecting people from its midst who were least likely to believe in ghosts.

In the end, the Anglican Church suppressed its findings for an alleged 30 years .. in the hope that most interested parties would by that time be dead themselves.

Finally however, it was revealed (very quietly, no fanfare) that of the 12 committee members (many with bias 'against') TEN had reached the conclusion that yes ... the dead can and do and have communicated with the living. The remaining 2 committee members declared themselves 'on the fence .. for the sake of balance '. (must give credit to the Anglicans for at least making the effort. The RC church evaded and denied the issue altogether.)

For more about Cosmo Lang and the Anglican Church's research into ghosts, see Michael Roll .. online or via Rense.com. Will try to put up link later.





[edit on 1-4-2008 by Dock6]

I have a therory on why ghosts look like they do.

When we see ourselves in dreams, we see ourselves as we want to be like, how we look, feel and act, rather than what we may actually be like in real life. Even though I am thirty I still imagine myself in dreams as being 12 to about 16 years old, the list of difference goes on. Its the same when I am dreaming about people I know, they dont always look and act as they really do, but I still know it is them.

What if some ghosts do this, especially the ones who have died horribly but are shown with no wounds. Maybe they think they are dreaming or they just appear as they would like to look.

I think we have a mental image of how we think we are, our looks, our characteristics etc. Maybe this is what some dead people adopt as their appearence or image they show to the living.

I hope that makes some sort of sense. I am extreamly interested in the paranormal but have no real experiences to relate to.

This is also my first post here on ATS, so please be a little forgiving!

Ive read before that the plane where ghosts exist is about half a metre higher than here. Also.. they could be floating about just like you do when your dreaming, when I think about it, I float/hover about in my dreams a good 80% of the time and this is just above the ground. Other than that, I'm not sure.

Great thread..... I saw a ghost as an adolescent and this has really got me thinking...

I was in a bedroom shared with my sister when I awoke in the early hours of the morning... I would be about 13 years of age. Staring at me across the room was a spirit... it was clearly there, head and shoulders with hollows where eyes would have been. i felt it staring into me, there was no body below the shoulders.

I was terrified, shut my eyes and screamed. My mother came running into the bedroom and when I eventually opened my eyes it was gone. My mother said it was the end of the dream i was having... i knew that I had seen something very real.

Years later when I had children of my own and was talking to my mother about this, she told me that the house we then lived in always felt uncomfortable and she had always hated having to clean our bedroom as there had been an atmosphere and it was always cold. She knew that I had seen something, but was trying to calm me down.

I read once that the spirit dimension is several feet higher than our dimension and when we cross over worlds spirits often appear several feet higher. It is so interesting that many people have experience this missing of legs.

I will keep my eye on this thread for other ideas of reasons why this happens.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by easystreet]

reply to post by afraidofthedark



'Afraidofthedark' ... hi and welcome


You've raised some interesting points and what you've suggested appears to have been verfied numerous times by people who've reported seeing decased loved-ones who've died in accidents, in war, etc.

Some, but not all, appear minus the wounds and other disturbing evidence of their manner of death.

Others however, have appeared complete with such evidence. So we just don't know who makes the decision as to how a ghost will appear to the living.

I've been wondering (re: some ghosts' non-visible lower limbs) if it's connected with the fact ghosts are no longer 'connected' to the earth itself. It's said we humans are electro-magnetic. And of course, it's said we're subject to gravity. Maybe the earth 'grounds' living-humans ?

Ghosts however, aren't subject to physical laws, surely ?

As to ghosts' appearance : the ghost who appeared in my locked home (possibly drawn by some of his clothing) looked exactly as he appeared in the wedding photo which I was shown the next day.

Having no better information to date, I'm tending towards a theory whereby we may act as 'receivers', in much the same way as tv and radio, etc. Some of us, at least. In other words, it may be that the ghost does not literally 'appear' ... but may transmit its presence in the same way a tv or radio station transmits data. Our tv and radio are 'tuned' to specific transmissions and 'interpret' those transmissions which in turn are displayed as lifelike moving images on our tv screen.

Our tv requires to be tuned-in before it can receive the data, otherwise what appears on our tv-screen is fuzzy nothing.

So, it may be that some of us are 'tuned in' and able to interpret data emanating from ghosts --- in other words, some of us see images which are lifelike representations of a deceased person's appearance.

It may actually be that we're surrounded by ghosts (data) 24/7, but that Nature has tuned us so that 99% of the time, we aren't aware of their presence. After all, it would be very distracting if we were aware of millions of ghosts. It's sufficiently distracting being surrounded by millions of living humans, as any city-goer will tell you. Even being in a crowded bus or office can be very stressful for some.

As well, it may be Natural Law that the living interact with the living --- whilst they are themselves living (perhaps .. just a suggestion).

My grandfather was an undertaker and his sons (including my father) assisted him at various times. In my grandfather's case, there were epidemics (before today's miracle drugs) that sometimes killed half the members in a family. The things my father and grandfather saw would curl your hair. And it was their firm conviction that the living should steer clear of the spirit world.

I didn't go looking for interaction with ghosts and spirits -- but there's not a lot you can do about it when it happens to you. No point lying and saying it didn't happen, even if you'd prefer it hadn't. And once it has happened, you naturally seek answers. This is how the vast majority commence their interest in the paranormal.

Have to dash away now, but mention of my grandfather's trade reminded me of an incident which occurred in 2001. Our offices sat above a mortuary / funeral home close to the centre of town. To begin with, I wasn't aware of this. Ours was just one of a dozen or so office-suites on the first floor. Only when exiting via the rear stairs in order to reach the car-parking area, did I notice the big black hearses at the back of the building. In response to my enquiry, people I worked with told me there was a mortuary beneath us. It didn't bother me. I was busy and told myself mortuaries are a fact of life like any other, etc.

One day, I received a call from the manager, asking me to go down to the real-estate agents downstairs to collect a key to an empty 'suite'. The manager was expecting a consignment of computers and needed temporary storage. The estate-agents had apparently offered him the empty suite for that purpose. My manager asked me to look at the empty suite to see if it would be suitable.

The estate-agent grabbed the key and said he'd show the suite to me. We mounted the usual staircase and he stopped at a doorway I'd passed dozens of times without noticing it. Estate agent opened the door and waved me through. Without exaggeration, I almost gagged after sticking my head through the door.

It's important to add that I had absolutely NO preconceived ideas about the suite. There hadn't been time. Just the phone call from my manager, followed by the agent opening the door. I'd fully expected to simply look into an ordinary room which I'd assumed before the door was opened, would be suitable for storage for a few days. All I'd intended to look for were damp spots or leaks, which might have affected computers.

Instead, the moment the door was opened for me, it was as if a horrible, unsuspected world had been revealed. I should have been more cautious, but then what reason did I have to be cautious .. it was just a room.

But it wasn't 'just a room'. Indescribable really. Anything I write will most likely sound an exaggeration. Yet nothing I write could actually convey the horror. Inside that room was vile. It was immediate. As if dozens of 'people' were 'hanging' there, in space. And as if they reacted differently. Some seemed to be asking for help. Others were angry, sullen, hostile, brooding. Some seemed to be very old -- been there a long time.

The room was filled with these things, all seeming to be suspended in mid-air. A lot were close to the walls.

I reeled backwards, unsure of what I'd 'seen'. The room was empty, of course. These 'people' weren't really visible. I was 'in two minds' .. seeing them yet knowing they weren't really visible. The estate agent obviously sensed nothing, although I noticed he didn't step inside. He just seemed impatient to have it over with.

For a minute or so, I remained there in the doorway, trying to get my bearings. Clearly, it was an empty room .. with some very odd features, such as a staircase that came up from beneath the floor somewhere .. and ended in mid-air !

I couldn't breathe. Wasn't going to breath in the foul air of that room. The loathsome atmosphere repelled me. But there was an awful mournfulness as well. I couldn't stand it. Stepped back and gestured for the estate agent to close the door. Thanked him. Went back and phoned the manager. Told him I'd viewed the room as he asked, etc.

Later, I mentioned the room to someone in the office .. told them what I'd 'seen' and felt. They replied that nothing would get them into that room and said I should have refused the manager's instruction to go there. Of course, it was then that I was reminded that the empty suite sat directly above the room in the mortuary where the morticians prepared corpses for burial.

Dramatic though all that sounds, it's reality, isn't it ? We're all going to die and our corpses will mostly end up being 'processed' before burial. Just a fact of life.

The fact is though, that room above the mortuary did appear to me to be filled with ghosts or spirits. My eyes 'saw' them hanging there in mid-air. And as someone pointed out to me, the mortuary received many who died homeless, or in accidents (vehicle and drug-related) etc. as well as ordinary members of the community.

The only thing that explains what I 'saw' and sensed in that empty room is that some of those who died confused, lonely, distraught or in alcholic or drug induced paranoia, etc. may have 'attached' themselves to the building (the room above their actual corpse) rather than 'move on'.

Can only hope someone helps them.

Originally posted by Clarky
Ive read before that the plane where ghosts exist is about half a metre higher than here. Also.. they could be floating about just like you do when your dreaming, when I think about it, I float/hover about in my dreams a good 80% of the time and this is just above the ground. Other than that, I'm not sure.

Clarky ... how weird ! Synchronicity at work !!

While I was composing my last post .. . you were posting this !

You mentioned 'floating above the floor' ... and I was writing about ghosts floating 'in mid-air' in the empty office suite !

I didn't read your post until after posing mine. So in effect, we were writing about the same phenomenon at the same time !

Thank you for the confirmation !!!

[edit on 1-4-2008 by Dock6]

Originally posted by easystreet
Great thread..... I saw a ghost as an adolescent and this has really got me thinking...

I was in a bedroom shared with my sister when I awoke in the early hours of the morning... I would be about 13 years of age. Staring at me across the room was a spirit... it was clearly there, head and shoulders with hollows where eyes would have been. i felt it staring into me, there was no body below the shoulders.

I was terrified, shut my eyes and screamed. My mother came running into the bedroom and when I eventually opened my eyes it was gone. My mother said it was the end of the dream i was having... i knew that I had seen something very real.

Years later when I had children of my own and was talking to my mother about this, she told me that the house we then lived in always felt uncomfortable and she had always hated having to clean our bedroom as there had been an atmosphere and it was always cold. She knew that I had seen something, but was trying to calm me down.

I read once that the spirit dimension is several feet higher than our dimension and when we cross over worlds spirits often appear several feet higher. It is so interesting that many people have experience this missing of legs.

I will keep my eye on this thread for other ideas of reasons why this happens.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by easystreet]

Oh, good grief ! Just read this, by 'easystreet' ...


And again ... 'easystreet' was writing about ghosts 'floating above the ground' at the same time I was in the process of composing my post which also mentions ghosts floating 'mid-air'.

Amazing !

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, or if it is of any use, but in traditional Japanese woodblock prints and in traditional Japanese theatre, ghosts are depicted as without feet (in theatre, this created need for some curious innovations--I heard something about rolling platforms, like a roller skate, once). So, I guess even historically this has been something people notice about ghosts. Which, well, isn't very helpful, but it is at least an interesting tidbit.

reply to post by Dock6


It's impossible to prove a negative, but it's possible to prove a positive. It's up to you, or anyone else who's claiming ghosts do exist, to prove it if you want this discussion to be anything else than random baseless speculations being passed around.

I'm interested in the paranormal, and people spouting this nonsense is hurting the field. No-one's going to learn anything if we pile guesswork on top of guesswork and try to get to the bottom of this phenomenon.

You asking me to prove ghosts don't exist is ridiculously illogical, naive, and betrays just how caught up you are in this fantasy. You want me to prove you wrong, when you've already proved yourself wrong by demonstrating just how willing you are to forego logical analysis when claiming to want to learn something.

Pathetic.